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Third Parties Making Life Tough for Bush, Kerry

Discussion in 'Legal' started by NIGHTWATCH, Jul 7, 2004.

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  1. NIGHTWATCH

    NIGHTWATCH Member

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    A "fart in a hurricane" huh? :mad:

    If gun owners alone voted Libertarian, the face of politics in America would change forever...


    Third parties making life difficult for Bush, Kerry
    By Steve Miller

    THE WASHINGTON TIMES
    Published July 6, 2004
    The Constitution Party has nominated a presidential candidate who wants to outlaw abortion. _Meanwhile, the Libertarian Party's presidential hopeful -- Michael Badnarik -- is taking pokes at President Bush, saying he is weak on gun rights._Independent candidate Ralph Nader's 5 percent in the presidential polls remains durable and reliable, even as he continues to hit obstacles in his ballot-access bids.

    Third parties, the bane of the political establishment, are making things tough on Mr. Bush and Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry, at least rhetorically.

    Michael A. Peroutka, who accepted the Constitution Party nomination June 25, appeared last week at a rally in Seattle with former Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore. Mr. Moore was removed from the bench last year after defying a federal judge's order to take down a monument of the Ten Commandments from the rotunda of the Alabama Judicial Building. Mr. Peroutka said his first priority as president would be to outlaw abortion, followed by establishing a government that acknowledges God.

    He added that government's purpose is not to provide health care or to educate children, and said such efforts are "socialist goals right out of the Communist Manifesto," said a report in the Seattle Times. _By aligning himself with Mr. Moore, the candidate seeks to garner some Republican voters who are unhappy with Mr. Bush's expansion of government and decry the country's move toward secularism.

    Mr. Badnarik, aware that his party pulls more disenchanted Republicans than anyone from the left, is taking a stab at Mr. Bush's efforts to mainstream his message at the expense of issues.

    Gun rights have long been among the top issues for Libertarians, and many took note when the Gun Owners of America issued an alert that Sen. Dianne Feinstein, California Democrat, was considering slipping her proposal to ban semiautomatic weapons into another bill, perhaps this week.
    The president, Mr. Badnarik said, has promised to sign a ban on semiautomatic weapons, but Republican lawmakers have prevented the measure from reaching a vote. "That Feinstein would use parliamentary procedure to slip in yet another attempt to deprive us of one of our most fundamental individual rights is not surprising," Mr. Badnarik said. "The even scarier issue is that Bush has already promised, in advance, to sign such a bill.
    "Clearly, when an issue as major as the assault weapons ban is supported by Feinstein, [Sen. Charles E.] Schumer [New York Democrat], Bush and [Sen. John W.] Warner [Virginia Republican], it is yet another indication that both of the major parties are, in fact, the same." _Meanwhile, the Green Party rebuffed Mr. Nader and nominated David Cobb. Mr. Nader continues to fight for ballot access in some key states.

    In Arizona, the Nader campaign last week was thwarted in its ballot access bid by two Democratic voters, who filed a lawsuit challenging the validity of a petition the campaign had submitted to get on the ballot.

    "The Democratic Party is doing everything it can to keep us from getting on ballots," Nader spokesman Kevin Zeese said. "It shows a real insecurity on their part and it shows that they are not confident that their candidate can get enough votes."



    http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040706-122141-4208r.htm
     
  2. BeLikeTrey

    BeLikeTrey Guest

    Scary but I'd vote for the constitution party...

    I just wish there was more support so they wouldn't serve as a spoiler to help Kerry win.
     
  3. NIGHTWATCH

    NIGHTWATCH Member

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    Someone here at THR once said that the Constitution Party was the LP for conservatives. When you look at their stance on abortion, I see why. :(

    Outlaw abortion? Never happen. Niether will advocating God on every corner. It is a different time. And any hope the CP has is lost by alienating democrats. Unlike the LP, which is appealing to disheartened members of both parties.

    2 cents.
     
  4. one-shot-one

    one-shot-one Member

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    NOT ALL

    not all dem's are pro-abortion.
    there are many "ethanic" christian groups
    who vote dem. for "social" reasons but do not
    agree with the abortion stance, this is not to say that
    they would ever vote Constitution Party but abortion is not
    the only voter strong hold for the dem. party.
     
  5. Boats

    Boats member

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    That is some delicious irony to see a LP'er tell someone else that their party is too fringe and too into positions that "are never going to happen."

    "Mr. Pot, allow me to introduce you to Mr. Kettle and his party. . . ."
     
  6. NIGHTWATCH

    NIGHTWATCH Member

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    Black kettle? :D LOL!

    Funny, but not true... sorry. ;)

    What political position best brings us as a nation together? Is it not tolerance? Resisting ignorance, religious or otherwise? And is not reducing government intrusion into our lives the goal? :( Whenever I hear the word "BAN", it just becomes another calling to an already violating government machine.

    If voting for the CP is a persons way of thinking, I say go for it. Im just thinking bout the bigger picture.
     
  7. Boats

    Boats member

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    I was only speaking about the CP's and LP's common taste for pie-in-the-sky positions, not their means or goals.
     
  8. MrAcheson

    MrAcheson Member

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    Funny I don't see Bush shaking in his boots like Kerry is over Nader.
     
  9. halvey

    halvey Member

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    Sure, if you could get a LP member elected to the House, they'd sit and take notice. But, in this close election, I don't think its a good idea.
     
  10. davec

    davec Member

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    no way, "progressives" HATE the libertarian philosophy.

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/07/02_good.html

    yes, I know its democratic underground, but this article is a pretty well written and defense of the "progressive" stance against individual liberty.

    I don't agree with a word of it, but its good to know what the bad guys are thinking.

    also see : http://gadfly.igc.org/papers/liberty.htm


    The "progressive" philosophy is anti individual liberty and therefore anathema to libertarianism.
     
  11. Walking Wounded

    Walking Wounded Member

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    They're still insignificant. There arent enough people who subscribe to libertarian party ideas to make them a real threat to the republicans. "fart in a hurricane" is the best way to describe their effect.
     
  12. NIGHTWATCH

    NIGHTWATCH Member

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    The truth is that most people I know dont even know who the LP is. Who? Wha? is the look I get when I start speaking about them. So from what I see, it is a matter of exposure. Because most people, once I speak on the LP platform, agree.

    What I cant get around is that here I am on a 2nd Amendment forum, having to state my case for a libertarian vote to gun owners :confused:


    Michael Badnarik on the 2nd Amendment:
    Why would / should I have to push this? Makes no sense. headscratch.gif

    The truth marches on ... [​IMG]
     
  13. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    We need at least four or five political parties, all yelling and screaming and hopping up and down and slugging it out in a truly serious way for votes. Competition is a good thing, which explains why the Republicrats and Democans are so vehemently opposed to it.
     
  14. fix

    fix Member

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    If pigs had wings

    But what exactly do you tell them? Do they all just love that open borders policy, or is it a case of "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!!" while you wax poetic about guns and taxes?
     
  15. Michigander

    Michigander Member

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    And it shows a real disdain for "democracy" as well.


    As opposed to the border policy we have now?
     
  16. fix

    fix Member

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    Because it has strings attached...like this:

    Blame America first. Where have I heard that tripe before?

    :barf:
     
  17. fix

    fix Member

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    I don't know anyone who likes the lax policy we have now? Why on earth would we want the Libertarian policy that is several magnitudes worse?
     
  18. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Well, I imagine some (like myself) find the LPs view on foreign policy and terrorism to be incompatible with real world principles even though I share a lot of libertarian ideas.

    Also, the fact is that the LP needed to lay the groundwork for this election eight years or so earlier and they didn't. As a result, Badarnik is not going to win this election. At best, he can play a spoiler and throw the election to Kerry. This may or may not result in a more libertarian minded Republican party depending on how the Greens and Nader do by comparison.

    If playing the spoiler is what it takes to change policy, then I am OK with that; but not this election with this Democratic candidate and an ongoing war.

    Something like 1/3 of gun owners voted for a guy who was promising handgun registration and licensing of guns in the last election. If gun owners ever voted as a bloc for any philosophy, it would be THE philsophy of America.
     
  19. fjolnirsson

    fjolnirsson Member

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    Whose God? My God? Or your God? Maybe somebody else's God? Yaweh? Allah? How about Wodan?

    The problem with "recognizing God" is that not everyone recognizes one particular god. If the government "recognizes God", do all the atheists get deported? My ancestors were well known for throwing missionaries overboard. We don't need a holy war in America. We already have one in Iraq.

    Personally, I don't have a problem with the pledge, or the ten commandments, or crosses on the town seal. I think stripping Christmas from schools is silly.
    I just ignore what I don't like. It doesn't affect me. I do get a little peeved when I can't go out for coffee on Christmas day. But that's because I forget it's Christmas until I'm driving around a deserted city.

    I think things were just fine before folks started getting all offended about religion, one way or another. But I don't want the Government shoving somebody else's god down my throat, either. Mine serve me well, thank you.

    Just my opinion.
     
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