Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

this seems strange, even by California standards

Discussion in 'Legal' started by alan, Aug 5, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. alan

    alan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,598
    Location:
    sowest pa.
    Posters Note:

    If the prosecutor has real evidence of illegal acts by any of the people served, let him bring charges. Otherwise, since when does SUSPICION justify, IN THIS COUNTRY, SUCH ABROGATION OF BASIC CIVIL RIGHTS? I find myself rather curious on that score.

    OPINION RELEASE: More Police State Of America CLOSING IN


    Gangs of West Sac
    In California, anyone can be a gangster
    _Kerry Howley_ (mailto:khowley@reason.com)



    Sergio Flores, 25, says he didn't know he was a gangster until the state of
    California told him he was. Last February, the police department of West
    Sacramento served him with an injunction stating that as a member of The
    Broderick Boys, a local Latino gang, he had lost the right to move around the
    neighborhood of Broderick-where he happens to live-after 10 PM. Flores told
    the _Sacramento News and Review_
    (http://www.newsreview.com/issues/sacto/2005-06-23/cover.asp) that he was never told what, exactly, qualifies him as a member of the gang.
    "It doesn't make any sense. There are some bad guys out there, but I don't
    know them," he says. Flores is one of 95 people who have lost the right to move freely in a 3-square-mile swath of West Sacramento. They have each been served with a _Civil Gang Injunction_ (http://www.oxnardpd.org/misc/GangInjunction.htm) , a
    crime-fighting tactic that has become increasingly popular with district
    attorneys across California. In February the local D.A.s imposed restrictions on
    suspected gang members within a declared "safety zone." Alleged Broderick Boys are not allowed on Broderick's streets past 10 p.m., nor are they allowed to communicate with other alleged gang members in public, day or night.
    Curfews have an ugly history in the U.S., from restrictions placed on
    Japanese Americans in WWII to Jim Crow laws that kept blacks indoors in the
    South.
    More recently, _youth curfews_ (http://reason.com/9911/fe.md.do.shtml) have orced kids inside after dark and during school hours. They typically yield suburban horror stories about 16-year-olds harassed on the way back from band practice or home-schooled teens getting routinely picked up. When kids are targeted, however, it's arguably straightforward for police to determine whom to send indoors once the curfew hits. But very little
    distinguishes a gang member in West Sacramento-an actual Broderick Boy-from a boy who happens to live in Broderick. Police are left to weed one from the other. That could be hard. According to Martha Garcia, who is leading a _grassroots protest_ (http://westsacramento-gang.blogspot.com/) against the injunction, they're one and the same. "A Broderick Boy is a boy who was raised in Broderick," she says. "The Broderick Boys are not a gang. They are not in any form an institution." Other residents say the gang hasn't been active for years. "There were Broderick Boys, back in the 1970s. Those guys are all like 50 now," one community member told the Sacramento News and Review. Aged or otherwise, Local Police Chief Dan Drummond says they're still in force, and they're responsible for precisely 853 crimes over the past three and a half years. He also says he knows who they are. There are eleven criteria used to "validate," or declare someone a gang member. Wearing gang colors like red and blue, sporting a certain tattoo, or being seen in a photograph with another gang member all count.
    Garcia says some of the criteria are simply fashionable clothing labels,
    like Nor Cal, or symbols important to the local Latino population, such as the
    _United Farm Workers logo_ (http://www.backspace.com/notes/2003/05/06/x.html) .
    Local papers and Web logs are rife with accounts of men who must now stay
    indoors after 10 p.m. because they wore the wrong colors, sport the wrong
    tattoos or were photographed in the wrong company years ago. Some 95 people have been served with the injunction, which theoretically lasts forever. Many reportedly live in the confines of the safety zone. For as long as they stay in Broderick, they're under lifetime house arrest past 10 p.m.
    The ACLU of Northern California filed a motion last Friday to _halt the
    injunction_ (http://www.aclunc.org/pressrel/050728-broderick.html) , arguing that it makes no sense to treat a gang as a single association. When prosecutors file injunctions against corporations, notice is given to an official representative. The Broderick Boys have no formal organization and no clearly established hierarchy. So public prosecutors simply pick a gang member, notify him, and expect news of the injunction to spread by word of mouth.
    Alan Schlosser, Legal Director of the ACLU of Northern California, says the
    four men the ACLU is representing weren't aware of the injunction before it
    was served and never had a chance to protest. He is also concerned that
    alleged gang members have no way of knowing whether they're breaking the law by associating with other accused Broderick Boys. "No one even knows who has been served," he explains, "Only the police know."
    The battle against gang injunctions looks bleak. They're now part of the
    urban landscape in Los Angeles, San Diego, and dozens of communities in
    California. L.A. had the first in 1987; now that city alone has 22 of them.
    California's high court _upheld_ ( http://home.comcast.net/~jasonanderson102/acuna.htm)
    the constitutionality of gang injunctions eight years ago, and California
    district attorneys now hold workshops on their implementation. Cheryl Maxson, an associate professor of criminology at UC Irvine who published a recent study on injunctions, says she expects they will continue to spread, despite the fact that they've been shown to be only modestly successful at preventing crime.
    Police Chief Drummond says the tactic has been more than modestly effective
    in West Sacramento. Violent crime, he says, has dropped 26 percent in the
    past five and a half months. To community members worried about civil
    liberties, he points out that only 12 people have actually been arrested for violating the injunction alone. Critics of the injunction say the curfew, like most criminalization of normal human activity, is less about stamping out a specific behavior than about giving police more freedom to interfere where they see fit. When congregating and simply being outside is suddenly illegal, police have the discretion to crack down as they please, and those in violation have reason to avoid attracting attention. At a recent protest rally that Martha Garcia held in Broderick, not a single accused Broderick Boy showed up to protest the injunction. Associating with one another in Broderick, after all, would have been illegal. "We asked them not to come," says Garcia, "The police said if they did, they would be arrested."
    _Kerry Howley_ (mailto:khowley@reason.com) is an assistant editor of
    Reason.
     
  2. Control Group

    Control Group Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    558
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI, Uniform Districts of America
    That's...appalling.

    My jaw has literally dropped, and words are failing me.

    Someday a few centuries from now, people are going to look back at what's going on and marvel that anyone could be so blind as to not see what's coming. Just like looking back at the French Revolution; it's hard to conceive that the King and cronies didn't know what they were bringing on themselves.
     
  3. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2004
    Messages:
    7,377
    Location:
    CA
    Careful, CG. You're getting dangerously close to harmful patriot rhetoric there. :p
     
  4. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    10,756
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    Clearly they are testing this idea on "gang members" because most people don't like gang members and won't complain.

    Eventualy they will declare groups like The Blackwater Rod and Gun Club to be a "gang" ... and they are already expanding the use of the Patriot act to criminals (even though it was only supposed to apply to terrorists).



    Scary times, they is a comin' :uhoh:
     
  5. Azrael256

    Azrael256 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,135
    Location:
    Dallas
    I wonder if they make these people they file injunctions against wear some kind of distinguishing mark. Probably ought to round them up into a confined neighborhood, too.

    Due process anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
     
  6. CentralTexas

    CentralTexas Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,235
    Location:
    Austin Texas
    Hmmmm

    May I point ot yet another story where the ACLU is doing good or would that be risky??? :neener:
    CT
     
  7. Punkermonkey

    Punkermonkey Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    297
    Location:
    IE, CA
    Maybe they should have stars sewn onto their clothing, not allowed them to own property and all move them all to a 'ghetto'. We could issue all of them 'papers' and blue work cards. Then we could hire a new security team, a Super Security team to manage them. We could call them the SS.......

    :confused:
     
  8. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,809
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    I grew up in West Sacramento back in the 50's and 60's. Sure has gone downhill since.
     
  9. Pietro Beretta

    Pietro Beretta Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    618
    Location:
    WA

    Terrorism
    ter·ror·ism
    n.
    The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

    If you envoke terror in others, you are a terrorist. You will be punished to the full extend of the law! :what:

    (Source: Dictionary.com)
     
  10. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Kings believed they ruled by divine right, and were therefore inviolate.

    Heh, heh, heh.
     
  11. 50 Freak

    50 Freak Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    952
    One criteria for determining if one is a gang member is if someone is "Wearing gang colors like red and blue." :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

    Jeez, are they kidding?


    Okay so if your in Sacramento and your wearing Levi's (you know, blue jeans, little red label)....your a gangbanger.

    Lord, I want my tax dollars back. I can't believe they are wasting it with crap like this.
     
  12. Mixlesplick

    Mixlesplick Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Messages:
    203
    Location:
    Michigan
    I think stories like this should start out "As a substitute for real police work, today in..." :rolleyes:
     
  13. MrTuffPaws

    MrTuffPaws Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,511
    Location:
    Az
    Wow, news from home and it sucks. I hope the ACLU swats the Sac police department back to the stone age on this one.
     
  14. fourays2

    fourays2 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2005
    Messages:
    378
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    all the ACLU has to do to get my respect is start supporting 2A. until then :cuss:
     
  15. gm

    gm Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    ohio
    sounds like its becoming more and more like that though,I think the nazis set the standard for this kind of crap along with communist china and their re-education camps. The folks practicing these tactics today have just sunk to yet another all-time low.


    wow..look wrong,be seen with wrong people and youve just been assimulated into gang banger status.judge,jury and sentance without even a trial. Tis scary stuff indeed.
     
  16. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,957
    Location:
    Nevada, escaped from the PDRK via Idaho.
    From the California Penal Code:

    13826.3. (a) An individual shall be subject to gang violence
    prosecution efforts who is under arrest for the commission or the
    attempted commission of any gang-related violent crime where the
    individual is (1) a known member of a gang, and (2) has exhibited a
    prior criminal background.
    (b) For purposes of this chapter, gang-related means that the
    suspect or victim of the crime is a known member of a gang.
    (c) For purposes of this chapter, gang violence prosecution
    includes both criminal prosecutions and proceedings in Juvenile Court
    in which a petition is filed pursuant to Section 602 of the Welfare
    and Institutions Code.
    ******************
    186.22. (a) Any person who actively participates in any criminal
    street gang with knowledge that its members engage in or have engaged
    in a pattern of criminal gang activity, and who willfully promotes,
    furthers, or assists in any felonious criminal conduct by members of
    that gang, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for a
    period not to exceed one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison
    for 16 months, or two or three years.
    (b) (1) Except as provided in paragraphs (4) and (5), any person
    who is convicted of a felony committed for the benefit of, at the
    direction of, or in association with any criminal street gang, with
    the specific intent to promote, further, or assist in any criminal
    conduct by gang members, shall, upon conviction of that felony, in
    addition and consecutive to the punishment prescribed for the felony
    or attempted felony of which he or she has been convicted, be
    punished as follows:
    (A) Except as provided in subparagraphs (B) and (C), the person
    shall be punished by an additional term of two, three, or four years
    at the court's discretion.
    (B) If the felony is a serious felony, as defined in subdivision
    (c) of Section 1192.7, the person shall be punished by an additional
    term of five years.
    (C) If the felony is a violent felony, as defined in subdivision
    (c) of Section 667.5, the person shall be punished by an additional
    term of 10 years.
    (2) If the underlying felony described in paragraph (1) is
    committed on the grounds of, or within 1,000 feet of, a public or
    private elementary, vocational, junior high, or high school, during
    hours in which the facility is open for classes or school-related
    programs or when minors are using the facility that fact shall be a
    circumstance in aggravation of the crime in imposing a term under
    paragraph (1).
    (3) The court shall order the imposition of the middle term of the
    sentence enhancement, unless there are circumstances in aggravation
    or mitigation. The court shall state the reasons for its choice of
    sentencing enhancements on the record at the time of the sentencing.

    (4) Any person who is convicted of a felony enumerated in this
    paragraph committed for the benefit of, at the direction of, or in
    association with any criminal street gang, with the specific intent
    to promote, further, or assist in any criminal conduct by gang
    members, shall, upon conviction of that felony, be sentenced to an
    indeterminate term of life imprisonment with a minimum term of the
    indeterminate sentence calculated as the greater of:
    (A) The term determined by the court pursuant to Section 1170 for
    the underlying conviction, including any enhancement applicable under
    Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 1170) of Title 7 of Part 2, or
    any period prescribed by Section 3046, if the felony is any of the
    offenses enumerated in subparagraphs (B) or (C) of this paragraph.
    (B) Imprisonment in the state prison for 15 years, if the felony
    is a home invasion robbery, in violation of subparagraph (A) of
    paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) of Section 213; carjacking, as
    defined in Section 215; a felony violation of Section 246; or a
    violation of Section 12022.55.
    (C) Imprisonment in the state prison for seven years, if the
    felony is extortion, as defined in Section 519; or threats to victims
    and witnesses, as defined in Section 136.1.
    (5) Except as provided in paragraph (4), any person who violates
    this subdivision in the commission of a felony punishable by
    imprisonment in the state prison for life, shall not be paroled until
    a minimum of 15 calendar years have been served.
    (c) If the court grants probation or suspends the execution of
    sentence imposed upon the defendant for a violation of subdivision
    (a), or in cases involving a true finding of the enhancement
    enumerated in subdivision (b), the court shall require that the
    defendant serve a minimum of 180 days in a county jail as a condition
    thereof.
    (d) Any person who is convicted of a public offense punishable as
    a felony or a misdemeanor, which is committed for the benefit of, at
    the direction of or in association with, any criminal street gang
    with the specific intent to promote, further, or assist in any
    criminal conduct by gang members, shall be punished by imprisonment
    in the county jail not to exceed one year, or by imprisonment in the
    state prison for one, two, or three years, provided that any person
    sentenced to imprisonment in the county jail shall be imprisoned for
    a period not to exceed one year, but not less than 180 days, and
    shall not be eligible for release upon completion of sentence,
    parole, or any other basis, until he or she has served 180 days. If
    the court grants probation or suspends the execution of sentence
    imposed upon the defendant, it shall require as a condition thereof
    that the defendant serve 180 days in a county jail.
    (e) As used in this chapter, "pattern of criminal gang activity"
    means the commission of, attempted commission of, conspiracy to
    commit, or solicitation of, sustained juvenile petition for, or
    conviction of two or more of the following offenses, provided at
    least one of these offenses occurred after the effective date of this
    chapter and the last of those offenses occurred within three years
    after a prior offense, and the offenses were committed on separate
    occasions, or by two or more persons:
    (1) Assault with a deadly weapon or by means of force likely to
    produce great bodily injury, as defined in Section 245.
    (2) Robbery, as defined in Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 211)
    of Title 8 of Part 1.
    (3) Unlawful homicide or manslaughter, as defined in Chapter 1
    (commencing with Section 187) of Title 8 of Part 1.
    (4) The sale, possession for sale, transportation, manufacture,
    offer for sale, or offer to manufacture controlled substances as
    defined in Sections 11054, 11055, 11056, 11057, and 11058 of the
    Health and Safety Code.
    (5) Shooting at an inhabited dwelling or occupied motor vehicle,
    as defined in Section 246.
    (6) Discharging or permitting the discharge of a firearm from a
    motor vehicle, as defined in subdivisions (a) and (b) of Section
    12034.
    (7) Arson, as defined in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 450)
    of Title 13.
    (8) The intimidation of witnesses and victims, as defined in
    Section 136.1.
    (9) Grand theft, as defined in subdivision (a) or (c) of Section
    487.
    (10) Grand theft of any firearm, vehicle, trailer, or vessel.
    (11) Burglary, as defined in Section 459.
    (12) Rape, as defined in Section 261.
    (13) Looting, as defined in Section 463.
    (14) Money laundering, as defined in Section 186.10.
    (15) Kidnapping, as defined in Section 207.
    (16) Mayhem, as defined in Section 203.
    (17) Aggravated mayhem, as defined in Section 205.
    (18) Torture, as defined in Section 206.
    (19) Felony extortion, as defined in Sections 518 and 520.
    (20) Felony vandalism, as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision
    (b) of Section 594.
    (21) Carjacking, as defined in Section 215.
    (22) The sale, delivery, or transfer of a firearm, as defined in
    Section 12072.
    (23) Possession of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of
    being concealed upon the person in violation of paragraph (1) of
    subdivision (a) of Section 12101.
    (24) Threats to commit crimes resulting in death or great bodily
    injury, as defined in Section 422.
    (25) Theft and unlawful taking or driving of a vehicle, as defined
    in Section 10851 of the Vehicle Code.
    (f) As used in this chapter, "criminal street gang" means any
    ongoing organization, association, or group of three or more persons,
    whether formal or informal, having as one of its primary activities
    the commission of one or more of the criminal acts enumerated in
    paragraphs (1) to (25), inclusive, of subdivision (e), having a
    common name or common identifying sign or symbol, and whose members
    individually or collectively engage in or have engaged in a pattern
    of criminal gang activity.
    (g) Notwithstanding any other law, the court may strike the
    additional punishment for the enhancements provided in this section
    or refuse to impose the minimum jail sentence for misdemeanors in an
    unusual case where the interests of justice would best be served, if
    the court specifies on the record and enters into the minutes the
    circumstances indicating that the interests of justice would best be
    served by that disposition.
    (h) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, for each person
    committed to the Youth Authority for a conviction pursuant to
    subdivision (a) or (b) of this section, the offense shall be deemed
    one for which the state shall pay the rate of 100 percent of the per
    capita institutional cost of the Department of Youth Authority,
    pursuant to Section 912.5 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
    (i) In order to secure a conviction, or sustain a juvenile
    petition, pursuant to subdivision (a), it is not necessary for the
    prosecution to prove that the person devotes all, or a substantial
    part of his or her time or efforts to the criminal street gang, nor
    is it necessary to prove that the person is a member of the criminal
    street gang. Active participation in the criminal street gang is all
    that is required.

    *****
    It takes a little bit more than police say-so to make someone a member of a gang.

    Pilgrim
     
  17. alan

    alan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,598
    Location:
    sowest pa.
    Regarding mention of The Patriot Act, which was supposed to be used in TERRORISM CASES ONLY, and note having been made of it having been used in ordinary criminal matters, it was also used in a case of ALLEGED POLITICAL CORRUPTION, which supposedly took place in Nevada, as memory serves..

    Additionally, regarding what I shall refer to as The California Syndrome, California is often held up at THE MODEL WHICH SHOULD BE EMULATED, I never understood why, but that is besides the point. All to often, particularly virulent examples of social policy foolishness, first adopted in California, seems to migrate eastward.

    Re this, I respectfully suggest that you keep your eyes and ears open.
     
  18. O.F.Fascist

    O.F.Fascist Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    262
    Location:
    Corpus Christi, Tx, United States of America
    IMO this kind of crap is rediculous.

    Apparently we have similar stuff in Texas althought I havent heard much about restraining orders and the like.

    It is however an issue in the latest law change that allows us to carry a handgun concealed in our vehicle without a CHL.

    albeit our definition of a criminal street gang is a bit better defined than Californias.

     
  19. thorn726

    thorn726 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,388
    Location:
    berkeley, CA
    ARGH! so stupid.
    go to lvoe this >> being seen in a photograph with another gang member all count.<<<<

    so where does the photo have to come from ? i am at a bus stop and a gang member gets off the bus and a cop takes a picture, and i am now a gang member?

    once someone is actually convicted of a bunch of gang stuff, ok , i could see some restrictions in their parole or whatever, but to arbitrarily decide who is a gang member? ARGh! this poor guy getting run in like that is horrible.
     
  20. RevDisk

    RevDisk Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    1,737
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Coming? I think they're already here. People are just starting to notice more.
     
  21. grimjaw

    grimjaw Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,358
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Wait a minute.

    US threatens military action against Iraq for failing to allow UN inspectors to search for WMD's.

    Threatened force by group against people with intention of coercing government, for political reasons.

    jmm
     
  22. jnojr

    jnojr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,095
    Location:
    Reston, VA
    My immediate take after reading the first few sentences... first, police departments don't randomly pick people, call them "gang members" and spend time, effort, and money on getting injunctions against them. Second, every criminal plays the "Who, me? I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm a good kid! Wasn't me!" card.
     
  23. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,809
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    And guess what? Some are actually telling the truth. Imagine that!
     
  24. dpesec

    dpesec Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Messages:
    565
    50 Freak

    How about this one.
    USAF dress BLUES :what:
     
  25. DigitalWarrior

    DigitalWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2003
    Messages:
    867
    Location:
    Nashua NH
    OMG, I am a gang member!!!

    I used to wear blue slacks with a fat old red stripe down the side. I regularly go to the bad parts of San Diego, for charitable work. I am pretty sure that we have publicity photos of me with gang members from the past present and future.

    Oh good, I just realized I can't be a gang-member. I am white. :barf:

    The right of the people to peaceably assemble shall not be infringed (unless it seems like a good idea).
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page