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Think before you speak

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by test drive, May 9, 2017.

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  1. SHOOT1SAM

    SHOOT1SAM Member

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    Well done test drive.

    One of the single most expensive handguns I've ever bought, over $1K near the end of 1999, is a Kimber Ultra Elite (predecessor to the CDP). The extractor broke in less than 300 rounds. It was repaired and has been 100% ever since.

    My Hi-Point carbine broke when I shoved a 15-round aftermarket magazine in it...VERY harshly. Hi-Point repaired it...and sent me an extra magazine, along with an apology:confused: for my troubles. Like the Kimber, it has been 100% ever since. It has also, ONLY, ever, had 2 single drops of oil on the bolt...as far as maintenance goes.

    Sam
     
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  2. LawHoc

    LawHoc Member

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    That was the nicest post I have seen on a gun forum. As I know you know, your kindness is self-rewarding. You lost nothing; you created great good.
     
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  3. LawHoc

    LawHoc Member

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    I feel confident that the lady, long ago, understood what OP did for her (and did quietly). Hence the regular X-mas cards.
     
  4. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    It's how some people can only afford a Mosin rifle for defense and others tell them relentlessly how much better an AR-15 would be.

    Well you have no idea what that person may be going through and who they might need to support.

    And you know what they say about the man (or woman) with only one gun...
     
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  5. .308 Norma

    .308 Norma Member

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    While I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said, Cooldill, that "man (or woman) with only one gun" thing assumes the person has had the time and resources to practice and learn how to use that gun well. It doesn't assume that person did practice and learn to use that gun well because it's the only gun they could afford. My suspicions are that in this day in age, the opposite is true.
    IMO, that "Beware of the person with one gun..." thing is just a cliché. A good one, but just a cliché.:)
     
  6. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Tooshay.
     
  7. Hokkmike

    Hokkmike Member

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    You are good man.
     
  8. sarge83

    sarge83 Member

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    I have a friend who works part time at my Dad's small business. He cuts many yards in the summer time, and when not working for my Dad works part time for another small business cleaning at night. He has a high school education, is divorced and paying child support and works his butt off. He lives in a bad neighborhood with a drug house next door where lots of wild scenes occur. He had $100 saved up for a gun and bought a new hi-point from a local gun/pawn shop, he knows the owner, and asked me about them. I told him the hi-points are heavy, clunky, I have never shot one but from every thing I have read and from people I know who own one, they say they go bang reliably, have you practiced with it? Yes it works and I can hit my target. Put you some hollow points through it and make sure it functions and you are good to go.

    The hi-point is all he can afford. This has nothing to do with political correctness, just common courtesy. I told him the truth as I knew it, I didn't do it acting like a jaskass. I didn't trash his choice, just the truth and he was fine with what I said. Had his piece not worked reliably I would have suggested he trade it for a break top .12 gauge shotty, something he could afford. It is easy to say spend more money and buy brand X, but when you don't have it to spend you get what you can afford. If he had a Bryco and it worked reliably and he could afford it he is better off than nothing. A snob is a snob is a snob, whether it is guns, cars, houses etc... The original poster did good.
     
  9. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Member

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    I recall when I took my SC CWP class years ago. Before we left the classroom to go to the range, the instructor asked if anyone was planning to take the qualification with a Hi-Point or any other cheap gun, because they had a loaner Glock 22 to use instead.

    Curious that the instructor didn't question any of the many rimfires many students were using for the qualifications. There was a guy with a Browning Buck Mark in the lane next to me whose pistol was constantly malfunctioning and holding up the class.
     
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  10. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    ^^ Heck, I'm sure we could find some instructors who would not have approved the Rossi revolver the OP traded to the client. I'm glad he wasn't one of them.
     
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  11. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    Then by your logic, you are a snob too. My whole point is that people should be aware of the exact truth that you too accept. That there are better tools than HiPoints. The mere sharing of information. No insults, no judgments. Who said anything about looking down on people??? We're talking about guns, not judging people, which is exactly what you're doing when you throw around the word "snob". Of course, popular culture and our former president make that fashionable. I don't know why people attach so much emotion to their choice in equipment. When I was young, I was ignorant about such things and bought cheap scopes. I ascribed to the idea that you get what you can afford. Guess what? Those cheap scopes failed me. In effect, I wasted enough money on cheap scopes to have bought a couple good ones. It seems that everyone MUST learn this lesson the hard way, which is unfortunate and EXACTLY the reason for the Benjamin Franklin quote in my signature.


    Regardless of what's happening in someone's life or their financial situation, people are entitled to the truth. They shouldn't be beat over the head with it or be insulted over it either. Should a budding mechanic labor under the illusion that his cheap Chinese tools are the best thing since sliced bread or should he know that he should be planning on upgrading whenever possible? Same concept.


    What people can and can't afford is often a matter of choice. Those who can't "afford" more can also not "afford" to waste money on crap either. I go round and round about this with one of my friends who is undeniably what you would call "cheap". He's not frugal or careful with his money, he's just cheap. He'll often waste a dollar to save a dime. I've seen him pay $30 for something because it was cheap when he could've paid $60 for something good. The $30 item didn't last very long but the $60 item would've lasted for years, way out of proportion to the cost. Which was the wiser investment? If you don't have $60 to spend, you don't have $30 to waste.


    Quoted again for posterity.
     
  12. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

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    And telling someone who bought a Hi Point that they bought a POS, because you wouldn't be caught dead with one, is being a snob. Hi Points may be inexpensive but have a history of being a viable solution for someone who cannot afford anything more. Making someone feel bad for a choice they made due to finances isn't the best way to point out "the exact truth", as you put it. You have failed to point out the "exact truth" of buying a Hi Point.
    Your words. So, for about $150 please share the "exact truth" about her being able to protect herself and please do away with the "find a nice, used police trade-in S&W with cosmetic issues but still works great" line. How is someone who is ignorant in the gun world supposed to do this? I know, she can go down to her local gun shop and trust the guy behind the counter to sell her the best gun he has for $150. Well, come to think of it, he may have done just that with the Hi Point.

    For the record, I have never owned a Hi Point nor do I plan to ever buy one. I have been fortunate. However, if my world came crashing down and all I had was $150 to buy a gun for self defense I would have no problem buying a Hi Point.
     
  13. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    And who did that? Seems to me t hat all the character judgments are coming from your side.


    And who did that?


    So you agree?

    I never said there were better options for $150. Or even implied it. Isn't that the point?


    I don't know, how did you do it? How did YOU come to the conclusion that there are better options than the HiPoint? I did it by learning all I could, one step at a time. Why would you deny that knowledge to others?


    Nor would I but I would also be doing it with both eyes open and saving my pennies toward something better. Which is all I suggest, having the knowledge that there are better tools for the job and the commitment to obtain them. What's wrong with that? I think the lives of myself and my loved ones are worth whatever I have to do to equip myself the best way I can. If I had to walk to town to get a gallon of milk to save gas, pick up beer cans, give up cable TV, cell phone service, take odd jobs or work weekends, that's what I'd do. Been there, done that. I paid for my first reloading press by working a job I really didn't want to, with nothing but work release convicts. You guys want to act as if anyone who thinks one should own something better than a HiPoint is a trust fund brat. I'm talking about a $250-$300 S&W or Ruger but you act like I'm suggesting a $5000 custom 1911 made from meteorites. Yet none of you owns or carries a HiPoint, which makes you kinda hypocritical.
     
  14. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

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    This is what it is all about.
    This is what you posted.
    It is obvious that you don't get the gyst of this thread.
    There is no need for me to further justify my comments since we seem to be talking about different things.
    I get the thread, you don't.
     
  15. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    test drive:

    It was really nice to read about your actions on that day of the class, and your favor to her is very commendable.
     
  16. Mike J

    Mike J Member

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    You did right giving her a pistol she felt confident with. I am curious what your experience with Hi Point firearms has been. I was under the impression that they were cheap & ugly but worked. I came close to buying one once There was a guy at a gun show with a pile of them NIB selling them for $99 IIRC. This was about 10 years ago. I thought about it for a minute & decided not to buy though because I didn't really want one. I would have been buying it just because it was cheap.
     
  17. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    I never put down anyone's personal choice for a self defense firearm. I don't walk in their shoes. Hi Points are cheap and that is probably one of the most affordable guns. Despite jokes, a Hi Point is STILL better than a stick. Or a knife. Whenever I taught classes, I taught how to shoot better on anything brought. I spent lots of time on Google and youtube learning how to mess around with different types of firearms to teach other students. I learned how to take apart a Glock long before I ever saw one or shot one.

    Good on you OP for stepping up and showing a good Samaritan face of the gun community.
     
  18. lysanderxiii

    lysanderxiii Member

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    Pardon me for asking, but what if time were a critical factor?

    If a woman on the lower economic scale (i.e, poor) just left an abusive relationship and needed protection now, as in that night? How would "saving pennies" work in that situation?

    If it right to rob someone of their confidence just because they buy low-end off the bat?
     
  19. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    From my own perspective, the guns involved are secondary to the original post. Something was said by the OP that caused a set-back to the woman. OP took action to correct this and restore her confidence. Teaching skills and instilling confidence in those abilities is the goal of every teachers, trainer or instructor..
     
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  20. PegLegPeat

    PegLegPeat Member

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    Test Drive Sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Thanks for your kindness to this young lady and reminder to us all in the thread title. I have personally owned and carried a Hi-point C9. Due to it's utter reliability I never got to test the warranty or customer service. Only mantenance I did was swab the bore, spray on some rem-oil and wipe it off. I never dissasembled it. I probably put 2 or 3k round through it. It served for a period of years when I felt like I could not afford another pistol. When I could, I sold it (for 60$, I think I paid 99$, so not too bad of a loss) and bought a better gun. Several others I know have done the same. I do not personally think they are any uglier than a glock. They are both blocky and black. They do have all the ergonomics of a brick though.....
     
  21. test drive

    test drive Member

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    Please this was not ment to be a "stab" at high point. I have owned one of their 9mm carbines since 2015. It has been a fun and reliable range gun. As I said in my post that I gave my opinion based on what I hade seen through the years. I have had almost every make and model come through my class and everything from colt to S&W to Ruger or what have you has the occasional malfunction. But my observation has noted that high point and newer Taurus revolvers seem to have more than others. This is not a hit on Taurus as I have a PT92 and a older ss protector that have been great. Some people base their opinion on what they have heard or what thy think makes a bad firearm such as apirance or construction such as a large Zamak slide. Again there has been many high points that have had no problem completing the course of fire with scores of 100% . The particular pistol in original post had functioning problems plain and simple. A person with experience my have been able to correct and finish qualification with said gun but because she was convinced the gun was sub-par she lost her focus and doubts and frustration consumed her. I agree it's OK to point out a weakness with equipment someone may have but there is a wright way and a wrong way unfortunately I chose the wrong way. I interjected to much personal opinion when I should just have presented the facts from my observations. Would I suggest a High Point as a cc weapon? Yes if that's what you could afford. Do I think it is a GOOD choice for a cc? No. BUT, I really do enjoy my Cabine ! Also thanks for all the kind remarks.
     
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  22. ElPasoCounty

    ElPasoCounty Member

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    Good on you OP.

    There are too many Ford, Chevy, Dodge, M70, M700, and M77 debates in the world.
     
  23. TomJ
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    TomJ Contributing Member

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    I didn't take it that way, and it looks like most others didn't either. We've all misspoke, but you went above and beyond what you needed to do to make it right. You did a pretty generous thing for that lady.
     
  24. JONWILL

    JONWILL Member

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    That has been my experience also. I think most people who bash them haven't owned one. I talked to a person in the firearms manufacturing business, he told me that 90+ percent of guns will never have more than 200 rounds through them. The Hi Point will easily go though that. They probably won't make it 5000 rounds but they are a good gun for people who can't afford a Smith, Ruger or other higher brand guns.
     
  25. Beach Bum

    Beach Bum Member

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    ...You Sir Are a Grand Example...................of a Gentleman.....
     
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