thinking of jumping ship: LNL to 650???

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I’m not sure how the springs get kinked either except it is most probably during removal and replacement of the springs during a shell plate change.
A loose shell plate screw will mangle a LNL spring. (don't ask how this, screw needs a lock washer they don't give you, easy fix)
 
I suppose my question is this, have you ever took the whole press apart and set it up per Highboy on YouTube videos? If not this would be a great way to spend an afternoon. I have had my lnl for 5 or 6 years and loaded a ton of Magnum ammo in several calibers. Plan b how much do you want for it?

Thewelshm
 
A loose shell plate screw will mangle a LNL spring.

No doubt a loose shell plate will mangle the spring as the spring could get caught between the shell plate and the sub plate. But not my problem. My shell plates do not come loose during operation.

Lots of other spring mis-handling occurs along the way. Besides when installing the shell plate and getting the spring to feed into the trough of the sub plate to allow for case ejection and insertion, I remove and re-install cases in the shell plate frequently between stations 2, 3 and 4. Not the easiest on the spring when it gets caught on the rim.

I just find it amazing that the kinked spring does not upset the operation of the press the way I operate it. I have six spare springs that I purchased back in 2009 that the packages have not even been opened yet.
 
It would be nice to have two set up though and would only be cost of the press.
 
No doubt a loose shell plate will mangle the spring as the spring could get caught between the shell plate and the sub plate. But not my problem. My shell plates do not come loose during operation.

Lots of other spring mis-handling occurs along the way. Besides when installing the shell plate and getting the spring to feed into the trough of the sub plate to allow for case ejection and insertion, I remove and re-install cases in the shell plate frequently between stations 2, 3 and 4. Not the easiest on the spring when it gets caught on the rim.

I just find it amazing that the kinked spring does not upset the operation of the press the way I operate it. I have six spare springs that I purchased back in 2009 that the packages have not even been opened yet.


It does if you have a case feeder.
 
When I first got my LNL I kinked a couple of springs until I figured out how to avoid it. Basically just be careful. The one on it right now is a few years old.
 
I think anything mechanical, like these presses will each have its own set of idiosyncrasies that has to be dealt with from time to time. It's just a matter of which set you find the least annoying, although finding out can get expensive.
I had some frustrations when I first got my LNL AP but have worked them out, with the super help from Hornady, when needed. I load both pistol and 223 on my press and now it runs like a fine Swiss watch. YMMV.
 
I had some frustrations when I first got my LNL AP but have worked them out, with the super help from Hornady, when needed. I load both pistol and 223 on my press and now it runs like a fine Swiss watch. YMMV.

Mine ran fantastic out of the box but then suffered what I call a mid-life-crisis. After a few changes I also now have mine running like a clock.
 
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What I guess I really want to know is, have any of you made the switch from Hornady to Dillon? If so, was it worth it?
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I think the 650 is a better machine than the LNL hands down, both with case feed.

That said any machine can be figured out and any machine can have problems.
 
I own green, red and blue stuff, but my only progressive is a Dillon 650. Many, many thousands of rounds of 9mm, .223, .45acp have gone through it. I have had a couple of parts wear out or break, but 1 phone call to Dillon and replacement was on way. As a post before mentioned, they don't seem to be too liberal at replacing bent & broken decapping pins, so I bought a few extras to have on hand when one of my stainless media pins get lodged in the primer pocket.

I'm sure Hornady, RCBS and other progressives are quite capable, but if I ever buy another new progressive, it will be blue. If I find a bargain on used, I would probably buy either at the right price.
 
I made switch to Dillon for same reason constantly tweaking on Hornady even after 2 factory rebuilds. It always had something wrong. Went back to Dillon 550 best way to go even had Square Deal it ran lot better than Hornady
 
I bought my LNL in 2013 and have tweaked it according to the "highboy" videos. I actually enjoyed doing this because I got to know every piece of the machinery and how it works. Now I don't have the automated case or bullet feeders. I did make my own tube fed bullet feeder. I tend to do things in batches so this may alter my experiences somewhat. I initially was going to buy the 650 but decided the LNL was a cheaper way to start with a progressive. I really do like my LNL however but am kinda looking at the RCBS Pro chucker 7. Waiting until all the kinks are worked out first and may still not pull the trigger. The LNL works fine for my needs. However go for it and try something different.
 
I never had to tweak mine, it just keeps on working, but obviously some have had to do so. I like the ergonomics of the LNL, and it works great for me, even though I have no doubt the Dillons are better machines overall.
 
I did the switch`. I went from L_N_L to the 550. Hated the manual shell plate advance. Went back to L_N_L. Hated having to tinker with it all te time to get it to run right, especially the primer system. Switched again, this time to the 650. WOW what a difference. Haven't had a single issue. It does however consume all of the components you have on hand in a short time. Do not buy this unit without a case feeder.
 
I did the switch`. I went from L_N_L to the 550. Hated the manual shell plate advance. Went back to L_N_L. Hated having to tinker with it all te time to get it to run right, especially the primer system. Switched again, this time to the 650. WOW what a difference. Haven't had a single issue. It does however consume all of the components you have on hand in a short time. Do not buy this unit without a case feeder.


And there’s the problem with the 650. Your supplies are used up so quickly. Funny how that happens. No stoppages, work the handle with confident speed (without realizing it), smooth and easy feel in lever, alarms are definitely a plus with this problem (primers, powder) since supplies are emptied so quick, and did I mention no stoppages. No, I don’t load for speed, either. The 650 just seems to zip along on its own.
 
I've had my LNL AP (w/bullet feeder/collator) for about 6 years now and reload for 9, 38, 357, 44, 45, 308 & 30.06.

When I first got it I had some problems but that was mostly me in that I had never reloaded before and had no one with experience to talk to and it was pre knowing about highboy's excellent videos. The real only adjustment that I had to make that wasn't my fault was some fine tuning on the pawls for timing.

When I was looking the deciding factor between the LNL AP and a fully kitted out 650 was the cost of having all of the caliber conversions. If it were only 1 or 2 I would have gone with the 650.

That being said, I am very happy with my Hornady and wouldn't switch unless there was a good 7 station system that was affordable. Also, Hornady has been great to me with regard to service and replacement of parts that I broke in my "youth".
 
The grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. But you really have to take a real close look to make sure that the grass isn't just painted.

First, the Dillon press cost more than the Hornady. Then caliber conversions cost a lot more. Now I can do a caliber change from .223 to .45 in about 5 minutes, Dillon will take you at least 10 minutes.

Now for maintenance, I can clean and lube my Hornady press in under 10 minutes, and on the Dillon, it takes at least 30 minutes. Adjusting the timing I put together a timing kit to where I can time any Hornady primer, primer pawl, and die pawl in under 5 minutes. On the Dillon, it requires at least 30 min but Dillon will send you a tool to do this.

Now, did I do any modifications to my Hornadys? Hell yes, but I also did some modifications to my partners Dillon to get the "Dillon jerk out of it". He now has NO power spill.

Most of what you call "tweaking" I call "maintenance". If you adjust your press perfectly (either one) you won't have to keep going back and tweaking it. The last time I adjusted my presses (all four) was on May 23, 2015. And that was after a complete teardown, and rebuild. Like what happens when you all send your Dillons in for a rebuild.

Now on a side note. The way the op opened this post I thought it was going to be a press bashing free-for-all. I am glad I was wrong, and I have to thank you all. And I think it will help others.
 
Cost is a very large factor in many decisions more Lee presses have been purchased based on price than any other factor.

How many rounds a week you intend to load? Funny how someone will want to shoot 200-300 rounds a week and never look at the big picture.

Like, add up the price of the nonrecoverable components of the 10,000-15,000 rounds or think about how many years of use they would like to get out of the machine or how much they can get back out of the press if they decide they no longer want/can't reload.

I have Dillon presses I have used for over 30 years that I could sell today for more than twice what I paid for them new. Yes, actually worth more than what I paid for them despite loading hundreds of thousands of rounds over decades.

You can can't say that about very many presses. You can't even find parts for ones like the Hornady Projector or one of the many unsupported RCBS progressives made in the past, even if you wanted to pay for them.
 
Cost is a very large factor in many decisions more Lee presses have been purchased based on price than any other factor.

How many rounds a week you intend to load? Funny how someone will want to shoot 200-300 rounds a week and never look at the big picture.

Like, add up the price of the nonrecoverable components of the 10,000-15,000 rounds or think about how many years of use they would like to get out of the machine or how much they can get back out of the press if they decide they no longer want/can't reload.

I have Dillon presses I have used for over 30 years that I could sell today for more than twice what I paid for them new. Yes, actually worth more than what I paid for them despite loading hundreds of thousands of rounds over decades.

You can can't say that about very many presses. You can't even find parts for ones like the Hornady Projector or one of the many unsupported RCBS progressives made in the past, even if you wanted to pay for them.

thats a pretty good point, Dillon will still service and upgrade/update their old presses. and you can sell them for nearly what a new one sells for.
 
I made the switch to the 650 a couple months ago and while i never really had any issues with the lnl i will say that i like the dillon a lot better. I think it is a superior built machine over the hornady. I never had the case feeder with the lnl but i do have the bullet feed tube set up with the lee multi tube and it was a nice addition once the feed dies are set up correctly
 
Cost is a very large factor in many decisions more Lee presses have been purchased based on price than any other factor...

How many rounds a week you intend to load? Funny how someone will want to shoot 200-300 rounds a week and never look at the big picture.

I have Dillon presses I have used for over 30 years that I could sell today for more than twice what I paid for them new. Yes, actually worth more than what I paid for them despite loading hundreds of thousands of rounds over decades.
I don't think there's any doubt that if you are going to load hundreds of thousands of rounds a Dillon makes a lot a sense. But when you start loading you don't know if it's going to be something you want to pursue long-term, much less to that degree. Sure Dillons have good resale value, but if you buy one, find out reloading or the Dillon isn't for you, and resell in short order you are not going make money, in fact you are going to lose it. Probably more than a LCT costs. So while there's no comparison between a Dillon and a LCT, I don't agree that Lee products in general and the LCT in particular are generally chosen out of shortsightedness. Even if you throw the LCT in the bin after a month you haven't lost much.

The real calculation is what your time is worth. The LCT is a very cost-effective device, but of course you'll never glimpse the production rates of a true progressive, much less the best one on the market. I've priced a 650 setup, and it's easy to spend in excess of a thousand bucks. For the time being I'll continue to spend a few more hours a week with the LCT to save that money, and this is a consciously considered decision. I've loaded over 5,000 rounds on it in the last 6 months, and if that rate continues or even increases I agree 650 money would be well spent. But even in that case the LCT makes a great auxiliary station for load development, depriming and pulling bullets, so that's one more respect in which it's a low-risk buying decision.
 
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Sure Dillons have good resale value, but if you buy one, find out reloading or the Dillon isn't for you, and resell in short order you are not going make money, in fact you are going to lose it...

So while there's no comparison between a Dillon and a LCT, I don't agree that Lee products in general and the LCT in particular are generally chosen out of shortsightedness.
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I'll stick buy the fact that the numbers after the dollar sign have accounted for more Lee product sales than anyother factor. I have said myself that the LCT is likely the best value in reloading presses there is and that is by definition taking price into account.

Sure, if you get out of reloading "in short order" you are going to loose money, no one here would argue that. That said read how many threads where folks say "I started with "X" and sometime later bought a "Y" and boy I should have done that from the start." They are saying the first decision was at best a learning experience. No telling how many decide the hobby isn't for them right then and there, either, never moving on to better equipment.

As for 100,000 rounds being a lot, thats averaging less than 3500 per year over 30 years or less than 300/month ;)
 
I got an LNL about the same time you did, and in the beginning I did have some nagging issues, but I quickly figured out that almost all of them had to do with the priming system. When I started to really pay attention to forums like this I realized that many...maybe most...of the things people have issues with on their progressives are the priming systems. One day I just walked into the reloading room and completely removed the entire priming system from my LNL and the difference is like night and day. The press just flies along, and I never seem to have to stop except to replenish powder or switch calibers.

I actually prefer priming in a separate operation. I now size and deprime, wet tumble, then hand prime (I use the RCBS APS benchtop priming system). When it comes time to load I've got a stockpile of primed cases and the reloading process couldn't be much smoother or faster. I know people love their Dillons, and a friend has a 650 which he seems to like, but to tell you the truth, I think if I had to start all over again I'd get the LNL. I'd just take the priming system off and leave it in the box.
 
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