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This is my last Hollywood rant -- I PROMISE!!!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by heavyshooter, Nov 21, 2008.

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  1. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    Why does every LEO and bad guy on television carry his weapon without a bullet in the chamber? Every time it is time to fight crime the good guy unholsters his weapon and racks the slide. I know what you're thinking. It no big deal, they do it for the dramatic affect. Here’s why it annoys me. These are the same people who gave the impression that the "new innovative plastic glock" can pass through airport security (see Bruce Willis and Die Hard). These are the same people who have taught that "tactical rifles" are used only by SWAT, the military, and bank robbers. These are the same people who have said that all guns should be outlawed and they insult Tom Selleck on their talk show for his NRA endorsement (see Rosie O'Donald -- never mind her armed body guards).

    I mention this because it gives insight into the ignorance of those who are going to implement laws that I must adhere to. :banghead: I live during a season when actors and musicians dictate (or heavily influence) public policy. If you do not believe that is true, pay very close attention to the unique laws of California.

    I am sorry about my rant, but I am realizing that in 2 months my "High Capacity Magazines" will become collectors’ items. It's annoying!

    Heavy
     
  2. M203Sniper

    M203Sniper member

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    Just to play devil's advocate for a minute here;

    After spending 8 years in the Marines and now a few years carrying the M9 on a professional level, I can tell you this for a fact. The US military knows less about sidearms than Hollywood does.

    I have never carried with a round in the chamber on a Federal installation. It's the policy. We train to Slingshot the slide, and qualify like that on a simple speed and accuracy course. Talk about :banghead: for the gun guys....

    You recognize that it is fiction on the silver screen = true, but realize that you may see that exact scenario in Real life, depending on where a shooter got trained and by whom. :)
     
  3. MasterSergeantA

    MasterSergeantA Member

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    I feel your pain

    Heavy,

    You are correct that the entertainment industry is putting out bad "information". Look at movie silencers, for instance. (And talk about 'high capacity' magazines...I want one of the ones they use in THOSE guns...holds about a gazillion rounds.) I have seen bad training in my 41 years in uniform as well. Right now, here in Baghdad, the troops are required to carry a magazine for their weapon at all times. BUT they are not permitted to put the magazine IN the weapon until instructed to do so. A lot of them keep a rag or something wedged way up inside the magazine well so they don't have to clean it as often. Getting it out in a hurry will be a chore...and their leaders don't correct the problem.
     
  4. yeti

    yeti Member

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    This made me laugh. I was watching some old dog of a movie on The Bad Movie Channel last night, rolling on the floor with laughter. Every time the Good Guy drew he racked, every change of angle he racked, every noise in the dark, he racked. In one scene he racked his slide 3 times before he took his first shot. It was stupid, but he did look good doing it. Though I do seem to remember him also getting off a couple of great shots after the slide locked back.
     
  5. Bozo

    Bozo Member

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    The entertainment industry is NOT putting out bad information. It is making movies, it is NOT real. It is acting, plain and simple. You are not supposed to believe it is real or that you should get your education from it.
     
  6. foghornl

    foghornl Member

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    The "Click!" of the hammer falling on an empty {slide locked back} Glock, XD, 1911, etc.

    Obvious 6-shot revolvers that shoot about 30 rounds before reloading.
     
  7. Golden Hound

    Golden Hound Member

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    I don't buy that excuse. I think that movies should strive for realism. That's what separates a good movie from a great movie. A movie wouldn't show a guy driving a car with one hand up his ass and the other hand in the ashtray. Because that's not how you drive a car.

    But for some reason, the people in Hollywood feel that they can screw up the little details of life and not get called on it. There are many examples of this, not just guns. There's the fact that every time someone orders a beer at a bar in a movie, they always just say "I'll have a beer." They never specify what kind of beer they want, the always just say "a beer." Who EVER does that in real life? It's one of those stupid things that ruins my suspension of disbelief. One of the other big ones for me is the "555" for the first three numbers of almost all movie phone numbers. It's like a giant red flashing sign saying "MOVIE! MOVIE! NOT REAL!" but I want my movies to feel like reality. I think they should either have real phone numbers, or find a way to not reference the specific phone number at all. On the rare occasions that they actually use a real phone number, not a 555 one, in a movie, I take note of it. For instance, in "The Departed." I remember watching that and thinking to myself, "hey, they used a real number instead of a 555 one."

    Other people who are not as astute and aware might not mind, but for someone like myself who observes every conceivable detail, movie gaffes are very annoying. And especially when it comes to guns.

    It's not like it's that hard to figure out the correct information about guns. As mechanical systems go, they're pretty simple. All they would need to do to be realistic in a movie is get their calibers and their firearm terminology straight, and train their actors to hold the guns properly (finger off the trigger, pointed in safe direction) especially if the actors are portraying guys who are supposed to be cops or special-forces soldiers. But they don't, and so most movies look laughably unrealistic to anyone who knows the first thing about guns.

    When they do make a movie that's halfway realistic, the gun people take note. The prime example is HEAT. (Although even HEAT has some errors - for instance, the robbers have a bunch of empty magazines strapped to their vests - you can see the followers. I don't know why or how they screwed that up.)

    A director who is truly great will learn all that he can learn about whatever subject he's making the movie about. Stanley Kubrick obviously did, for Full Metal Jacket, and made a point of detailing all the drilling and field-stripping of the M14 rifles very accurately, and for that reason, gun people love that movie. A mediocre director will half-ass his way through the real-life details of the movie, and therefore, the movie won't be great, it'll just be mediocre at best.
     
  8. 6_gunner

    6_gunner Member

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    I agree. I actually like some of the movies with the most inaccurate gun portrayals; especially when I feel like it's done intentionally for dramatic effect, rather than just out of ignorance. One example is Last Man Standing. The gunfights were ridiculous. Bruce Willis' 1911s were infinite capacity and blew people half-way across the street, but it was a very entertaining movie.

    The problem is when people who are ignorant of firearms see such inaccurate movies and think that they represent reality. Much of the fear which people have of firearms is probably due to what they see in movies. When some of the antis talk about guns, it is obvious that their knowledge of them is based only on what they see in movies.

    It also encourages dangerous behavior, because many people handle firearms based on what they see in movies.

    We probably shouldn't criticize Hollywood too much, because their goal is to entertain people; not to educate them. However, it is frustrating, because it makes the job of educating people about firearms much more difficult.
     
  9. Phil DeGraves

    Phil DeGraves Member

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    No that is incorrect. A movie, accurate or not is supposed to make you suspend your disbelief. You do this by making it as realistic as possible (unless of course, you are spoofing it; then it's okay). If the director wants us to take his story seriously, then he should have the wherewithal, integrity and conscientiousness to PAY ATTENTION TO DETAIL. It doesn't HAVE to be realistic, but it has to APPEAR to be realistic. Racking the action three times before firing isn't even trying to be realistic in my opinion.

    And the uninformed morons watching it DO believe it's true.
     
  10. RKBABob

    RKBABob Member

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    Of course... Everyone knows you're supposed to hang your left arm out the window, smoke with your right hand, and look your passenger in the eyes during any sort of dialog, all without slowing down or crashing.

    Seriously, though... They never stop to think "Gee, maybe I better do a little research, or 25 million people might think I'm foolish." I'm suprised there was never a full-auto revolver shown in the movies.
     
  11. CentralTexas

    CentralTexas Member

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    Look at it like this

    If the average family drama movie showed the actor glance at the New York city limit sign, then his car's gas gauge on "E", and then showed him passing the Dallas city limit sign a few minutes later...
    Or, the actor being late for her wedding looking at her speedometer showing her traveling 300mph or the car jumping over other slower cars wouldn't the average movie goer feel insulted?
    The director would never allow that in a reality drama, because the average watcher would reject it as unrealistic.
    When it comes to medicine, forensics, the law, guns, the military etc. the movie makers/writers aren't too concerned with getting it right -as they feel the "average" person won't know, or it makes for a better film if they "stretch" things.
    And has been already said, that's what seperates the greats from the mediocre...
     
  12. MikePGS

    MikePGS Member

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    Sure they may be inaccurate, but at least hollywood movies are both well written and entirely original :rolleyes:
     
  13. Golden Hound

    Golden Hound Member

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    I thought There Will Be Blood was a spectacular movie in every sense of the word, but when that 8 year old kid was shooting quail with a boomstick that was bigger than he was, with no recoil whatsoever, I had to laugh.
     
  14. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

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    If Hollywood irritates you so much, stop supporting their products.
     
  15. yeti

    yeti Member

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    There was an extremely short lived detective program on TV a few(probably 10 years ago now) years ago, a Mike Hammer type tough guy private dick thing. The lead actor was a fairly well known semi thug guy, who's name I can't recall, but he is always the dark, brooding, violent guy. Any way the show was set in the 1950's, and the producer made a real big deal about how much effort went into making every little detail, period correct. No detail was to minor, they spent a small fortune getting it perfect, right down to the 1950's dust in the air, and beer cans needing church keys to get to their nectar. It was perfect, nothing was missed, everything felt so right, right up until the moment our hero opened a box of .45's, tilted the box up, and out slid all those bright, shining, .45 cartridges, neatly nestled in their white plastic tray.:scrutiny::confused::what: I damn near wet my pants!

    But it was still a great show, for the few episodes that aired. To bad the tough guy actor was a real thug in life.:banghead:

    In a world where Danny DeVito is a romantic lead, I can laugh at multiple gun flubs.:D
     
  16. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    This is an excellent point. The need to create artificial drama is a self imposed need. We have developed the need for a racked slide because it happens so often in movies. Don't choke on the irony; movies must do it because all previous movies have done it. :mad: This has resulted in the dumming down of America (this does not apply only to guns).

    I also want to point out how insulting it can be to those who have had the real life experince. I have never been in a war zone, but I recall a friend who, after seeing Saving Private Ryan, cried because the opening seen accurately depicted his experince in Vietnam. He said that he noticed how often the soldiers in bad war movies would run over and check the vitals of their fallen comrads. Through tears he assured me that he rarely had to check.


    This explains the immanent ban on "tactical rifles" and "High Capacity Mags." It also explains the prevalence of the horizontal gun hold ("gangster style"), and the belief that hero Jack Bauer (24) can double tap 20 terrorists with his Heckler and Koch without a spare mag in sight and no one questions it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2008
  17. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    Clearly you do not watch CSI Miami. Rugers are not automatic, but they are "very rare." :)

    Okay, that's my last CSI jab. I PROMISE :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2008
  18. mp510

    mp510 Member

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    It's for cinematic effect probably.
     
  19. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

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    Bad Information?

    Hollywood not putting out bad information?

    That depends.

    There are people for whom the stuff coming out of Hollywood IS information.

    Ban on armor-piercing cop-killer Teflon-coated bullets?

    Where do you imagine that "bad information" came from?

    That's pure Hollywood, enshrined in law.

    So, considering the folks that actually DO see that stuff as "information," I would have to say that -- until education actually educates people on actual facts so they can tell the freakin' difference -- Hollywood is, indeed, putting out bad information.

    They "educate" our lawmakers.

    Be afraid. Be very afraid.

     
  20. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    mp510 has it right. It's a way to convey to the audience that the character is preparing to go into action.
     
  21. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Novels aren't any better.
    I just read one of Clive Custlers latest.
    (Custler is a guy who mostly gets his facts on straight)

    In it, the bad guy always wraps an old bath towel tightly around his 1902 Colt .38 Automatic to muffle the sound.
    Then proceeds to shoot three or four people dead with it before they know what is happening.
    (Folks on the other side of a door can't hear the shots!)

    No explaination on how the empties get out of the gun with a towel wrapped around it!

    The book before that had the hero loading his S&W ".45 Colt" revolver with a "clip" holding 8 rounds.
    And then clicking the safety on! :banghead:

    Quite frankly, gun mistakes of that magnitude ruin the whole book for me, even if it is a good book!

    As far as modern TV fair goes, "The Unit" comes as close as anything to doing it right, most of the time. Heck, they got pinned down and actually ran out of ammo the other night!

    rcmodel
     
  22. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, because The Matrix wasn't one of the most ground-breakingly awesome films ever made due to a lack of realism.
     
  23. McCall911

    McCall911 Member

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    Yes, I agree that such silliness is only for dramatic effect. It's like a visual/audible reminder to the audience that the character has a loaded "weapon" and may be about to use it.

    Such things remind me of the old Westerns where the shooters "threw" the bullets from the barrel of their Colt SAA's, as if such a practice gave the bullets extra velocity. :D
     
  24. Sinixstar

    Sinixstar member

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    It's called suspension of disbelief. It's a pretty big component to movie making. Movies are not real, so getting bogged down in the detail of trying to make them real is an exercise in futility. You will never be able to script something, and have it go down the same way a *real* scenario would. You make movies for entertainment value, not reality value.

    As for "beer" - that has more to do with product placement agreements, etc. Also if you notice - a lot of times the bottles are not in focus - or the label is turned around so you can't see what kinda beer it is.

    The debate about whether hollywood puts out bad information or not is - well. Silly. Hollywood is ENTERTAINMENT not EDUCATION.
    If people use movies for their education, well, that's just sad. Can hardly blame the producers or directors for that. Their job is not to educate, their goal is not to educate. Their goal is to entertain, and make money in the process. If stupid people want to substitute education for entertainment -that's just, well... stupid. :)
     
  25. misANTHrope

    misANTHrope Member

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    Re: the usage of 555- phone numbers in movies:

    I have to ask... would you want your phone number broadcast in cinemas across the nation? Because that's the reason for using 555- numbers; they're always invalid. Better than putting a real number on the screen, and then having thousands of folks call the thing just for the hell of it.
     
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