thinking about buying or building a home defense shotgun.

[Detritus]

So, for various reasons I am once again thinking about either buying or building myself a shotgun for home defense use, with a secondary (or is it primary when it's what the gun will, hopefully, actually get used for the most?) use as a range/multi-gun match toy.

my Idea/preferences are as follows.

1. 12ga
2. 8-10 round capacity
3. 20-24" barrel
4. don't really have a preference between pump and auto, other than knowing semi-auto SHOULD be somewhat softer shooting
5. Slightly leaning toward wanting ghost-ring sights but can definitely deal with a standard bead

with those in mind, the options I'm considering are as follows.

Modify the late 80s ('87 or '88) Remington 870 Express i just inherited by buying a barrel, mag extension, and a few other random upgrade parts. This would entail having to remove/cut the dimples out of the mag tube on this gun and in the end would cost nearly as much as the least expensive of the other options I'm considering, but the cost would be spread out a bit.

Mossberg 590A1, possibly the "Retrograde" version (wood stock and adds back the heat shield). frankly this is THE pump I've been wanting for this use for like 30years, but i'm not sure it's the best option anymore.

Mossberg 940 JM Pro, seems popular with the run and gun crowd, but of the ones I'm contemplating it's the most expensive.

Stoeger M3K "Freedom series" least expensive of the Semi-autos, has all but one of the features I would prefer (doesn't have ghost ring sights, but they may be out there). Is a known quantity Turkish made variant of the Benelli inertia driven action.

would love to know what others think or would advise.

thank you for your time and information.

 

[MikeInOr]

Walking through my house, up/down stairs and through halls and doors with full length shotgun, too me, is WAY too long and clunky severally limiting maneuverability. I personally would give up shell capacity to greatly increase the utility of a tactical shotgun.

I don't think I would go for a bullpup but something like the Remington Tac14 has a lot of appeal to me (5 rounds).


But I prefer the maneuverability of a high capacity pistol over the power of a shotgun.

My home defense weapon of choice is a 13+1 round 45 acp +p pistol which I can still shove into a jacket pocket when taking the garbage out and not get the neighbors all riled up. Good capacity, good power and very good maneuverability.

 

[Dan Wesson]

If cost is a factor, the Mossberg 590 is a darn good option.
Even a Maverick 88 Security 20” is a good option for what you want— mine holds 8+1 standard 2-3/4 shells.
Really you should just pick what you want and enjoy it! Any of those shotguns will suit your purpose. One suggestion: if shooting comfort in a 12gauge is a concern, put a Limbsaver recoil pad on whatever you end up with. It will make a difference!

 

[Ohen Cepel]

If going the 870 route and having to spend $$ on it, I would look at Wilson's steal package;

Shotgun Custom Work

Wilson Combat has been the innovator in custom pistols, long guns, and accessories since 1977. Home of the Wilson Combat 1911, EDC X9, WCP320, and more!

wilsoncombat.com

The 590 option is a fine one also. Really depends if you want a pump or auto. If going auto I would look hard at the current Beretta offerings, I think they have an A300 Patrol which may be around the price of the 940 (forgive me if the prices are off, I haven't been looking hard at those). I am a bit cautious about inexpensive autos, the Stoeger may have figured it out but many have cut corners somewhere which could get you in the long run.

I would go out and run the 870 some and see if the operating system and recoil is good for you are not and then go from there. Path will be more clear if you know you want a semi or pump.

I have been noodling the same thing but am leaning towards a pump myself. Had a Beretta long ago and it was a fine shotgun but I would get messed up with the auto system if I wasn't paying attention (totally my issue, not the gun). Then, over time, I didn't have a place to train with it and my issues with it got worse due to lack of training. The pump is just more intuitive for me and what I'm used to.

 

[Armored farmer]

Im going the 870 route because that's what I'm used to. I already have the gun with a 20" bbl and a tritium front bead.
If i were starting at zero.....I would consider this...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1084283753

My lgs had one that I fondled, and would have bought if I needed one. It was pretty well built, and upgraded with sights, etc.
It is 12ga but that's the standard IMHO. Light loads available for practice etc.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Dan Wesson mentioned the Maverick 88 Security. Probably all you really need for intended purpose.

 

[Detritus]

Dan Wesson mentioned the Maverick 88 Security. Probably all you really need for intended purpose.

I think everyone in any given tech-based fandom/community, firearms, cars, etc. has that one product that they know is perfectly serviceable and fits their needs, BUT they just can't warm up to it enough to give it a go for their own use.

the Maverick 88 series is that item for me in the shotgun realm. I sold I don't know how many of them in the combined 3 years I worked in gun sales. I know for a fact that the Maverick is a production streamlined and economized Mossberg 500. that except for small things like the change in barrel attachment/mag endcap design, it's mechanically the same as the 500 and 590, so on and so on.

It just does not speak to me, Just like Glock pistols, I have nothing against it but I have no interest. ~shrug~

 

[Jack Ryan]

So, for various reasons I am once again thinking about either buying or building myself a shotgun for home defense use, with a secondary (or is it primary when it's what the gun will, hopefully, actually get used for the most?) use as a range/multi-gun match toy.

my Idea/preferences are as follows.

1. 12ga
2. 8-10 round capacity
3. 20-24" barrel
4. don't really have a preference between pump and auto, other than knowing semi-auto SHOULD be somewhat softer shooting
5. Slightly leaning toward wanting ghost-ring sights but can definitely deal with a standard bead

with those in mind, the options I'm considering are as follows.

Modify the late 80s ('87 or '88) Remington 870 Express i just inherited by buying a barrel, mag extension, and a few other random upgrade parts. This would entail having to remove/cut the dimples out of the mag tube on this gun and in the end would cost nearly as much as the least expensive of the other options I'm considering, but the cost would be spread out a bit.

Mossberg 590A1, possibly the "Retrograde" version (wood stock and adds back the heat shield). frankly this is THE pump I've been wanting for this use for like 30years, but i'm not sure it's the best option anymore.

Mossberg 940 JM Pro, seems popular with the run and gun crowd, but of the ones I'm contemplating it's the most expensive.

Stoeger M3K "Freedom series" least expensive of the Semi-autos, has all but one of the features I would prefer (doesn't have ghost ring sights, but they may be out there). Is a known quantity Turkish made variant of the Benelli inertia driven action.

would love to know what others think or would advise.

thank you for your time and information.

Get an older Remington Wingmaster. There is nothing to modify on those to just install any of those options. You can go back and fort all you want. Smooth bore slug barrels for those are all over the place. Don't ruin anything putting that "ghost ring" garbage on there.

Never, ever, buy any Mossberg shotgun or that Stoeger stuff. Those are prop guns for movie stars and Hollywood fan boys to pose in front of their action hero posters.


No need to reply. Thats my opinion. That is what I've bought, got, and done. Now if you are like 90% of the rest of the internet you can go get what ever is cheapest from the lowest bidder. Just think about it before you have to bet your life on it.

 

[Tinman357]

I went through pretty much the same thing some time ago.

The 590 without the heat shield is hard to beat.

 

[.38 Special]

I have a couple of 590 A1s, including the "retro". They have been utterly reliable, though both did benefit from about 500 cycles, just to smooth things up. Be aware that they are fairly heavy. I use the 18" gun for home defense, as the "retro" seems really long indoors.

I don't have a great deal of experience with semi-autos, having only borrowed a few at matches and training courses. I have shot the 940 JM Pro and liked it well enough that I considered buying one. This will probably ruffle some feathers, but I've seen far more fumbles and screw-ups with semi-autos in general, and believe they require more effort to be made reliable than do most pump guns. Were I to rely on one for defense, I would need to use it quite a bit before I trusted it - and my own abilities with it!

I used to insist on ghost ring sights, but now have gotten away from them. Participating in clay target sports showed me how important shotgun fit is, and if my gun fits, I'm faster with a bead. The only times I now appreciate ghost rings on a shotgun are with slugs, and I kind of wish my home defense 590 - now that I have installed an adjustable stock and gotten a reasonably good fit - had a bead instead of sights.

 

[.45Coltguy]

I think everyone in any given tech-based fandom/community, firearms, cars, etc. has that one product that they know is perfectly serviceable and fits their needs, BUT they just can't warm up to it enough to give it a go for their own use.

the Maverick 88 series is that item for me in the shotgun realm. I sold I don't know how many of them in the combined 3 years I worked in gun sales. I know for a fact that the Maverick is a production streamlined and economized Mossberg 500. that except for small things like the change in barrel attachment/mag endcap design, it's mechanically the same as the 500 and 590, so on and so on.

It just does not speak to me, Just like Glock pistols, I have nothing against it but I have no interest. ~shrug~

Point well taken.

 

[jmorris]

I run semi's in 3 gun, O/U for most clay stuff, pumps, bolts and others can sit for years with little to no up keep and still run though.

Any semi that doesn't run 100% should be viewed as a single shot that is even slower to reload.

 

[dfariswheel]

The one shotgun all others are judged by is the Remington 870.
A used 870 can be easily converted into anything you want by switching barrels and accessories.
Any accessory that's made for pump shotguns is also made for the 870.

The new Remington is turning out some 870's that are reported to be the best made for years.
A prime HD model is the version with an extended magazine tube. The down side is it only takes a special barrel so that can limit changing to other formats.
Most any gun shop or pawn shop will have used 870's.

For many years my go-to was Remington 870 Police guns.
Now due to non-repairable torn rotator cuffs in my shoulders I went to an OD Green Kel-Tec KS7.
I tried the Kel-Tec KSG but I like the simpler and less troublesome KS7.
I can move through the house and open doors, use a flashlight all while holding the KS7 with one hand, and I can fire at least the first round with the one hand.
Even a bodybuilder can't hold up a standard format shotgun with one hand for long.

 

[entropy]

Basically a bullpup Ithaca 37. Which is a decent choice. I have a 37 with a buttscock and pistol grip.

Of the 3 the OP lists, he has them in the right order, except I would go further and exclude the Stoeger. I would put a Beretta 1301 in 2nd.

An 870 is never the wrong answer as an HD shotgun, as dfariswheel points out. I have one as a back up to the 37.

 

[WestKentucky]

I really like my tokarev tx3. It’s a short gun with the basic bells and whistles already added. The rear sight setup is really slick. For a $200 gun I can’t find anything to complain about.

 

[EMT40SW]

My first choice would be a Mossberg 590 A1. I have one that I really enjoy shooting. It’s on HD duty right now.

Second would be to take that Rem 870 Express or buy a used Wingmaster or Police model then send it to Scattergun Technologies (Wilson Combat) for rebuilding & customizatio. They have a $230 Remington Steal package that is great.
I have an old police Wingmaster rebuilt that came out great. I love it.

 

[cfullgraf]

Lots of good parts available for a variety of pump shotguns. You cannot go wrong with a Remington 870 or a Mosberg 500 series as a starting point. After all, we are not talkIng about competition, service shotguns here.

Pick out the shotgun you want and build your EDC gun with the available parts..

Be happy, don't over think things.

 

[Anchorite]

I run a Winny 1300 8-shot Defenser at my Hacienda. It’s pistol-gripped (a Birdshead grip is on my Grail list) and side-saddled with 6 shells.
I’m very satisfied. It’s short length and light weight are fantastic traits. I limit what I run through it for controllability. Normal load it sees is a 6-shot 2-3/4 bird load.

 

[Frulk]

Based on your comment that you worked in gun sales there’s no need to go the ‘this one is better than that one because…blah blah blah’ route.

You already know what works from reading your initial post.

I own a Stoeger side by side. Bought it back around 2005. I know we’re discussing pumps and autos…however, if it’s a representative sample of their product line in general it will get the job done but I would consider it only after looking hard at the Mossberg and Remington and determining they didn’t meet my needs for whatever reason.

Me, personally have never liked the REM trigger guard safety. That’s probably why I would lean towards the Mossbergs. I REALLY like a top tang safety and have other non shotguns with them.

That’s NOT a dig on the 870. In the pump category it can hold its own against all comers. It really is a toss up to me between the two that appear to be front runners in your quest.

I handled a Mossberg Retrograde about a year ago. I’m actually surprised I didn’t buy it. There was a lot I liked about it. Might have been because I was on an impromptu stop at an out of the way gun shop on a motorcycle and had no way to haul it home without buying a sling and throwing it over my back.

Getting back to your specific situation. If that 870 was in good to very good shape I wouldn’t mod it. Especially if the cost brought you close to a new 590/Retrograde etc. These days Im seeing very few clean WINGMASTERS around. I always liked their profile, gloss stocks and nicely done checkering with scrolled borders. Be a shame to hack it up for HD/competition duties.

 

[jmr40]

This is the easy button

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/beretta-a300-ultima-patrol-semi-auto-shotgun

Pumps vs semi's is often misunderstood. Lots of people think a pump is more reliable but that depends. A pump will handle more abuse, not being cleaned, and shoot most any ammo but they rely on proper owner operation. In the real world a semi if kept reasonably clean and fed good ammo is less likely to jam on you.

A pump is what I'd want for an end of the world survival scenario.

That Beretta gives you everything you'd want in a SD shotgun at a price that is reasonable. You couldn't put together anything near that quality at that price .

Of course a quality pump is a lot cheaper if you just want a basic shotgun.

 

[natman]

1. 12ga
2. 8-10 round capacity
3. 20-24" barrel
4. don't really have a preference between pump and auto, other than knowing semi-auto SHOULD be somewhat softer shooting
5. Slightly leaning toward wanting ghost-ring sights but can definitely deal with a standard bead

Mossberg 590A1, possibly the "Retrograde" version (wood stock and adds back the heat shield). frankly this is THE pump I've been wanting for this use for like 30years, but i'm not sure it's the best option anymore.

Still hard to beat. But instead of the 590A1, I'd go with the lighter and cheaper 590, specifically this version:

590 M-Lok

The Mighty 590. With decades of military and law enforcement duty and countless performance and success stories under its belt, it’s no surprise that the 590 chosen for duty around the globe is also the ideal choice for home defense needs.

www.mossberg.com

The 590A1 differs mainly in that it offers a heavy barrel. The problem is that the heavy barrel is, well, heavy. A 590 A1 empty weighs almost as much empty as a 590 weighs loaded. The heavy barrel is not a bad idea when the shotgun is subjected to military abuse, but it's just dead weight for civilian use.

 

[westernrover]

So, for various reasons I am once again thinking about either buying or building myself a shotgun for home defense use, with a secondary (or is it primary when it's what the gun will, hopefully, actually get used for the most?) use as a range/multi-gun match toy.

my Idea/preferences are as follows.

1. 12ga
2. 8-10 round capacity
3. 20-24" barrel
4. don't really have a preference between pump and auto, other than knowing semi-auto SHOULD be somewhat softer shooting
5. Slightly leaning toward wanting ghost-ring sights but can definitely deal with a standard bead
....

Mossberg 590A1,....

Handling a 590 A1 shocked me how front-heavy it is. I can only imagine it when the magazine is filled with lead. I think you should handle a shotgun with 8-10 rounds loaded before you decide on that.

Others have pointed out the problem handling a full-size shotgun in close quarters. I would still prefer 18" or SBS to AOW. 18" limits magazine capacity, but I think that is fine because the tube extended out to 24" or more is too heavy. I'd rather have 5 in the tube and 5 more in a saddle on the receiver.

I like the Model 12 (1912) pump, but I can see the benefit of semi-automatic actions. I like the Benelli M2, but the inertia-driven action limits adding weight to it and it doesn't easily accommodate an optic. The 1301 Tactical has it all, but I ask myself, "do I really need it all?" M2 and 1301 are $$$ and I wonder if the humble Model 12 from the used rack won't do everything I'd want. It's not just that it's cheap. It has its own advantages -- same as the 870 or 590 does.

I haven't figured out ghost ring vs. open sights vs. bead vs. reflex or holographic. The reflex on a handgun is awesome. I also like it on a small carbine -- I'm talking about the mini reflex like RMR, SRO, ACRO etc. The holographic is better but obviously much bulkier. Small aperture sights increase the depth of field and allow the front sight and target to be in focus, but ghost-ring do not. The aperture is too big. They are more like open sights. I might prefer open sights to a bead for slugs. A bead can also work fine, especially for shorter ranges.

 

[vanfunk]

I know some people make fun of it or don’t think it’s a serious arm, but I love my Mossberg 590S Shockwave. I put a Hogue grip sleeve on it to improve purchase on the bird’s head grip, a Holosun green dot, and an ESS velcro patch on the receiver holding another 4 rounds. The 14” barrel is very maneuverable indoors, and Federal buffered 00 and #4 buck pattern beautifully out to 15 yards. It’s also really awesome with minishells! 15 #4 Buck pellets per shell, with 8 in the magazine and another 4 on the side creates a marvelous feeling of well-being. The action has slicked up nicely over 500 rounds or so and, although the recoil is there with 2 3/4” buckshot, it’s eminently controllable. I can even keep slugs on an IDPA silhouette at 50 yards courtesy of the green dot. Oh, and yes, it does make me want to be flying around on a cigarette boat somewhere south of Miami. Anyway, thought I’d throw the Shockwave out there for consideration.

 

[entropy]

That's a Serbu Super Shorty.

 

[Detritus]

I own a Stoeger side by side. Bought it back around 2005. I know we’re discussing pumps and autos…however, if it’s a representative sample of their product line in general it will get the job done but I would consider it only after looking hard at the Mossberg and Remington and determining they didn’t meet my needs for whatever reason.

I used to own a Stoeger Coach Gun (used to shoot Cowboy Action), those Brazilian doubles were and are almost indestructible in use.
not as sure of the durability of the Turkish made Benelli/Franchi clones but the Turk shotguns I HAVE handled were all pretty damn good (Huglu/CZ and whoever is making the Yildiz brand for Academy) my understanding is that the maker of the Stoeger M3000 guns is that same one that was making the Turkish copies (continuance, after the debut of the PX4 storm actually) of the Berreta Cougar. and those things were damned good if not a polished as the Italian made ones.

Getting back to your specific situation. If that 870 was in good to very good shape I wouldn’t mod it. Especially if the cost brought you close to a new 590/Retrograde etc. These days Im seeing very few clean WINGMASTERS around. I always liked their profile, gloss stocks and nicely done checkering with scrolled borders. Be a shame to hack it up for HD/competition duties.

the 870 I have, i could probably put it in a shop as all but NIB (i don't have the box, but otherwise) and no one would know that it ever saw a skeet range or dove field. it's an Express (matte finish, orangey dark brown stain on a grain-less stock) not a Wingmaster. I WISH I still had my wingmaster!! Long story, dad traded it toward a broke bass boat
as for the conversion costs, i priced out a new barrel, mag extension, upgraded follower and a few other minor things, staying with a beaded barrel, no sight upgrade. If i factor in the cost of any tools I may have to acquire, that cost was nearing $500 and possibly climbing. the low end of the Mossbergs being considered (so base model 590), and the Stoeger M3K are around $6-650... and if i don't convert the Remington it stays a perfectly usable bird gun if i ever take up skeet or hunting again. otther side of that is that it spreads out the expenditure, so.. a wash??