Thoughts on joining the Marines...

[Manedwolf]

Remember, Military recruiters are worse than used car salemen.

If it is not in your contract when you sign, you will not get it! Period! Does not matter what the recruiter promised. I knew many in the Army who signed up infantry on their contract. They said they wanted to go Airborne or Ranger and the recruiter told them that they would be able to volunteer for it in basic. No big deal. Well, they got screwed, they had to wait until the end of their enlistment (3-4 years) to re-enlist with a airborne or ranger option. Recruiters are really pressed now to meet quotas and they will do anything and tell lies to get you to join.

The recruiters also know that SOMEBODY has to drive the supply trucks, do the paperwork, clean the mess hall, polish the brass, help the cook, sort the equipment, get mud out of tank treads, weld things, clean the latrine, paint the boat, etc, etc...So yeah, make sure you know what's in your contract!

I'm always reminded of stories of when the Navy put lots of recruiting stations in movie theater lobbies way back when Top Gun came out, letting people think they'd instantly get to fly fighters just like that. I have to wonder just how many ended up cleaning decks and painting and polishing everything that didn't move for their entire tour.

 

[Old Dog]

Am I missing something here, or does it seem that the most negative comments to this young man are coming from people who have NO military experience of their own?

it is self-evident that I was not born for such a life of indentured servitude.

Those who've not served, cannot begin to fathom the experience by merely reading about it ... "indentured servitude" ... sigh.

I have many relatives and a few friends that have been in the marines. Some were lifers, some not. All of them came out screwed up mentally in some way or another, and should be (and usually are) on anti-depressants, and nerve medication.

Do they consider themselves "screwed up" mentally? Would these people be actual combat veterans? Are you in fact qualified to judge that your "relatives and friends" are screwed up mentally? That's one helluva broad negative judgement there, buddy, but, giving you the benefit of the doubt, it's probably an indication that these folks may have been predisposed to depression or anxiety -- Marines (that's a capital "M" to you, partner) tend to be pretty emotionally stable folk as a rule.

Don't believe the recruiters. They are salesmen, period.

Um, having worked in recruiting (as a non-vol, of course), I can tell you that the recruiters -- for any branch -- who lie, do not last long. I won't say it doesn't happen, but it's far less frequent than one would imagine. Any dishonesty in recruiting is normally internal, recruiters, classifiers and processing staff "tweaking" the system -- almost always to the benefit of the applicant. Applicants for the armed forces these days are much more savvy and there is much more competition for schools and training. The repercussions for dishonest recruiters are heavy -- normally career-killing and permanent.

I'm always reminded of stories of when the Navy put lots of recruiting stations in movie theater lobbies way back when Top Gun came out, letting people think they'd instantly get to fly fighters just like that. I have to wonder just how many ended up cleaning decks and painting and polishing everything that didn't move for their entire tour.

We never put recruiting stations in the movie theaters, but I'm sure there were a few savvy recruiters who may have arranged to be around the theaters in their service dress blues when Top Gun was playing (same for Hunt for Red October) ... Ah, if I had a buck for every applicant who told me, "I wanna do what Goose did" or "I wanna be a sonar dude like Jonesy" ...

 

[telomerase]

I had a friend who was told he would be a navigator for the Navy. After he signed, they tested him for color-blindness, and he spent his whole enlistment as a cook.

There's also the question of whether you're willing to go kill people you don't know over WMDs that never existed, but I guess you got past that. Best of luck to you, whatever you decide.

 

[medmo]

Sounds like your buddy had a guaranteed contract. Well, nothing is guaranteed. If you somehow fail to meet the requirements to successfully function in the "guaranteed" MOS then your job will be changed. You will be reassigned to a job (MOS) that meets your physical and mental qualifications. Are you suggesting that the USN should have allowed your buddy to become a naval aviator even though he had sight limitations and did not meet the qualifications? Your buddy knew going in that if for some reason he washed out of that MOS then he would be reassigned.

"There's also the question of whether you're willing to go kill people you don't know over WMDs that never existed, but I guess you got past that. Best of luck to you, whatever you decide."

WMD's that never existed? I guess it was a faked media stunt when the world saw the images of countless dead Iranians and Iraqi citizens who died of nerve agent poisoning.

We are currently killing people who have one goal which is to kill Americans and others from Western society. There minds have been completely polluted by self serving leaders who have brain washed these guys with perverted religion. They would love to do nothing more than come to the U.S. and kill as many Americans there as possible. You don't get to decide if you are "at war" all of the time. These people are "at war" with you and your country. These people are engaged completely in efforts to kill Americans, destroy this country and it's vital interests. There is no possibility of negotiating or reasoning with these people. Killing or capturing them is the only solution that seems to work. Where would you like us to do this? Where they breed or in your back yard?

 

[WillBrayJr]

While I do support our Troops, I just don't think being in the Military is the right job for me. So I would have to pass on that.

 

[telomerase]

WMD's that never existed? I guess it was a faked media stunt when the world saw the images of countless dead Iranians and Iraqi citizens who died of nerve agent poisoning.

That was in the 1980s, when the US was supplying Saddam with the VX precursors. The alleged nuclear and gas threats to the US in the 2000s never existed, and no one ever thought they did.

The Iraqis weren't interested in killing Americans before the US invaded. Al-Quaeda certainly was, and the invasion has really helped them spread fanatic Islam.

I'm sure you and I share the same goals; we both want to see freedom spread around the world. I just don't think that the US Aid To Dependent Dictators programs are doing that. Happy New Year, and death to all dictators... including those our taxes paid for.

 

[Wllm. Legrand]

"

Interesting comments..... You stated "That's a fact, Jack." but either you do or don't know that there are more facts out there that are not in your post. There is definitely more going on here then is being represented. The Corps does everthing possible to assist it's wounded warriors ..... C'mon post all of it if you know it.

Since my son is posted here near my city, I've heard it all..through both surgeries, therapy, etc.etc, etc. Tell it all? Why? You can accept it or not, I don't give a damn. "..does everything possible.." is a platitude. Maybe my son's runaround is not typical. I met with the surgeon at the Air Force Academy in the Springs (first surgery). It's been four years now..he's in for five, but we'll se if these new changes that I've been told about (for a couple of months now)regarding medical review board changes and the such will finally let him go.

" The USMC is not made up of academic rejects and mouth breathers. I knew a few Marines that did very well in Calculus and just for the record if you aren't a "field marine" then you are not a US Marine.

Two errors here. I never claimed that it was made of academic rejects. That's your implication, not mine. I simply stated that they do not get many h.s. kids that have been through calculus. That's a friggin' fact. What's your problem?

Second error is regarding "field marine"....I know you'd like to think otherwise (the grand tradition of the Corps and all that), but call a spade a spade. I've had numerous conversations with ret. Mstr. Sgt. and another discharged Marine (all of us party to the same conversations) and the term is used. Maybe those old-time vet and the younger one are just full of it.

I'll have to speak with them about their use of proper nomenclature. On your authority, of course.

I stand my description of the list as factual, according to experience. The "tint" my be subjective, but then this opinion is not made of whole cloth, as you may believe, but rather from being close to the situation.

Never do I run into more hard-nosed intransigents who are closed-minded on any subject to which they have already made up their mind as former or active military and cops. You sound like one or the other.

Usually it's just a matter of time before they dredge out the ol' "Well, you don't know shiiite because you were never in!", usually given with some self-righteous smirk in their voice. Give it a rest, old dog.

You may as well talk to the wall as have a genuine discussion that has any degree of disagreement. As long as everyone is in agreement, conversation is great...disagree, watch out!

That's subjective, too.

And don't start this "hates the military" crap. I'm proud of what he's done. He's a tough kid. I'm just calling the facts as they are, free of false ideology or phony platitudes.

 

[Old Dog]

Well, Wllm. LeGrande, it's understandable that you have strong feelings about your son's treatment through military treatment facilities. I'm a little unclear as to exactly where you feel the Marine Corps (and the Navy Medical Corps) did him wrong -- he was injured, received treatment, had surgery, went through therapy, but is still suffering pain and physical problems yet the Marines will not give him a physical disability separation or disability retirement? And he's already appealed his case to the Central Physical Evaluation Board? Having been through the medical board procedures myself , I know quite well how frustrating the medical bureaucracy can be, and I'd agree that the physicians can and do make mistakes ... but with persistence, the system can be successfully fought (hopefully without Congressional intervention).

You also noted that

Usually it's just a matter of time before they dredge out the ol' "Well, you don't know shiiite because you were never in!", usually given with some self-righteous smirk in their voice. Give it a rest, old dog.

To which I must respond that I was addressing the two gentlemen with no military experience of their own who presumed to give advice to the young man who is already on his way to boot camp ... I will stand by my comments, for one who has not served has no right to term military service as "indentured servitude" nor claim that everyone who goes into the service ends up "mentally screwed up." If you consider this self-righteous, so be it. And, frankly, if you've not served, as I stated, you really cannot begin to fathom the experience ... I'm a pretty hard-nosed intransigent about that, you're correct on that score.

 

[happyhooligan]

Though it may pain you, try and finish up with your schooling. You're two semesters short. The Marines may have a student loan repayment bonus like the other branches. If you really want to join now, see if you could do a split-option where you would attend bootcamp this summer, and your MOS school next summer. You may be able to transfer to active duty right away after you graduate.

 

[Wllm. Legrand]

Well, Wllm. LeGrande, it's understandable that you have strong feelings about your son's treatment through military treatment facilities. I'm a little unclear as to exactly where you feel the Marine Corps (and the Navy Medical Corps) did him wrong -- he was injured, received treatment, had surgery, went through therapy, but is still suffering pain and physical problems yet the Marines will not give him a physical disability separation or disability retirement? And he's already appealed his case to the Central Physical Evaluation Board? Having been through the medical board procedures myself , I know quite well how frustrating the medical bureaucracy can be, and I'd agree that the physicians can and do make mistakes ... but with persistence, the system can be successfully fought (hopefully without Congressional intervention).

You also noted that
To which I must respond that I was addressing the two gentlemen with no military experience of their own who presumed to give advice to the young man who is already on his way to boot camp ... I will stand by my comments, for one who has not served has no right to term military service as "indentured servitude" nor claim that everyone who goes into the service ends up "mentally screwed up." If you consider this self-righteous, so be it. And, frankly, if you've not served, as I stated, you really cannot begin to fathom the experience ... I'm a pretty hard-nosed intransigent about that, you're correct on that score.

Okay, I was a little harsh on that "self-righteous" comment. Jumped the gun. Sorry about that. I just have heard it so much. As I've said, I've never been shot, either, but I bet it would hurt. I bet you are an intransigent old @)#($*)@.

As for your first paragraph, your understanding of it is correct. Back and forth, file this, Sorry, misdiagnosis on first surgery. go back east to meet with some board, sorry that's been put off, go back to see if third surgery can be done, no wait, change in rules you may be able to get another kind of board to review, etc., etc.
Like I said: BUREAUCRACY! Such B.S. Fix the problem, no matter what. If he hurts so much now (has to take pain pills to get through the "motions" of a PT session (only partial as he can't even run--which he does anyway--without pain in the shoulder). Just use some of the GD money used to "create democracy" in some S**T-hole of a country we shouldn't even be in to take care of one of those who trusted the FedGOD to do what it said it would do.

That's all I ask. Really DO do all they can.

 

[Old Dog]

Fair enough, W.L. ... Regrettably, the Navy's medical establishment (and I'm sure the Army's and Air Force's as well) right now is really suffering -- another victim of the "cost of war." Most of the medical personnel, physicians, P.A.s, nurses, corpsmen, are all being deployed -- even those who are assigned shore duty. What's left stateside are reservists and contract staff filling the billets. This compounds the fact that the Navy's (and Marine Corps) medical board and limited duty systems were screwed up to begin with. Sorry for your son's problems, and here's hoping that he quickly finds people involved in his case who care.

 

[ghost squire]

Bottom line: no degree + enlisted experience = back to school after you get out. BS or BA degree + officer experience = Fortune 500 entry level management position.


This is sound advice. You're so close - finish up and go in as an officer. As lousy as a lot of officers were in the Navy, almost ALL were still leagues better than most civillian managers, most of whom just plain suck.

What if one were get a 2 year degree before going in as an enlisted man, then get some experience before becoming an officer later on?

For example if you wanted to be a SEAL you wouldn't go in wanting to become an officer, you'd go in as an enlisted man and would it be possible in the Marines at least to become an officer later?

 

[medmo]

"The Iraqis weren't interested in killing Americans before the US invaded."

Tell that to the air crews and aviators who dodged SAM's and other ground fire while patrolling the "no fly zone" when fulfilling the mutually agreed upon cease fire. The same guy calling the shots in Iraq when the Iraqi citizens and Iranians were gassed to death was the same guy in charge when our units rolled North from Kuwait in 2003. Regardless of where you think he aqcuired those weapons he used them and the world thought he would use them again. The world also was convinced that he possessed WMD's and was developing more. Mass graves don't lie. The US is a much safer country and so is the world without Hussein.

I think your argument that having forces locate and destroy terrorists off shore is self defeating to our cause in the war on terror is non-reality based thinking. Were there troops actively engaging an enemy in the Mid East when the Twin Towers 1st bombing occurred? When the barracks in Saudi Arabia were destroyed by suicide bombers? How about the suicide attack on the USS Cole? The "Oh, man let's not piss them off anymore" theory just doesn't hold water. These twisted perverted animals showed up "pissed off" and desire nothing more in life then martyrdom by killing us. The "maybe we can ignore it and it will go away" ideaology has proven a failure. The US is capable of disrupting, detaining and destroying these terrorists. The fact that every day we wake up without news of death and destruction within our borders is proof. If these people were capable you would wake up to much different news daily.

I'm sure that we both agree on how we want to see this situation resolved. I don't think we "understand" the situation the same way.

Wllm. LeGrande - Apologies if you felt like I stomped on your toes. Yes, I understand there is a bureaucracy to deal with and it might take longer then you feel is acceptable for the situation to be resolved. I think your old time vet and younger vet might be full of themselves. I was a "field Marine" not one of those other types. Brother, I'm telling you every swinging member in the USMC is a field Marine. Do some spend more time in the field then others when training? Yup When your MEU is in a theatre of operation then every one is a field Marine.

 

[Manedwolf]

The same guy calling the shots in Iraq when the Iraqi citizens and Iranians were gassed to death was the same guy in charge when our units rolled North from Kuwait in 2003. Regardless of where you think he aqcuired those weapons he used them and the world thought he would use them again.

Here's where he obtained them. Yes, that's Rumsfeld on the left, there, and the chemical precursors all came from places like Dow and DuPont. The story is a lot more complex than comic-book black and white. The US literally MADE Sadaam to keep the Iranian ayatollahs busy, supplying him with everything he needed. Then, like every time we try to play with puppet leaders, they turn bitey and turn on us. Just like bin Laden was once part of the US-supplied Mujahadeen resistance against Soviets in Afghanistan.

This whole mess is a result of 30 or more years of bad policy, not just "good guys and bad guys". That's not how the real world works. WE are the ones who knowingly empowered monsters and enabled them to exercise their evil ideas. The world is full of tinpot dictators with similar aspirations, but the ones we tried to make pets of took the training and the guns and weapons and, as they always do, turned around and bit us in the behind. Now we're paying the price.

BTW, some of the most noted and respected military historians, the ones who are required reading for officer school, have called Iraq things like "the worst tactical blunder of the past 2000 years". I'm just sorry to see good men and women losing their lives in the quagmire, while the CIVILIAN military leaders enjoy VIP cushy, safe lives at home.

 

[medmo]

DUH

I didn't just show up uneducated, inexperienced and late to your Modern American History Class. No kidding, the US Govmn't did all of that? Excuse me and let me wipe the slobber off my shirt collar.

There were many things that were done against the "Evil Empire" and the "Islamic Revolution" that encompassed the theory "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Do you remember 9/11 and the wake up call? I'm guessing not. It changed the way we do business and respond to threats and even potential threats to the US and it's citizens. That was a transition point but apparently you never shifted gears.

"Now we're paying the price."

Nope, all we had to do is be ourselves to pay the price. If you don't practice the same type of perverted religion than they do you will "pay the price". That is nothing more than we had to do bring the condemnation and "jihad" to be called against us.



"BTW, some of the most noted and respected military historians, the ones who are required reading for officer school, have called Iraq things like "the worst tactical blunder of the past 2000 years". I'm just sorry to see good men and women losing their lives in the quagmire, while the CIVILIAN military leaders enjoy VIP cushy, safe lives at home."

Tactical blunder? What officer school requires "reading" that questions the most current and highest priority of the US Military? No where that I know of..... Name them if you happen have the list handy. You are sorry for who? Honorable and brave people that don't want your pathetic pity. They want your support to help them fight each and every crucial battle in this war. The CIVILIAN military leaders and YOU enjoyed a nice cushy, safe sleep at home last night in your own beds due to their devotion and dedication. Their blood, sweat and tears are keeping YOU and your CIVILIAN military leaders safe from urban dirty bomb detonations to individual terrorists dumping AK mags in our elementary school rooms.