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THR: Battle Rifle Discussion & Picture Thread

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by dak0ta, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    The M1 Carbine is an intermediate power round like the 5.56x45mm, 5.45x39mm, and 7.62x39mm, to name a few.

    I love the platform, though...:)

    John
     
  2. Merle1

    Merle1 Member

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    Try Graf & son, I have bought ammo for the 8x56 Steyr from them.
     
  3. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Here's a picture on Zak Smith's site of a shooter using the hand position in question...Zak is correctly considered a subject matter expert.
     
  4. Trent
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    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    What sort of range do they shoot with that hold?

    I tried it out on the range this week @200 and my hits went from good to notsogood.
     
  5. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, it's an alternative hold for controlling recoil. I don't use it myself, and I'd imagine it takes some adjustment- but then again, I never shoot offhand past 100 meters.

    John
     
  6. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

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    Relatively close.

    It is for recoil mitigation and rapid target transitions, not punching paper. Having the support hand out toward the muzzle allows you to really yank it around with alacrity.


    Watch this team Colt shooter:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y_4m0q7PlQ
     
  7. Warp

    Warp Senior Member

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    It's better for speed, speed of acquisition, and speed of transferring between targets.

    Of course nothing is guaranteed, but if I have to shoot something that is 200 yards /meters away, I'm probably going to be able to go prone or at least sit or kneel, or use a barricade type solid object for support, I'm probably not going to stand motionless upright
     
  8. Trent
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    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    You should practice it.

    It's a good way to win cases of beer in bets with friends. :)
     
  9. Warp

    Warp Senior Member

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    Practice what?
     
  10. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    I think he means longer-distance offhand shooting.

    Personally, I think that's like practicing knife throwing: potentially useful somewhere, sometime, but very far down the list of priorities.
     
  11. Trent
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    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Yup, that's what I meant. :)

    Shooting from the bench, or prone, gets pretty boring after awhile. Gotta up the difficulty.
     
  12. Warp

    Warp Senior Member

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    I do not know how you concluded that I never practice shooting while standing. But just to be clear...I do practice shooting offhand, standing upright, rifle, shotgun, and pistol.

    And I never shoot anything from the bench, unless I get suckered into going to one of those piece of **** ranges that requires it.

    My interpretation of the thread at the time was that the stance shown above wouldn't be as good for shooting offhand at 200 yards, and my position is that it is faster on target and faster in transitions, and faster in moving (your body), which is why it's my primary practical stance for shooting a rifle/carbine. And, practically speaking, for uses other than trying to win bets with people for poops and giggles, if I need to shoot something 200 yards away I'm probably not going to do it standing motionless upright. ;)
     
  13. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    i shoot kind of as pictured out to about 100 yards on 8x10 torso sized targets. any smaller or farther away and i switch to more of a high power/cmp stance.

    lately, i'm mostly shooting a 10" SBR so i can't put my hand nearly that far out, but the concept is still pretty much the same
     
  14. Trent
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    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    I have no doubt if offers more control over transitioning the muzzle fast from one point to another. And I certainly wasn't trying to insult you or imply you don't practice shooting standing. I should have phrased it differently, "everyone" should practice, not "you", specifically.

    To clarify, if you practice offhand shooting at short range, and ONLY short range, you (may) find it builds in bad habits that become more difficult to correct for longer range shooting. The finesse and body control required to shoot accurately at long range can be difficult to get a grip on. Little things like slight inward leg tension, bending the knees just right (not too little, not too much), tightening the stomach muscles to stiffen the torso, rotating the hips slightly to create sprung tension to create a relaxed lock in the middle, can be ignored.

    If the skill is acquired to shoot offhand at 200+ yards, it naturally translates in to shorter ranges. Ramp up the difficulty and it *requires* you tweak and finesse to score hits. That becomes muscle memory to become that much better at any range.

    Anyway, wasn't trying to pick a fight, just trying to make a point. :)
     
  15. Warp

    Warp Senior Member

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    How many MOA are you talking with the standing shooting?
     
  16. Trent
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    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    If I watch my caffeine intake, and I'm in the zone, 2.5-3 MOA @200 offhand. I shot 2.5 on the nose (10 shot group) this Tuesday, offhand, when I was out practicing with my son. I've done better, and I've done a lot worse, but that's been about my average lately. Score wise, I'm normally 80+/100 on a standard NRA target on offhand, 85-90 on kneeling, 90-95 on sitting, and 96+ on prone (no bipod). Benchrest, I'm 100/100 unless I do something stupid. :)
     
  17. Ro1911

    Ro1911 Member

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    I guess my battle rifle is my 1918a2 BAR

    Get ready to drool lol.

    [​IMG]

    image.jpg
     
  18. Aaron1100us

    Aaron1100us Member

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    7.62x54R Fun :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Sent from my SCH-R760 using Tapatalk 2
     
  19. fragout

    fragout Member

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    From left to right:

    M14S, M1A-A1, WASR 10-63

    EDIT: Disregard the WASR, as it dont count for purpose of this thread. The wife claimed it regardless.....lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  20. henschman

    henschman Senior Member

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    The squared up/support hand far forward grip is a very effective close range speed shooting and competition position. But try it sometime when you are worn out and exhausted. It doesn't work so well, as it relies on a lot of muscle. Something closer to a mag well grip where you can get your support elbow against your body is good for when you are tired... like at a 7 mile run n gun in the desert, or any number of real world situations.

    If you have a small or distant target and are forced to shoot from standing (as real world conditions often require), first off utilize any solid support you can find. If none, to get the absolute most stability out of standing, stand about 90 degrees off target, relax the support hand, use a sling if you can, get the support elbow against the rib cage, feet about shoulder width apart, chicken wing the trigger elbow to open the pocket, and get the stock high in the shoulder pocket so you are standing more upright rather than hunched down to get cheek weld.

    No one technique is best for all situations. The well-rounded shooter knows all of them, and when they are best employed.
     
  21. PabloJ

    PabloJ Senior Member

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    Gee, with those pics you stole the thread. There is no better semi-auto military style rifles that a civilian could ever wish for.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2013
  22. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    200 yard NRA target used for standing has 3" x ring and 6" 10 ring so shooting 3 moa would give you a clean 100/100
     
  23. Trent
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    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    If we were using the standing targets, yes it would. :)

    We use A-21's @200, TQ4(T) A-15's at 100, and TQ3/1 A-9 at 50.

    The A-21 X ring is 2", 10 ring 4" so 3 MOA won't get you a perfect score. I also have this problem finding the exact center, and always seem to somehow get 1 or 2 shots that I twitch on. The TQ3/1 targets we use on our standing stage (which is at 50 yds), are proportionally scaled to the A21s we use at 200, but feel soooooo tiny. The bull is 0.5".

    This was my best run of 4, this week with a scoped FNAR.

    [​IMG]

    That high-left shot probably puts it closer to 5 MOA than 3.

    (This is why you should never believe shooting stories without pictures - I mentally chalked it up as 1/2 of what it actually was; fortunately my son took pictures to keep me honest!) My son says I have "aimhacks" in my head. Not sure what that means.


    FWIW my iron sight skills with a lighter rifle are not quite so good. Same day, same ammo, but SCAR17 w/ iron sights instead of FNAR w/ scope. Light rifles are so damn "bouncy".

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Trent
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    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Yeah those pictures are jawdropping!
     
  25. highpower

    highpower Member

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    Another M1A: This one was produced in January of 1987 and came from the factory with all GI parts. I bought this recently and it seems to be virtually unfired

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

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