Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Thinking about BP revolvers

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Soundtrackzz, Jul 22, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Soundtrackzz

    Soundtrackzz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Harrisonburg VA. Louisville KY
    Hey guys ive been thinking about getting a BP revolver for awhile now. Its either a BP remington or a ruger blackhawk for a "working" revolver. By that i mean field and fun carry. Im wondering how much all of the other stuff besides the revolver itself will cost me, and what exactly do i need. Ive heard BP's are very accurate, i dont know if this is true or not but i dont see how they could be more accurate than a modern cartridge gun. Basically i want to know if there is any reason why i should get a BP over a blackhawk.

    Thanks
    Z
     
  2. Smokin_Gun

    Smokin_Gun Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,632
    Location:
    Mojave Desert, California
    Well two things would almost stop me from telling you to go get a BP C&B Rev. Both are that you mentioned Ruger twice the "ROA" a good gun now discontinued and not authentic to anything as a reproduction Rev, but a fine rendition of a Ruger Blackhawk converted to a Cap & Ball Rev. Second you ask if as accurate as a Blackhawk cartridge gun.
    Well what do you want a Ruger or an authentic reproduction 19th C&B or Cartridge, of a Century Revolver?
    If the answer is a Repro 19th Century Rev go get a Uberti or Pietta 1858 NMA .44 Remington. You shoot it enough and you will be just as accurate ...a drop in .45Long Colt conversion cylinder will give you both worlds ... C&B and Cartridge.

    Hope that helped,

    SG
     
  3. arcticap

    arcticap Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6,185
    Location:
    Central Connecticut
    Cabela's offers an optional pistol starter kit if you buy a revolver from them for an extra $40.

    But if you buy these basics below separately they'll cost about $80 or so:
    powder flask
    powder measure
    Bore Butter lube or Crisco
    nipple wrench
    nipple pick
    round balls
    percussion caps
    powder

    Optional:
    capper
    loading stand
    Cream of Wheat filler
    Wonder [wool] Wads
    Lube pills
    Plastic funnel top for the powder container
    Cleaning fluid, brushes & supplies
    Tools - screwdriver kit

    And don't forget the hand cleaner....:)
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2008
  4. scrat

    scrat Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    6,882
    Location:
    Monrovia, CA
    Going C&B is awesome both of both worlds for sure. Example my WALKER. i can load it very light in bp or all the way up to 55 grains. Making a very loud canon. Shooting bp the gun is very very accurate. When i get tired of having to load up bp cap and ball. I pull the wedge, change the cylinder. Now im shooting 45 Colt. Awesome simply awesome.

    Best of both worlds
     
  5. Jenrick

    Jenrick Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,679
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Any particular reason everyone seems to recomend the Rem 1858 NMA over other C&B revolvers? I'm probably going to go get one this weekend and was leaning more towards a Walker or a 1860 Army. I do really like the idea of being able to get a conversion cylinder and shooting both C&B and cartridge (especially as I reload).

    Thanks,

    -Jenrick
     
  6. mykeal

    mykeal Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,147
    Location:
    Michigan
    The 1858 Remington is an excellent example of the cap and ball revolver. It's very popular, accurate and a fine way to learn the sport.

    However (you knew that was coming, didn't you), it's not the only one. I think there are at least 3 very good candidates for the first c&b revolver: 1851 Colt Navy, 1860 Colt Army (or 1861 Colt Navy) and the Remington. Each has it's good points and bad points, and each will do everything you want it to do within the limitations of a single action percussion revolver.

    Invariably when one 'recommends' a gun people take that position to be a statement that the gun is 'the best' of all the designs, and a big debate ensues. That's actually a good thing - it means that whatever the choice, you really can't go wrong. There is a wealth of experience out here in internet land; we've made all the mistakes and thoroughly tested everything there is, and if a particular design really didn't measure up, we'd all say so. The fact that we debate the subject continually says that they're all good in their own ways.

    So, look at it this way: no matter what you choose, you can't go far wrong. It may not be the perfect gun for you, but you have to start someplace and learn what matters to you. None of us can tell you that part of it; only you can find it out by trying things out.

    Buy one of these three: 1858 Remington (in .36 or .44), 1851 Colt Navy (.36 only, although there are .44 cal versions) and either the 1860 Colt Army (.44 only) or 1861 Colt Navy (.36 only). Make your decision based on how it looks, or the color of the box, or the fact that your great, great uncle used to have a real one - in other words, why doesn't matter. Put 100 rounds (at the very least) through it. It'll be great fun no matter which you choose.

    Then come back and we'll talk about the next one (Walker, Dragoon, Rogers & Spencer, Pocket revolver, etc.).
     
  7. Soundtrackzz

    Soundtrackzz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Harrisonburg VA. Louisville KY
    I know just enough about BP to know that your not supposed to shoot smokless powder in a BP gun. But if im using a conversion cylinder wouldnt i be shooting smokeless out of a BP gun and wouldnt it blow up on me?
     
  8. mykeal

    mykeal Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,147
    Location:
    Michigan
    The cylinder is the determining factor. Percussion cylinders are not designed or tested to withstand the pressures generated by smokeless powder. The frame and barrel are not an issue as they do not see the pressure the cylinder does.

    Conversion cylinders are designed for light smokeless powder loads and can withstand the pressures. Again, the frame and barrel are not subjected to those pressures, so they can support the conversion cylinder.
     
  9. sharps59

    sharps59 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2008
    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    Standing on the Rock
    mykeal I haven't done a lot of checking but I thought the conversion cylinders were designed only so you can use cart. w/black powder not so you could use smokless.
     
  10. mykeal

    mykeal Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,147
    Location:
    Michigan
    You should check with the cylinder manufacturer as to exactly what loads the cylinder is designed for.

    In general, they are designed for what's termed 'cowboy loads'. They can be either smokeless powder or black powder.
     
  11. Jenrick

    Jenrick Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,679
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Thanks for the info. So beyond what's in the cabella's starter kit any other must haves? The video they have on loading a BP revolver doesn't mention anything about wadding, filler, etc. Necessary or nicety?

    -Jenrick
     
  12. Omnivore

    Omnivore Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    783
    Location:
    North Idaho/Eastern Washington
    arcticap; You forgot the gold necklace, night out for dinner, or etc.. Those of you who are married will understand. I'd say a good screwdriver kit should be on the "must have" list. You need a really good fit between the screw and the driver.

    mykeal; Your 03:50 AM post is really good. I second it.
     
  13. scrat

    scrat Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    6,882
    Location:
    Monrovia, CA
    ok lets not scare the guy off.

    1. you do not need to remove all the screws down to the very last one.

    2. you do not have to have a million dollar screw set

    The most important thing about black powder revolvers is just learning about them and shooting them. At the top of this forum is a link to black powder essentials. there is a lot of good information there put together on black powder revolvers. As far as the screw drivers. What i have done and many others is go out and buy a regular screw driver. then file it down to where it fits the screws on your revolver. Thats it. just make sure you apply firm pressure to the screws. Your first goal is to get a revolver that you like and feel is right for you. weather its historicly correct or not does not matter. When ever i see a post saying Thinking about a BP revolver i laugh grin and think about how long it will take before this person is addicted and is buying more and more and more. So not everyone thinks a like not everyone has the same ideas and not everyone is going to try to stir you away from black powder.
     
  14. Pulp

    Pulp Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,019
    Location:
    Valliant, OK
    A word about cartridge conversion cylinders. Mine is from R&D. They recommend using Black Hills Cowboy ammo for smokeless. I have used others in mine as well, but it's not near as much fun as when they're reloaded with BP.

    Another thought: some folks are complicators, some folks are simplifiers. Complicators will have you totally dismantle any gun after shooting it and meticulously clean and polish every single part. Simplifiers clean the cylinder and barrel and leave it at that. The true answer is somewhere in between. I usually totally clean mine a couple of times a year, and simple clean the rest of the time. I've never had any rust or corrosion problems.
     
  15. AdmiralB

    AdmiralB Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    249
    Location:
    Central Indiana
    I agree with this. I wondered the same thing, and on paper, I thought (still do think) that the Remington was 'the one' if I was only to have one.

    But I don't have any BP revolver dealers near me, so I had to bite the bullet and order via mail. Now I own a Walker, an 1860, and a Remington. And I have an 1851 Navy London model on order, whenever Uberti gets around to making them.

    I found that, of the three I own, the 1860 fits me the best - it's just a perfect natural pointer. The Remington isn't bad, but my hand rides higher on it and it's just not as comfortable. However, from a practicality perspective I think it's a superior design.

    So, you really have to handle them to decide what's gonna work best for you.
     
  16. Smokin_Gun

    Smokin_Gun Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,632
    Location:
    Mojave Desert, California
    Well put AdmiralB

    But in answer to this question;
    Cause they are the best and I have a half a dozen of Rems and half a dozen various models of Colts. Almost bought a Starr DA tonite but i want the Single action preferably used. If I still want one...LoL!

    Anyway if you get a Rem you'll get a Colt 1860 or 1851, then another Rem and another Colt. So you'll see for yourself...have fun and be safe.

    SG
     
  17. PRM

    PRM Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    2,060
    BP Revolvers - Personal Thoughts

    You can't go wrong. Black Powder revolvers are just plain fun, functional and accurate. A lot of folks regulate these to relics or high priced toys - they seem to forget that for over half of the history of this country - they were "the guns." There is something about the whole process; casting your balls, working up the most accurate load, seeing the flame, smelling the smoke, that just gets in your blood. I bought my first black powder revolver the day I turned 21, that was 32 years ago. Although, I do own a couple of semi-autos and DA Colts, the Cap and Ball revolvers still have a special place. I have always liked the Second Generation Colts, not being negative about other models or brands, just personal preference. There are a lot of great black powder guns out there. A few years back I started dressing out my old friends in pre-ban ivory.

    Would I trust one? One of my favorite house guns is a double barrel .20 guage Howdah loaded with .60 calibre patched round balls and topped off with #4 Buck.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2009
  18. sundance44s

    sundance44s Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,473
    If you are considering the pistol , for carry on your trecks through the woods and back country , or even a hunting side arm ..I`d say 1858 Remington with conversion cylinder ..or Ruger ROA with conversion cylinder ..The reason I`m stuck with the idea of the solid frame and conversion cylinder ...is because I have these type for my what I call boondocking ..I`m not going target shooting but just want a side arm because of the fact I`m going into the wild country ...I may not even need the pistol at all so I don`t shoot it ...and with the conversion cylinder in it ..when I get back home I can unload it very simple ..wipe it off and back in the gunsafe ...I like to carry what I shoot the most , and haveing the best of both worlds with these pistols ...Keeps me a sharp shooter when I need one ...after hours of shooting them with the black powder and cap and balls , they are alot of fun , but can be a serious side arm ....I know alot of the Colt open top guys say get a Colt open type and a conversion cylinder ......But in the real world , loading and unloading one of these guns for useing the conversion cylinder ...means takeing a wedge out of the barrel that holds things together ...then takeing the barrel off .............Too much for a guy new at this sport . The open tops will come later ..They are alot of fun to shoot too ...I have many of both .
     
  19. J.T. Gerrity

    J.T. Gerrity Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    229
    Location:
    Colorado Territory
    First, read the "Black powder" essentials sticky at the top of the forum page. It will get you started.

    Second, don't worry about "conversion cylinders" at this point. You're getting a Blackpowder revolver so use it as such; it's the way they were designed to be used and the conversion stuff can come later. I shoot B.P. for the history as much as anything else, and the conversions came late in the life of these firearms. Don't let conversion considerations guide your choice.

    Thirdly, a lot of folks on this forum like to use hot water to clean their firearms. While it's the tried-and-true way of cleaning these guns, it's not the only one. The Blackpowder solvents from Hoppes or Birchwood Casey and the like work just as well with the benefits of being able to clean your piece in the field, and the fact that straight water never touches the gun. I know I'll get flak for saying this (I'm used to it by now ;) ), but I've never seen a gun cleaned with water that didn't have some rust starting on it - though I've certainly not seen every gun in existence and there will be those die-hard water fans that will take exception to this. I'm just pointing out the alternatives.

    And, finally, the Remington and ROA fans like to consider their guns superior because of the top strap. They say it makes the gun stronger and that the open-top Colts will shoot loose; also that the sights will wander due to the rear sight being a part of the hammer etc. etc. etc. Don't listen to them. If you like the look and feel of the Colts, then get one of them and you'll not be sorry. The Remingtons can come later (though I, personally, eventually gave away my Remington because I found I never used it, and preferred the Colts). At this point, get whatever tickles your fancy; Remington, ROA or Colt. They're all just a heckuva lot of fun and you'll end up with more than one, and this is something we ALL can agree on.

    Happy shooting, and as Mr. Walsh likes to say: "Welcome to the Club".
     
  20. mykeal

    mykeal Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,147
    Location:
    Michigan
    Boy. Either people have gotten incredibly stupid in the last 30 years or I was unusually intelligent when I started shooting bp revolvers. And you can rest assured that nobody has indicated to me that my intelligence back then was anything to write home about. So...
     
  21. sundance44s

    sundance44s Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,473
    Mykeal ..your statement could be true but lets put it another way ..you wouldn`t beleive how many used open top Colts I`ve bought , and spent hours sanding the dings and dents out of the barrels , because someone new to the sport bought them and couldn`t get the wedge out of the barrel looked like they used a frameing hammer on them ....does this mean they were stupid people ...I don`t think so at all ...I just know what happens and don`t like to sugar coat anything . The man said he wanted one for carry in the woods ..That doesn`t always mean a target shooting session or a history lesson ..and it`s not time for a learning class eaither ...I know the truth hurts ....Remember I like my Colts too ...But I had already owned 7 1858 Remingtons before I bought my first open top Colt ...It was new and very hard to get the barrel wedge out ....It isn`t rocket science ..but it helps when one knows a little more about how these guns work .
    Funny thing about those used Colts I`ve bought ...beleive it or not they all came from up north ..where most folks are born knowing everything .
     
  22. Voodoochile

    Voodoochile Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,144
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Ooopps :rolleyes:

    Yeah, my first C&B Revolver was a Pietta 1860 Army that I still have today but I have to admit, I had learned from my grandfather how to handle & treat them before I had enough allowance saved to buy mine & I still love mine but when I bought my 1858 Remington copy a few years later I too saw the advantages to it's design.

    Now a days if I want to go trapsing in the woods & I want to cary a piece but not my .45 I'll grab one of my Pietta 58's to come along for the ride.
     
  23. sundance44s

    sundance44s Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,473
    Mother was from New York my father was from New orleans ...So my brain works both ways ...lol
     
  24. mykeal

    mykeal Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,147
    Location:
    Michigan
    Well, instead of dancing around it, what does it mean? For Pete's sakes, man, say what you mean.
     
  25. sundance44s

    sundance44s Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,473
    OK MyKeal ..it`s like this some folks get into the black powder guns with out haveing friends or family to help them ...like Voodoochile said his Grandfather taught him ...He knew full well what he was getting into ...last year I ran into a guy at my black powder club that saw me shooting a 1858 Remington , he asked to see it after watching me for an hour or so ...He wanted to know if it was a modern revolver like a ROA ..he didn`t know ...his next words were he had bought a 1851 Colt Navy a few years ago ...and it was nothing like the Remington ..much harder to deal with ..so he hung it on a wall ...it ended his love afair with the black powder revolvers ..Next time I saw the guy he was shooting a 1858 Remington and grinning from ear to ear ..Some day I bet he takes the Navy off the wall and gives it a go again ....If he would have started into the sport with a 1858 ..he wouldn`t have hung it on a wall ..The guy had been shooting black powder rifles for 30 years , and thought my 1858 was a new fangle modern revolver ...........get it .
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page