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Thoughts on CZ Shotguns?

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by SeanMTX, Jul 7, 2008.

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  1. SeanMTX

    SeanMTX Member

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    I've recently started getting into sporting clays and 5 stand shooting with a friend of mine who's rather experienced. I have a Benelli Super Nova as my bird gun (functional and can be tossed in the back of a truck without feeling bad about a scratch).

    This bird gun works ok as a clay shooter, but isn't ideal by any stretch. I figger if I'm going to get more involved, I'm gonna need a better lead launcher.

    I'm pretty much settled on a O/U style, as I can have 2 different chokes for different shots. I'm not in the position to spend Sig Aurora kind of money on my first sporting shotgun, but want something that I can use, grow into a bit, and keep for a long time.

    As I was looking at Bud's Gun Shop's gun porn the other day, I came across a CZ Woodcock 103FE Deluxe for under $1000. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_588/products_id/17984


    Anyone have any experience/thoughts on these guns? I'm looking at 12ga, 28-3-" barrel, and O/U....max price is $1000.


    If you've seen or used something you think is better, please feel free to sound off.

    Thanks.
     
  2. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    Well, I know nothing about O/U shotguns or shotguns in general, but I do love CZ firearms. The PCR, 97B, and 452 I have are all excellent guns, and I can't imagine they would just let themselves go with their shotguns.
     
  3. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    For your budget, I also wouldn't rule out a nicely used, but not abused Browning or Beretta. Go to a club and try different guns, see which one feels and fits YOU the best. If it turns out to be something a little more than your current budget, then IMO, I would postpone and get it when I could, otherwise you'll be kicking yourself for not doing it then and you'll buy it later...(know this from too many personal instances! :D)
     
  4. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    CZ shotguns are not made by CZ. They're re-badged Huglu guns from Turkey.

    A used SKB, Browning or Beretta can be had for under $1000 -- a basic new SKB can sometimes be found for that -- and they're superior firearms.
     
  5. SeanMTX

    SeanMTX Member

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    Interesting.

    I really like CZ pistols, and I'm a bit surprised to hear this.

    With Dan Wesson and the shotguns...what exactly DOES CZ make anymore?


    I'm not familiar with SKB...what's the story on those?
     
  6. RNB65

    RNB65 Member

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    Yes, don't buy one for clay shooting. They're fine for occasional bird hunting but they're not durable enough for the heavy use of clay shooting. Look for a used Browning instead.
     
  7. RNB65

    RNB65 Member

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    CZ makes rifles and semi-automatic handguns at their Czech facility.

    Revolvers are made by Dan Wesson in the U.S.

    Shotguns are made by Huglu in Turkey and rebranded with the CZ name.
     
  8. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    Money.
     
  9. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    SKB until recently made Weatherby's shotgun line. They used to be imported by Ithaca, years back (I have an Ithaca SKB O/U that's still going strong).

    They've been sold under their own name for a good while now, also.

    They're low-profile, great pointers. My 20 feels a lot like a SxS. Top-quality, durable guns, too. They use Greener lockups -- long-lasting without the obesity of a Citori.

    http://www.skbshotguns.com

    Also, check CDNN for some deals on Belgian Winchesters, also under $1000. They change their external style a bit, and clear out the old ones through CDNN, it seems.
     
  10. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    Me too.
     
  11. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Why are people surprised to hear this?

    From the website sidebar in the shotgun section:

    http://www.czusa.com/products_shotguns.php
     
  12. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    Because I haven't looked through CZ's website in some time, and I don't think I've ever read up on their shotguns.
     
  13. Wakal

    Wakal Member

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    When the TL rate was MUCH better, Huglu shotguns were well worth the money. Now they are just a pretty good buy ;)

    Don't believe the "not durable enough" stories...there are a bunch of Turkish shotgun manufacturers, and Huglu is right up at the top of the heap. Their competition teams shoot as much as any other serious shotgun shooters, and the guns run just fine.

    Their factory is worth the visit, too.

    http://www.dreadnaught-industries.com/Huglu_tour.htm






    Alex
     
  14. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    See two posters here whose CZ shotguns did not hold up, in this recent thread:

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=340893

    And Dale Earnhardt Jr. races a Chevy Impala. It runs great, in case you're looking to buy a new car...

    Don't get me wrong, I doubt that Tom Knapp's Benellis are bone-stock, either.
     
  15. atblis

    atblis Member

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    The triggers never hold up in the cheap O/U shotguns, or else they are inordinately heavy/crappy. Don't give me this crap about them holding up fine. People buy them and shoot a few hundred/thousand rounds and then proclaim that they're as good as the old standbys. Shoot 10ks/100ks of rounds and then come back and we'll talk.

    Affordable shotguns worth having either new or used in no particular order.
    Beretta
    Browning
    SKB/Weatherby (You can probably do one of these of under $1k)
    There are some other Italian shotguns that are decent as well.

    All of the Turkish shotguns I've shot and friends had did not compare. Some crapped the bed straight out of the box, some it took a few thousand rounds.

    EDIT: As mentioned above you can find some killer deals on shotguns in CDNN. The Winchesters are worth considering. Personally, I'd consider the two Weatherby's on the bottom of page 39 in the CDNN catalog. A full on target gun NIB for $1399 is a very good deal IMO. You also get a few extra tubes than normal with that gun.
    http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/cdnn/CDNN2008-3.pdf
    The one thing to watch out for is often CDNN will have some really nice shotguns for cheap because the importer has dropped them/gone out of business. That might very well mean no parts. If you shoot enough, you'll eventually need something. This shouldn't be a problem with the Weatherbys.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2008
  16. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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  17. Wakal

    Wakal Member

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    Don't get me wrong, I'm not a CZ (or Huglu) dealer...but folks doing the "pile on" due to internet experiences amuse me. Oh, no, two guys had problems...CZ imported what, 30,000 shotguns last year? What is SKB's failure rate? Remington? Don't let one experience by "some guy" (expecially me :) ) write off a whole line of guns.

    I've only got 10k through one of my own Huglu in the last year, but it seems to be holding up just fine. It is a side by side, though, not a over/under (yes, I am a recovering SASS shooter, among my other faults, and that one (of four) is both my favorite "slow poke old time relaxing competition shooting" gun as well as my shop demonstration gun for that type of action).

    Poke around on this forum; there is a thread or two with some weird folks doing torture and endurance tests on their Huglus with very good results. Stuff in the 100k range, if memory serves.

    Not all under $5k is doom and gloom, although the expensive guns are very nice.




    Alex
     
  18. atblis

    atblis Member

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    EDIT: Misread that link. Oops.
     
  19. SDDL-UP

    SDDL-UP Member

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    I have complete confidence in my CZ produced handguns and rifles, but I'm not sure the Huglu shotguns are up to real CZ standards.

    A big qualifier here - I'm not really a shotgun guy anyway and my opinion is just based on visual inspections of some of these shotguns.

    I think you'd be better off checking into a dedicated shotgun site and see what the experts have to say.
     
  20. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    That's true.

    Beretta, SKB, Browning and others make great guns for under 2 grand, sometimes close to 1.

    5 grand? That's a straw man.

    The point is this: Huglus are not cheap enough to be worth it, given their long-standing reputation. Are some of them okay? Sure. Might the new ones be better? Sure. But do I think anyone should pay good money to find out? No way.

    I have no idea. Never heard of one with any problems, and I know a good number of people who have them -- some have a bunch of them. Mine is over 30 years old. The president of the local NAVHDA chapter has one that's seen abuse I truly can't believe -- it gets tossed in the back of a pickup on dirt roads routinely, and the rib is all rippled from being bounced around. It still works perfectly.

    Good reputations like SKB's, Browning's, Beretta's are made over decades and hundreds of thousands of rounds. Considering that, they're downright cheap for a price between $1000 and $2000, compared to a gun with a longstanding poor reputation, also earned over decades, for close to $1000.

    I'll believe they'll last long enough to be worth it when they've proven themselves to be better than they used to be. They're also pretty damn rough for a gun over $500.

    It's not just about the money, either. Stoeger O/U's have proven to be reliable guns, if not the most refined in the world.

    Do what you want. The guy asked for "thoughts", and them's them.:)
     
  21. atblis

    atblis Member

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    SKBs

    A clay target shooter will often shoot multiple hundreds of thousands of rounds over a period of decades through the same gun. A gun that can take that kind of beating with minimal problems is what defines a target shotgun to me. Minimal problems means springs every so often and maybe firing pins (not every 5k rounds like Huglus).

    None of the Turkish guns meet my definition.
    SKB is the most affordable shotgun I can think of that I would consider a true target shotgun.

    There have been many "cheap" O/U over the decades, many people have made the same arguments regarding what are you actually paying for. I don't feel like dinking around with non functioning triggers in a bargain O/U that chances are I can't get parts for because the importer went belly up ten years ago. That's what I paid for.

    Look around for a used target shotgun. You can get some killer deals if you're patient.
     
  22. TxState101

    TxState101 Member

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    I bought a Weatherby Orion Uplander for $999.99 at Academy about a month back. Since I work there, the discount made it a hell of a lot more appealing, knocking it down to $915 after taxes. It's light enough to carry in the field, hasn't seen any dove hunts yet, but sturdy enough to shoot clays all day and not beat your shoulder to death.

    The main thing that I started to appreciate after I bought it was the barrel selection, and the manual safety. Fits right for me, weighs a little under 7 pounds.

    If you have the chance, try one out and see how it feels, I'd recommend it to anybody willing to drop that kind of cash on a shotgun.

    But if it's your first O/U, I wouldn't see anything wrong with a Yildiz that'd run you a little over $400 and you can beat to hell in the field or shooting clays and not feel too terrible. That's just if you have an Academy near you, I suppose. Even a CZ USA has the right price for a 12 gauge that would be a good starter.

    Good luck, don't let anybody give you any flak for dropping some cash on a damn nice shotgun. If it fits right and feels good and shoots the way it's supposed to and you do your part, you won't regret it.
     
  23. sernv99

    sernv99 Member

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    I'm in the same boat as the OP. I was going to use my Browning Citori, 12 guage 28" barrel O/U but the thing is too beefy and weights like a pig to use all day on the range.

    I was posting on a couple other forums and asking about barrel length, the trend with barrel length for O/U has been at least 30/32" for sporting clays/skeet and 34" for trap. But others have said 28" is fine, you can run with the big dogs if need be.

    What are some opinions here? I am debating between a Beretta 391 Sporting with 30" barrel (which is very light) or a sporting Sig/Aurora TT25 in like new condition with 28" barrels. I'll probably engage in all three sports, with sporting clays being the primary game.
     
  24. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    I agree. The one thing good thing about a Citori is that you can sell it, which is what I'd do. With a few exceptions, I hate the things, but they sure are durable and retain their value, since some people do like them.

    WRT barrel length, OAL matters a lot more. There's nothing magical about a 30" barrel, especially on a semiauto that's extra-long anyway. Those numbers are for break-action guns, generally, and a specialized trap gun is a whole separate ballgame.

    Shoot what you like, i.e. what feels good to you. There's also nothing magical about a "sporting" model. Usually it's got fancier wood and some engraving or something, for a higher price.
     
  25. sernv99

    sernv99 Member

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    so for semi-autos, 28" would be ideal?
     
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