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THR: Battle Rifle Discussion & Picture Thread

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by dak0ta, Mar 7, 2013.

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  1. centurion20000

    centurion20000 Member

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    Allow me to make a small, short respectful rebuttal on your post. :)
    First point: Uses all standard accessories for an AR-15. Moot point. Second point , a 30-06 loaded to 65K psi loadings will blow a 308 in the dust.
    Second point: Logistics Have you priced 308 ammo lately? 1.00 - 1.50 a round is common. 30-06 can still be acquired very very easily for 60 cents for surplus. I can walk into almost any wal-mart in America and still pick up a box at will. Cant do that with a 308 / 7.62x51.
    Finally, using that long action AR which is actually priced about the same as an AR-10 (google it) allows me to load and customize into some very exotic and interesting cartridges.
     
  2. Tinpig

    Tinpig Member

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    Springfield 03 and Remington 03A3:

    IMG_0125-1.gif

    Things of beauty. And loaded to about 75% they're just as accurate at 100-200 yds. and comfortable to shoot all day.

    Tinpig
     
  3. centurion20000

    centurion20000 Member

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    BN-36 .... a 30-06 AR pattern rifle

    20130523_210009-2_zps8dddac1e.jpg

    Time to get rid of all my 5.56 stuff. I've found the PERFECT battle rifle. :D
     
  4. Eaglestroker

    Eaglestroker Member

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    Do the magazines load with enbloc clips? I'm drooling over here...
     
  5. MJ

    MJ Member

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    Some may think this post has lost it's way but it's still interesting for a few reasons. But I have one question. Do they really shoot better if you paint them?? LOL ;)

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  6. centurion20000

    centurion20000 Member

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    Eaglestroker : No, they don't need enblocs. I just put that there because so many people already commented elsewhere ... so it's a 308 AR-10 ... big deal.

    No, it's a 30-06 ... which at 65k psi (it's rated for 270/25-06 loadouts as well) will blow a 308 in the dust.


    I cant wait to get a second upper for it. Then I can have a 338-06 / 35 Whelen / 9.3X63 or 375 Whelen battle rifle. :)
     
  7. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    If it works. Others have tried and failed.

    What exactly is your idea of "blow a .308 in the dust"? What is it you think a 30-06 will do that a .308 won't?

    I don't necessarily think that giving up compatibility with the .308 casing is a trade up. AR-10s can be chambered in .243, 7mm-08, .260 Rem, .308, and .338 Federal, all with the same bolt and magazine.
     
  8. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    Why is Chris holding his support arm up and awkwardly off to the side?
     
  9. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    I'll play...

    Picked up this PTR91 for $650 with a bunch of mags and ammo circa 2006. I put an M4 style stock and aluminum forearm on it. Nice shooter.

    Bought this M1A with match barrel, VLTOR rail/bipod, several mags, and 4,000 rounds of ammo for $2,000 circa 2009 at a gun show. Guy was carrying the rifle around for hours with a sign on it and he was exhausted and frustrated and wanted to go home. He had the ammo in his truck. Basically bought the rifle and got the ammo for free!
     

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  10. Warp

    Warp Member

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    Doesn't look awkward to me.

    Because that's how he runs it. Support hand forward with thumb over the top or high/pointed forward is very good for quick action/reaction and pointability/control

    4056259324_c42e2ce1c5.jpg
     
  11. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    Guess we all have our opinions. But I was always trained to keep your support arm elbow North/South as much as possible. Adds stability, is more natural, less tiresome, and your elbow doesn't tend to poke around corners when you "pie" around corners or are behind cover. And even more weird is that he's reaching in front of, and not using, the forward grip.

    When I was a staff officer in Special Forces, we had an incident where a Green Beret blew his thumb off reaching too far forward on his Short Barreled M4... Chris appears to be dangerously close to the end of that rifle he's operating... I can see NO need and lots of reasons against reaching so far forward. And it's actually SLOWER to reach the extra distance both to reload and get your hand back on the forearm...

    Quicker: I disagree.
    Better control vs. either holding the mag well, standard rifle forearm hold, or the FOREWARD GRIP?!: I strongly disagree.

    But I digress.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2013
  12. Warp

    Warp Member

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    He probably is using the vertical foregrip as a reference point. Notice that his support hand is up against the VFG. You don't have to grab a VFG and wrap your hand around it in order to use it. It can be used much the way a handstop would be as well. And be used other ways at other times and in other situations that a handstop couldn't (or couldn't do as well at).

    For many people what is 'natural' comes down to what you spend time doing. Personally I find it more natural to point/aim at something with my elbow to the side than up/down. Look at somebody who reaches their arm out to point at something, they probably do it palm down/elbow pointed where it would bend out.

    Who is Chad?

    Have you watched any of Chris Costa's videos? There are a lot of short examples on YouTube. You should check them out.
     
  13. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    I have not watched his videos. People can learn all sorts of wrong but comfortable stances. Ever watch female shooters stand on one foot with all their weight on one foot, or lean completely back, arching their back rearward?

    I'm no infantryman, but I've had my fair share of combat training and deployment experiences. I'd suggest that he could improve with a different forearm grip. And again, it's not tactically sound either, pointing your elbows out to the side. Makes you a bigger target, and exposes you from cover. Get shot in that wing sticking out, and you won't be combat effective any longer...

    But that's not what this thread is about and I don't want to hijack. Just an observation.
     
  14. Warp

    Warp Member

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    Perhaps you should before you go on a rant saying why he shouldn't do what he does.

    PS: With the forward grip your elbow isn't sticking way out the side like you seem to be implying.
     
  15. murf

    murf Member

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    lets drop it. this is going in a bad direction.

    murf
     
  16. centurion20000

    centurion20000 Member

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    Well I certainly do think it's a trade up considering the 308 was a compromise cartridge from the get-go for logistics reasons and MG functionality. Not saying 308 won't kill, but I just prefer to carry the same cartridge my grandfather carried in WWII.

    Things a 30-06 will do that a 308 wont ... extra 20% powder capacity, make 1500 yards supersonic with the right 200+ grain bullet, hits harder, has an AP round the cops won't give you crap about (M2-AP is specifically expempted from AP ammo laws) and is available and cheaper than 308 in any Wal-Mart even through the worst of the ammo crisis of 2013.

    Surplus 30-06 is still plentiful and the cartridge itself is the top selling round in America.

    As far as compatibility .... 25-06, 270, 280 Rem, 338-06 A-Square, 35 Whelen, 9.3x62 and if I go wildcat I have about 12 more cartridges to choose from (Hawk series, pretty much anything from .224 to .416 and all the derivatives in between) on the same bolt face as well.

    If anything the 30-06 derived rounds have MORE chamberings than the 308.

    20130523_205427-1_zps3c67e563.jpg
     
  17. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    20% more case capacity does not equal a 20% boost in performance. The whole idea of the .308 was to make a .30 caliber cartridge which near equals a 30-06 in performance. And making a hot load is one thing. Making it work in a long-action AR is another thing entirely. There is a reason that all previous attempts at a long-action AR have gone away.

    If you want an -06 because it's what your grandfather carried, do whatever you want. But he didn't carry an AR-pattern rifle in 30-06. I inherited my grandfather's 1917 Enfield.
     
  18. barnbwt

    barnbwt Member

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    Mainly, the bigger case allows for bigger bullets. In that respect, the '06 is beyond the capabilities of 308. The 45-70 vs 45-90 performance difference has less to do with higher power delivery than higher lead delivery.

    The primary benefit of an '06 length AR is that it could be rechambered to all sorts of neat cartridges that you'd never get the chance for in an AR10, let alone an AR15 pattern.

    Someone should make a 45-06 upper for that baby! :cool:

    I agree with the second part, not the first part. And 30-06 costs a bit more simply due to raw materials, in a normal market. I can't remember the last time I saw milsurp '06 that wasn't priced about the same as cheap new-production, or was not corrosive (which I wouldn't feed to anything as expensive/nice as an auto-loading 30-06)

    TCB

    *since this thread is tending toward caliber and tactic wars, I'll chip in with "my FNAR qualifies as a battle rifle" :D ;)

    P7220050.jpg
     
  19. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    However, it still remains to be seen that this rifle or magazine will be able to chamber say, 30-06 in 220s.

    AGAIN, this is not the first time someone has built an AR for LA cartridges.
     
  20. Hanshi

    Hanshi Member

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    This is my battle rifle.

    7aec43e1-99ab-4076-b0be-a869c91de4c8_zps01de9e6c.jpg

    Not too modern but still effective.
     
  21. Send_It

    Send_It Member

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    Centurion 20000,

    Any information you can post about this rifle would be very helpful!

    Some of us still have 3 months to wait before our rifles ship.

    I cant wait to launch 208 AMAXs at 2,800ft/s...try that with a 308 of similar barrel length and SAAMI OAL.
     
  22. Miami_JBT

    Miami_JBT Member

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    CAM00506_zpsfb20523f.jpg

    From left to right

    Remington 1917 M91 Finnish Civil Guard Issue
    Izhevsk 1939 M91/30 Finnish Army Caputre and Rebuild
    Izhevsk 1943 M91/30 Soviet Issue
    Izhevsk 1934 M91/30 Soviet Issue Ex-Dragoon
    VKT 1941 M39 Finnish Issue
    Polish 1953 M44 Carbine
    Izhevsk 1944 M38 Carbine Soviet Issue
     
  23. CharlieDeltaJuliet

    CharlieDeltaJuliet Member

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    My long range needs...300WM
    IMG_3176.jpg

    My close range HK MR556
    IMG_1833.gif
     
  24. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    centurion20000,

    I was excited about Noreen, too, but after a very pleasant conversation, they have not returned my emails since.

    leadcounsel,

    You're barking up the wrong tree. My training was similar to yours. Unlike you, I was infantry...but I also pay attention. And a lot of competitors are using a similar stance to Costas...so until you can demonstrate that you outshoot these pros, I suggest you clam up. Your hypothetical female shooters are not the ones winning matches.

    John
     
  25. blarby

    blarby Member

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    Well, I suppose I only have two that qualify.

    Both belong to my wife, go figure.

    Top is a VEPR in .308 win. Nothing hard to obtain there.

    Bottom is an Inland M1 Carbine, with a VERY low 4 digit # and a 7-42 Date. Thanks to that, I KNOW where this one was- and it was used against things with red dots on their flags. Love this'n.

    Battle on......

    Although if it ever comes to it, I still think I prefer lighter ammuniton. Unless you've ever had to hump a battlepack like some of the folks that have posted here, I don't think you get to make the call on what makes a better battle round !

    Carry 10 mags for that VEPR.... I'll take ten mags for M4.... have double the rounds, and have enough weight savings for water or an extra 'plate.


    Not that it really matters, but there aren't a lot of combat shots that call for this. If you regularly need 1500 yard shots, you should choose a much different rifle.
     

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