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This price seems high for a 3rd gen S&W...

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Trey Veston, Aug 3, 2021.

  1. Trey Veston

    Trey Veston Member

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    Stopped at my LGS to look for primers and powder (none, of course) and was looking at the gun case and they had some used pistols.

    Saw the S&W 4566 that looked to be in pretty good shape, but got sticker shock when I saw they were asking $1200 for it.

    Seems I could get a pretty nice 1911 for that kind of money.

    But, it did say it came with 5 magazines, a holster, and 76 rounds of .45 acp. All that is worth maybe $120. So $1080 for just the pistol? Still seems high to me. But, maybe it's a really sought after model?

    IMG_20210803_150447765.jpg

    The Ruger SP101 for $600 next to it seemed high as well. The Zev 029C started at $1300 and was now at $1100. No idea what those are worth.

    Seems like folks are trying to get premium prices at the end of the shortage. I sold a S&W M&P40c for $50 more than I paid for it 2 years prior, and after I pirated the factory night sights off of it. But, that was months ago during the height of the panic.
     
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  2. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Aftermarket grips too.....

    The all-stainless mags are going for close to $100 each on ebay, the ones with plastic followers and baseplates about half that.

    IMO, the gun itself is worth maybe $800 in perfect condition, subtracting $50 for the grips. YMMV of course.
     
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  3. Homerboy

    Homerboy Member

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    I got an excellent 4566 18 months ago for $549. Came with three factory mags.
     
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  4. defjon

    defjon Member

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    Yowza! Sky high to me.

    600 dollar sp 101s are kind of the norm now...
     
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  5. Pelo801

    Pelo801 Member

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    The 3rd gen 45 acp's have been getting a premium over the other 3rd gens of other calibers for a while now. But that's out of line, IMHO. I just came into a 4586 for less than 500 including shipping and transfer.
     
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  6. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    My local shop/range had a used 45 Colt Redhawk available at about $200 more than advertised retail. It had been in the display case for around two years at that price. I finally made a "pity offer" of about $500 less. The shop guy said he'd run it by the owner, and a week later told me the fellow had turned it down. Somebody said "Consignments. What're ya gonna do" which was followed by shrugs all around.
     
  7. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    Guns & Firearms for Sale | GunBroker.com

    These are actual prices for Completed Items, some of which sold.
    I don't remember what TSW means, might be an LEO series.

    Trey Veston: if that gun gets no offers at all (how long has it already been in the case...) ,
    maybe they will come down to $900 or so, if you show the manager that You Know what these now sell for, if in very good condition.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
  8. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

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    Yeah, the guys at the Museum go as high as 800$, sometimes, for a GEN II or GEN III, but that's a little opportunistic, to be kind.
     
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  9. ms6852

    ms6852 Member

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    I would not go more than $500 for the 4566 gun only! They are still taking advantage of the market and gouging. Soon enough there will be a sucker paying that price.
     
  10. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    High price even in the greater Puget Sound area, home of sky-high, ridiculous used-gun prices.

    I won't even factor in the cost of a box and a half of ammo.

    That said, I adore 3rd Gen S&W pistols and will normally pay upwards of a grand for one in 9mm or .45 ACP in excellent condition.
     
  11. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    I have always known it as Team Smith & Wesson but overwhelming evidence supports it more likely stands for Tactical Smith & Wesson. In the 90s S&W developed a cartridge called the .356 TSW for competition that was DOA because of rule changes. That one has been known as Team Smith & Wesson.

    The guns with TSW suffix may in fact be “Tactical” as they often had rails incorporated into the frame but also had the word “Tactical” emblazoned on the side of the slide. Many had rails and many people think this is a defining feature but the 3953TSW does not. Other features included tighter tolerances and a few TSW specific models.
     
  12. wnycollector

    wnycollector Member

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    The price seems high to me. I currently have 14 third gen S&W's in my collection. I picked up the last two (Model's 915 and 4026) this year at reasonable prices ($300 and $425 respectively). I think you can still find a 4566 with extra mags for less than $750 if you do your homework.
     
  13. Mr. Hill

    Mr. Hill Member

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    Too much for what you get. 3rd gen guns are ok, but not worth that much. I’d pass.
     
  14. dodo bird

    dodo bird Member

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    Too high for sure. Great guns but not that great for the price.
     
  15. Drail

    Drail Member

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    The dealer is out of his mind......... that said he just might find a buyer that dumb.
     
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  16. shoobe01

    shoobe01 Member

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    It is for sure "Tactical" for TSW serial guns. They were mostly sold as having "tactical" features like more checkering or whatever but is this not the series with the change in dwell time also? 98% sure myself but cannot find reference now. Milliseconds I am sure, but it allowed pressure to drop so slide velocity is lower and felt recoil is subsequently reduced. Still can be shot as fast, and /I think/ the same locking geometry and technology for manufacturing (dunno what, but there were changes) was put into the M&P series.
     
  17. lysanderxiii

    lysanderxiii Member

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    If it doesn't sell at that price, it's over-priced, otherwise . . . it was properly priced.
     
  18. sparkyfender

    sparkyfender Member

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    Too high for my tastes, but what do I know? The pre lock Smith revolvers and 3rd Gen semi autos I have seen lately are just about all sporting eyebrow raising price tags.

    I suspect they are either truly overpriced or I am getting out of touch as I age. Probably the latter.
     
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  19. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    I think I get what you're saying to say...

    "Trey is only allowed to turn a profit during shortages"?

    o_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_O
     
  20. Old_Grouch

    Old_Grouch Member

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  21. Trey Veston

    Trey Veston Member

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    I didn't say no one was allowed to turn a profit. I was just observing what seems to be happening. I sold a few guns the past year and made quite a bit of profit. I also bought a few guns and paid more than what I should have. It's just the way things were the past year and a half.
     
  22. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    I got to thinking, Trey, that I haven't seen any decent specimens of 3rd Gen Smiths in .45 lately. I know the 4566 was carried up until a few years ago by some state police agencies, and is considered a bit easier to pack than the longer-barreled 4506 (my personal favorite).

    I'd revise my earlier assessment and say whether or not the price is too high is entirely dependent on the condition of the piece (I still don't factor in any extras), it's relative scarceness these days (like I said, I don't see many of these for sale used anymore) and your willingness to pay the ticket. I am the poster child for overpaying for used guns -- hell, I've outbid guys at my LGS counter when we've both spotted desirable used guns at the same time -- if I can afford it, in the words of the late, great Freddie Mercury, "I want it all, and I want it NOW."
     
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  23. lysanderxiii

    lysanderxiii Member

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    Come back in seven days . . .
     
  24. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

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    Yeah, I've paid some serious bone-in prices for some used guns, but, usually, I'd like to buy them, BEFORE I die. There's always somebody who's going to buzzkill you, approximately 15 minutes post purchase, about how "you paid too much", or "it's only worth xxx$", but go look at THEIR gun collection, some time. Sad
    artifacts they got, at below book value, which usually were hardly worth all the time they sandbagged, waiting for a great "price".
     
  25. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    Outside the interest group, some guns do look high priced. Waht are HK P7's running now? Over the original MSRP $1200. They aren't really that special, like any, it pushes a bullet down a barrel when you pull on the dingus.

    It's people bidding them up because they are "enhanced groin jewelry" to put it politely. A lot of what guns are is just a tube and some way to put the ammo in it. The ammo does the work. The tube is just that same as the cardboard ones that litter the yard on July 5th, just a lot more reusable.

    Yes, I have a 4566 TSW, apparently a TX LEO service pistol, which came on the market a few years back when 3Gens were already appreciating. The 10mm's were already bid off the market, they went for hundreds more than the .45 or 9mm. It's now working down - one local gun show 2 years ago still had some trade-ins for under $400 but that is quickly getting rare when folks look up the high prices on Almost Never Been Carried models with matching boxes and mags. Chiefs Specials are getting rare, too, and Ladysmiths in normal colors have just about dried up.

    The TSW is apparently the first LEO handgun on the market with a rail, in the days when one maker had the market to himself, and that is a not a picitinny, either. It's riveted on and was meant for the first introductory lights and lasers available in the mid 90's. Mine showed very little wear in the notches and likely never had one mounted. On the S&W forum website there is an explanation of what internal differences there are, one being the barrel ramp having slightly different shape to slow unlocking (as said) and the better models are actually the MIM hammer and sear which are smooth, no grinding marks, and whicn were considered some of the best out of the box for a working SW. It's frequently described as almost custom shop in it's lack of grittines and crisp break, which is common for MIM. It's a process which needs no further work as it's a finished part once sintered. A typical machined trigger needs extensive finishing to remove all the blanking, grinding to shape, and rough finish.

    Some TSW owners have removed the rail - as holsters are a pain to find that accomodate it. The integral rail models came after and there's no choice over it. The tritium sights are from the mid 90s and are typically dead as the half life is 5-7 years, and it's been over 25.

    The reason I bought it? The Army scheduled pistol trials for 1954 to supercede the 1911, as it was considered obsolete and heavy. They specified a 9mm 4" barrel, DA/SA, lightweight, and wrote those with the Walther P38 in mind. Colt and HR (? IIRC) submitted, then S&W entered late with the M39. Beancounters reminded everyone 2.5 million 1911's in service and millions of rounds of ammo would be expensive to replace, and Command gave it up because Korea. Handguns are not a priority in the service and another 30 years later the Beretta M9 - a Walther based pistol, too - was finally adopted.

    Smith had already done all the work and went into production, in the late 60's it was adopted by the Illinois State Police and after that most departments looked over auto pistols as a replacement for all their revolvers. As that market was mostly Colt and Smith, they rode the wave of adoption and became the most commonly issued auto for LEO's. Then Glock appeared.

    I see the 4566 TSW as the .45 equivalent of what we could have had rather than the 1911 for another tour of duty and a third arsenal rebuild. The Navy did buy them for the SEALS in a suppressed version. There is really a lot more history to the Smith autos than many know right now, because a lot of that did not jump from print media to the internet. Those in the know are who snap them up. An all metal duty pistol is practically non existent any more, the M9 superceded and most production has moved to polymer. If you want an American piece of firearms history the Smith 3Gens are the last.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2021
    18DAI likes this.
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