This looks like it could end poorly.

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by J.R.W., May 12, 2014.

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  1. J.R.W.

    J.R.W. Member

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    While killing a couple minutes on facebook earlier, I stumbled across these:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8xSNiPx791A

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_3215710535&feature=iv&src_vid=8xSNiPx791A&v=MkOGb5_ML_8

    While I realize these are elaborate pranks, I would think that a reasonable person would be put in fear for their life. Especially in the video with the axe you can hear the metal head scraping the ground. Gladly it appears this is happening in Europe but I tend to think it would hard to argue against a response with lethal force if I were placed in either of these situations.
     
  2. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Member

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    What does this have to do with firearms?
     
  3. J.R.W.

    J.R.W. Member

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    Lethal response to a perceived threat?
     
  4. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Uh, yup. A bad prank could end badly and sometimes does. Ok.
     
  5. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    You lost me at Facebook.
    Sorry .
     
  6. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Member

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    And our first response to a bad prank like that is to draw and open fire? Actually your first response to seeing a VIDEO of that is to think about drawing and opening fire? I see lots of stupid videos on YouTube and I never think about posting them here, on a site devoted to RKBA and 2nd amendment issues.

    I don't know why you made the connection. Get scared = draw? :what:
     
  7. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Exactly. The "reasonable man" standard. A threat does not have to be TRULY real for you you believe completely, and reasonably, that it is so. That's why folks have been exonerated after shooting a robber who was threatening them with a gun that turned out to be unloaded, or even fake.

    The defendant will say, "Yes, I shot the deceased, I felt that I had to in order to prevent my being killed right that moment." The jury will then be asked to decide whether that fear of imminent death was reasonable, given what the defendant knew at the time. They will put themselves in the shoes of the defendant and ask, "what would I have thought if I saw that flash before my eyes? Would I have thought I was about to die? Would I have tried to save my life by any means?"

    Now, the more outrageous and absurd the "threat" is, perhaps the less a DA and/or jury will consider your belief to be reasonable.

    Someone dressed as a cartoonish space alien threatening you with a Buck Rogers ray gun might not be considered to have instilled a reasonable fear of death.

    Someone appearing as a homicidal nut in a clown suit, who appears to have just committed a murder within feet of you and then chases you with a weapon? (Or appears to be trying to commit arson of you and your car?) That would likely be a slam-dunk self-defense case.

    One might wonder, if witnessing a pretty convincing homicide and then being chased with the murder weapon is NOT the time to draw and engage, when would that time be, exactly? :scrutiny:

    Too bad it was "just a prank."

    Some times life is for real and has consequences.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  8. rondog

    rondog Member

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    Some people's kids.....
     
  9. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    Do I have to watch the videos to see what they're about?

    I'll pass.
     
  10. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    The videos depict a series of very elaborate pranks staged for "candid camera" type video, staged at night in a parking garage and a lonely gas station. The actor(s) are dressed in a farcical "evil clown" costume and perform a set of realistically simulated very violent acts just as the "marks" walk into view. Usually this consists of smashing the fake-blood-filled head of a humanoid dummy lying on the pavement with a large hammer, then "noticing" the marks and taking off in chase of them as though trying to kill the witnesses.

    In one set the evil clown character silently approaches someone filling their car at a gas pump and produces a large gas can (probably full of water) and proceeds to douse the mark's car and ground around him and the pumps with fake "gas" while the mark gets more and more alarmed about what he'll do next.

    In the second video, the marks approach a park bench, again late at night, where someone (a dummy) is sitting and when they're a few yards off, the actor rushes into the scene and "murders" the dummy with an axe right in front of them, then takes off chasing them.

    Suffice to say, these are far more than realistically portrayed enough to meet a "reasonable man" standard.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  11. dab102999

    dab102999 Member

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    I would say a few of those clips would easily be a reasonable harm sinario. Expecially when the clown was hiding in the bushes in a barely lit park. Some of these videos used to be funny because they were just obviously pranks. But now they are pushing envalope to make it more realistic and I fear that there will be a case of presumed self defense because of one.
     
  12. Fred_G

    Fred_G Member

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    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    The second video, would be a good shoot, especially when filmed.
     
  13. Atom Smasher

    Atom Smasher Member

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    Perceived threat is a pretty scary idea. All you can do in any given scenario is operate on the data you have so far. There are tons of "reality" videos like this where any sane person could potentially consider their lives in danger. If that person also happens to be armed, it could be disastrous.
     
  14. Hometeached1

    Hometeached1 Member

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    I have not watched the videos, but have seen others that sound like it. There have been several that would have ended very badly if someone had been armed, like one where as the "mark" is getting on a elevator they witness a man strangling a man. Most of the people ran, but one lady started hitting the guy with her umbrella.

    When would you think YOU needed to draw in SD OptimusPrime.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  15. skoro

    skoro Member

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    It has the definite potential to end badly for the pranksters in a locale with CCW.

    These pranks appear to be taking place in Europe, where the populace is unarmed, so it's a different ballgame there.
     
  16. Ryanxia

    Ryanxia Member

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    I've thought of this before watching these realistic 'prank' videos. I even saw one where a guy drew his CCW but luckily it stopped right there which I think would hopefully be the situation if it ever got that far (the drawing of a gun causes the 'prankster' to break character, with the armed person holding fire in return).

    Now that myself and most of my friends carry we've had to severely refine our 'pranking' to one another to more subtle options. I took a cable lock and looped it through the muzzle break of my buddy's .50 cal and then we hid the key in a box of other keys. :) Stupid little stuff like that.
     
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