Thoughts on the .30 Super Carry

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Zerodefect said:
The whole purpose of the round is to be cheaper and easier to produce, with 9mm performance.

Make it cheaper than 9mm, and it'll sell.

That's why the 9mm fans are so threatened by it. It illustrates the real reason 9mm is the most popular, not the reason they've been trying to believe for decades.

If 30sc has low recoil and more capacity, that's nice to.
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The purpose of this round is not to be cheaper or easier to produce than the 9x19. I predict if anything it will be more expensive; it could be the same price, more likely to be more expensive since it is not a round that is internationally produced by nearly every ammo maker in the world. It is intended to deliver near 9x19 performance in a smaller package.
 
barnetmill said:
The purpose of this round is not to be cheaper or easier to produce than the 9x19. I predict if anything it will be more expensive; it could be the same price, more likely to be more expensive since it is not a round that is internationally produced by nearly every ammo maker in the world. It is intended to deliver near 9x19 and performance in a smaller package.
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Problem is, it isn’t in a smaller package.

I’ve got one as of day before yesterday! It’s a Sheild EZ .30SC. ITS IDENTICAL to the 9mm EZ, and 1+” longer than my 9mm Sheild 1.0.
And, it’s the same size as a Sheild EZ .380.

Why purchase? Fair question!
1. I have a fetish for .32 cal handguns. I have 2 S&W hand ejectors, a Taurus M76 .32H&RMag (most accurate revolver I own!), a Ruger Single-7 5.5” .327mag, a Keltec P32, a Betetta M81 .32 acp, and now a .30 SC.
2. In 2000, I bought a Ruger Security 6 off a table from a Police Supply vendor at the NRA NPSC, for $125.00 Including shipping! Dealer in my state transferred it for free. I recently sold it for $600.00 Seems now they are no longer “trash”, but highly regarded “Unobtainium”. They are good revolvers! But not a S&W Mod-19. Ford P/U vs Dodge Charger Hemi. I bought a distressed M19-2 NKL for $300 in 2019. I replaced the missing rear sight and chewed up rubber grips with a vintage set of original Magns’s. Pulled the label off an old box from the one I carried in 1980 that got sold to finance another aquisition and spent several sessions polishing it with Flitz. I recently turned down $1200 for it. It’s has a target hammer and trigger. Mine circa 1980 didn’t... I always wanted them... nostalgia, I guess.
3. In 2002 I acquired a S&W 5906 “Super-9”. It isn’t anything special except it’s a single action with an adjustable trigger and LPA rear sight. AND, it has 3 barrels; 9x19, .9x21, and .356TSW! Ever heard of a .356TSW? Probably not.
Last Super 9 I saw sold on GunBroker went for 4$$$.00+.

4. I had 3 $50 gift cards and a $15 off coupon, plus 5% off remaining balance on my Academy CC. I GOT $185. Off the sticker price $499, before sales tax. Register clerk also took off $15 on the separate ammo purchase.

Maybe same will happen to the .30SC.

BUT not likely if the others are like Mine!
My perception is:
Recoil LESS than 9x19 (Sheild Compact 9 with +P 124gr HST, or 127gr Winchester SXT +P+. (Sorry, that’s just what I carry in it!).
It ain’t no louder that the hot 9’s... again, my perception...
Accuracy is: is phenomenal with Federal 100gr HST. EXCEEDS MY TWO Custom 1911 target guns at 25yds. Only exceeded by the 3 5906 PPC -9’s I own.

Another thread coming on the first range session and “pichur’s!!!. Also, chronography of my first reload work ups.
Hint! It AINT A TiteGroup, BullsEye, HP38, N310 kind of cartridge. Think HS7, ACC#7, AAC#9, PowerPistol, LONGSHOT, BLUE Dot kind of cartridge....

Want a 9, .40, .45? Get one and don’t look back! I got Those too! Love em.
But I’m old, feeble, fat, deaf, and Arthritic. I’ve found me a new “squeeze”!
Don’t talk trash about my new Gremlin, and I won’t talk trash about your Pinto, or that rusty Vega behind your Mobil home! (Local joke...). GG...
 
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barnetmill said:
The purpose of this round is not to be cheaper or easier to produce than the 9x19. I predict if anything it will be more expensive; it could be the same price, more likely to be more expensive since it is not a round that is internationally produced by nearly every ammo maker in the world. It is intended to deliver near 9x19 performance in a smaller package.
Click to expand...

"Less materials to produce.'' Right from the manufacturers mouth. That's all it offers.
 
Zerodefect said:
"Less materials to produce.'' Right from the manufacturers mouth. That's all it offers.
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And you believe that!
here are the 380, 30SC, and 9x19.
upload_2022-4-21_7-10-2.png
SGA price
mag tech 9x19 is $0.40/round
PMC 380ACP per round $0.50

on Ammoseek
30SC the cheapest was $1.20 per round from AmmoFast
 
Let me ask a stupid question and you fellas tell me why I’m wrong.

If the designers wanted something unique why not make it a true .30 caliber / .308 instead of a .32 caliber / .3125?

You could load it with 110-125gn varmint bullets and really have something cool and different (to me anyway)

I’m guessing the pistol would have to be bigger with a longer barrel to stabilize the bullet? Wouldn’t be a “Super Carry” anymore but that just seems like marketing hype anyway.

Maybe the longer bearing surface would push the pressure too high?

Anyway, I’m just thinking out loud here.
 
barnetmill said:
And you believe that!
here are the 380, 30SC, and 9x19.
View attachment 1073853
SGA price
mag tech 9x19 is $0.40/round
PMC 380ACP per round $0.50

on Ammoseek
30SC the cheapest was $1.20 per round from AmmoFast
Click to expand...

[Yeah, cause 380 is made and sold in the same quantities as 9mm.] You minus well have combined the cost difference of .223 and .300 win magnum. Low volume rounds cost more. Nothing new there.

If they scale up production of 30SC to 9mm levels, it'll be cheaper. And if it's cheaper, it'll catch on. And every fan, will make every single darn excuse under the sun why they switched to it, except for the actual one. It's cheaper.
 
Zerodefect said:
[Yeah, cause 380 is made and sold in the same quantities as 9mm.] You minus well have combined the cost difference of .223 and .300 win magnum. Low volume rounds cost more. Nothing new there.

If they scale up production of 30SC to 9mm levels, it'll be cheaper. And if it's cheaper, it'll catch on. And every fan, will make every single darn excuse under the sun why they switched to it, except for the actual one. It's cheaper.
Click to expand...
On a slightly earlier post I said:
The purpose of this round is not to be cheaper or easier to produce than the 9x19. I predict if anything it will be more expensive; it could be the same price, more likely to be more expensive since it is not a round that is internationally produced by nearly every ammo maker in the world. It is intended to deliver near 9x19 performance in a smaller package.
Click to expand...
 
I got to shoot a Shield Plus in 30 Super yesterday at an event and came away with a few impressions. First, I like the Plus as it fits my palm well, and of the small 9s it is pretty easy for me to manage recoil with it. The Super was very easy to control, little less muzzle flip than the 9 and my little group was pretty good. One thing to note is the noise, it's definitely on the loud side. I think in a different package I'd consider it, especially once reloading equipment catches up. I can see their intent with it, it makes some sense, but until there are more offerings..I'm not sold yet.
 
Warning, this post contains reloading data not tested or confirmed by independent laboratory tests. Use at your own risk...

NB,
With a .313” grooves and .303” bore, technically it’s not a .32 but actually a .303 using the European method of calibration. SAAMI accepted it as a .30”, so there’s that.

If you desire or must, a .308” bullet will work. I had a few .308” cast bullets I cobbled up to try in my .30Carbines looking for best accuracy. They work “ok” but don’t yield great accuracy. 4.5gr of LongShot (maximum, do not exceed!!!) gave 1,160fps and 1-2” groups at 7yds, (93gr Lee RN PC w/HF powder) though I wasn’t trying for accuracy so much as looking for yawing or keyholes. (None).
Like it’s progenitor the .32acp, there isn’t much to recommend it balliitically, but it’s a tack driver and a hoot to shoot. Besides, ITS DIFFERENT!

Yeah, I’ve got some 115gr .308” FMJ’s I’ll try in it. As well as some 110gr Varminter JHP’s. Being as they are intended for rifles I won’t expect much expansion.
 
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WARNING, THIS POSTING CONTAINS LOAD DATA THAT HAS NOT BEEN LABRATORY TESTED AND VERIFIED BY AN INDEPENDENT SOURCE. THE RESULTS ARE MY OBSERVATIONS AND NOT RECOMMENDATIONS.

Well I finally got around to collating the data from two reloading sessions and my first trip to the range.

First, the range trip.

This target is the first 10rds I fired though the.30SC.
not 10ft, not 10yds, but 25yds! Yikes! I’ve got $X,XXX target pistols that won’t do this!

Last two shots in the black square were last two shots of 40rds I fired. Used a center hold instead of 6o’clock hold. The sights are regulated to hit at 12oclock on the white dots.
The fit of the barrel in the slide is such you have to lightly push it out of battery to remove the barrel. I’ve never seen such a good fit on a production line pistol.
5F76A455-8AE8-43DF-BE01-E46FF781861C.jpeg A6B79C31-528A-4AB3-BD04-9E1B8CF9A752.jpeg

. 4A524837-444E-4D2D-A8F5-5C1A91541867.jpeg

Velocities were close to advertised.

After producing fired brass, I embarked on production of some reloads to start to get an idea of what will produce good practice/plinking/field loads.
For starters, I used data for the .32acp as a departure point. Some immediate observations were noted.
HP38 was the first powder I tried. I started at 2.5 and stopped at 3.5gr with a 93gr Lee RN @.314” powder coated. NONE of the combinations proved acceptable! 3.5 gave lightly cratered primers and still failed to cycle the slide. Velocity was 1.050fps. Substitution of a 100gr RN Lee 2R with charges reduced to 3.3gr yields 1,000fps, slightly cratered primers, and only 1of 3 cases locked the slide back.

NEXT I tried what I expected to be a good powder. I was not disappointed.
LongShot was started at 2.8 and stopped at 4.5gr. 3.9gr with a 93gr bullet began to give weak but consistent ejection. Velocity is 1,070fps. Pressures not remarkable. 4.2 is a good working load, and I deem 4.5gr as a maximum as primers were showing light cratering and swipe marks equal to factory loaded ammo. Velocity is 1,170fps (3-shots).
4.2gr of LS with a 100gr Lee, gave 1,100fps. Three 113gr Lee RFN-GC over 3..7 gave 933fps and tight grouping at 7yds. I’ll be revisiting this bullet after I cast some more and powder coat without a GC.

Acc #5 is close to LS. Top load came in at 4.9 with the 93gr RN @ 1,070fps. 4.7gr w100gr RN @1,020fps.

Acc#7 was the best tested yet. Maximum with the 100gr RN was 6.6gr and yielded 1,140fps with just slightly cratered primer (1of 3). This is approaching factory level performance.

A fifth powde was tried for jee-wiz purpose.
#2400 won’t work!
I started at 3.5gr that clocked at 413fps! I was surprised it didn’t stick in the barrel. I eventually worked up to a near compressed load of 6.2gr that ejected but didn’t lock the slide back.

Of particular interest is that start loads (ones that give complete ejection and slide lock back) are typically only 0.5 to 0.9gr below maximum (primer cratering with pin swipe). This was based on what I observed from Federal factory ammo.
I probably need to mention that I used a target set at 7yds and a chronograph set at 15ft to ensure that beginning loads cleared the barrel.

At present, no industry (powder or bullet manufacturers) data is available.
Proceed with caution at your own risk..

And BTW, it’s not SAAMI accepted yet...
 
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Federal certainly is attempting to create a market for the 30SC that will give it an edge and allow better margins for the ammo in the future. 9mm ammo competition is very strong and there is very little opportunity to increase margin.
As far as being better, we need to look at 5.7X28 and .22TCM. Both of these are considered "better" by many but both have very little space on the gun store shelfs.
 
I didn't read the previous pages of replies by people that are likely much smarter and savvy than me when it comes to caliber performance, pressures, wound channels, etc, etc.

However, I am an American firearms consumer who carries a Sig P365 as my daily carry who has read a couple of articles on the .30 Super Carry and can share my initial thoughts and reactions.

So, from the articles I read, the ONLY advantage of the .30 SC is a couple of extra rounds in a pistol that was previously chambered in 9mm.

It has the same recoil, with worse terminal ballistics, as the 9mm.

I am an admitted capacity junkie, which is why I went with the P365 with the 12-round magazines. The exact same pistol, with 14-rounds, with the same recoil and decreased effectiveness did not blow any air up my skirt.

I see no reason for this new caliber. 9mm is at the absolute bottom of the caliber effectiveness scale that I will carry, and I much prefer a .40 S&W or 10mm on my hip.

The .30 SC is just not an option for me.
 
Trey Veston said:
I am an admitted capacity junkie, which is why I went with the P365 with the 12-round magazines.
Click to expand...

If you need to feed the capacity addiction consider the MagGut's +2 round kit for 14 rounds into a Sig 12 rd magazine. It's easier to load and rack with the 14 round MagGuts kit than it is with the stock SIg mag loaded to 12 rds.

https://magguts.com/product/sig-sauer-p365-2-for-12-round-magazine/
https://magguts.com/product/sig-sauer-p365-xl-2-for-12-round-magazine/
 
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To me, it's an answer to a question not many people are asking. I do not doubt it could be effective, but it really does not seem to do much more than existing calibers do. YMMV.
 
I’m wondering if it will be picked up by the NRA Bullseye crowd since center fire stages and international matches are often fired with the 32 Smith and Wesson long for its apparent accuracy and the 30 Super is the same bullet diameter. With this “rimless” version, maybe the magicians who build two inch, fifty yard 1911’s will start tinkering with this cartridge for an ultra-accurate, low recoil center fire stage gun. I see one of the hurdles in something that is often overlooked when diagnosing accuracy issues. With such a small case volume and the primary tool used by high volume shooters (Dillon 550/650) capable of about +/- .15 grains of powder at best, it is going to be difficult to get the tolerance of the thrown charges down to a low enough value to ensure a low velocity spread which is one of the components of an accurate load. The tolerance is already bad enough when loading 4.2 grains of powder (45 acp / Bullseye, Clays….) but now when you are shooting for maybe 2.5 grains in the 30 Super and you get anything from 2.35 to 2.65, this tolerance might be this cartridges Achilles heel?
 
fxvr5 said:
https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/exclusive-consistent-velocity-accuracy/
Click to expand...

This is a great article and has been my experience for years. I get a chuckle out of the various gunwriter "experts" waxing on about why low ES and SD in handgun loads is essential for accuracy. It's obvious they have no experience and are repeating hogwash they have read or heard elsewhere, from another idiot. Other than consistency in terminal effect, low SD or ES has no bearing on accuracy in a handgun.

Thanks for posting that!

One other thing I fail to understand is the Hate Parade for anything that is new or different from the four corners of one's little existence. Most of the .30 Super Carry comments fall into this group. These folks are triggered by a little .32 magnum pistol cartridge that they don't want. Well then, why not move on to a topic you like? I'm enjoying both of mine just fine :D
 
I wonder if .30 SC will have issues like splitting cases as seems to occur with full-power .327 Federal more than lower-pressure cartridges?
 
I’ve not encountered split cases yet (6-10 loadings).

The only thing is that it’s such a high pressure cartridge that primer piercing is possible.
Hodgdons recently published.30SC data and recommended using Federal #205 small rifle primers.

My next round of reloading will use SR primers.
I got a NOE 100gr FN 5-cavity mold to feed it. More follow up later.
 
RainDodger said:
I like my .38 Super just fine. There are just too many calibers nowadays, but I'm an old guy and set in my ways.
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I understand!!!

I had a Springfield Armory M1911 in .38Super. I much preferred it to a 9mm but NRA PPC rules changed and I sold it and got a S&W 5906PC IDPA that I took 2nd and 3rd at the Nationals with.
I miss the .38Super! It’s a superior cartridge design to the 9mm IMO.
It’s just too long to fit in most 9mm frames.

The .30SC is just a “shrunk” .38Super without the tiny rim...
 
My .38 Super is a slightly modified Kimber Pro Carry (all stainless, 4" 1911). It's pretty heavy for its size, but it sure is fun. It has handled everything I've put in it and it hasn't choked. Highly reliable. The only mod operational mod is a Wilson flat recoil spring. I think the new .30 is just another way to expand the pistol and ammo lines to make more money. I think other calibers work just as well. Unless you're someone that wants more and more rounds in a magazine, etc. I'm ok with 8+1 in the .38 Super if need be.
 
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