THR Remington 1858 Club

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Does this one qualify? It is the first Remington revolver I have ever owned.

I got this one at auction three weeks ago. It is a Dixie Gun Works Remington (AH/1981), marked ".44 CAL NEW MODEL ARMY", stamped DGG (Armi San Paolo) on the underside of the barrel hidden by the load lever. Assembly numbers (113) appear on the barrel, cylinder pin, frame under grips, and grips. It has a turn ring on the cylinder but the bolt clears early upon cocking until full cock. Depending upon which camp you are in, it is either a Remington Beals or an early Italian 1858 Remington because there are less than two barrel threads exposed, unlike the "classic" 1858 revolver. I got it at what I consider a fair price these days ($320). The gun appears not to have been fired, the load lever is somewhat stiff, and the cylinder pin appears to have never been moved.

Rem-Beals-DGG-ASP-013.jpg

Rem-Beals-DGG-ASP-001.jpg

Rem-Beals-DGG-ASP-005.jpg

Rem-Beals-DGG-ASP-010.jpg

Rem-Beals-DGG-ASP-012.jpg

Rem-Beals-Comparison.jpg

Regards,

Jim
 
Good afternoon, gentlemen! I find myself in possession of a bit of disposable income and have pretty much decided I would like to add a Remington BP revolver to my "arsenal". I have a couple questions for you, having come up short with my searches in this thread.

* Are the shorter-barrelled Sheriff models sold by Pietta historically accurate? That is, were shortened barrels either produced by Remington or modified by owners/gunsmiths in the 19th century?
* Is there a significant difference in quality between Uberti and Pietta? (I own a Pietta Colt Navy London, which I think is pretty nice.)
* The Navy model .36 was originally built on a medium frame, the .44 on a large frame. Are the currently offered .36 models built on a smaller frame? Detailed specs are hard to come by. I see one marketed by Cimarron which claims parts interchangability with original ones.

My ideal would be a shorter barrel (5.5"-6.5") .36 cal model on a medium frame, unless such pistols are fantasy models (I haven't come across one of these). 2nd would be a 7.5" .36 on a medium frame. 3rd choice, short .44 with the same proviso as 1st choice. 4th, a standard .44.

Well-reasoned opinions, curmudgeonly gripes, tangentially-connected observations, and wild-eyed rants welcome.

Wil
 
WilTx said:
Good afternoon, gentlemen! I find myself in possession of a bit of disposable income and have pretty much decided I would like to add a Remington BP revolver to my "arsenal". I have a couple questions for you, having come up short with my searches in this thread.

* Are the shorter-barrelled Sheriff models sold by Pietta historically accurate? That is, were shortened barrels either produced by Remington or modified by owners/gunsmiths in the 19th century?
Click to expand...

No. The Navy version came with a shorter barrel, but it was still longer than the Sheriff version. No doubt there were probably more than a few shorty conversions crafted up by 'smiths of the day, but none by E. Remington and Sons

WilTx said:
* Is there a significant difference in quality between Uberti and Pietta? (I own a Pietta Colt Navy London, which I think is pretty nice.)
Click to expand...

Depends on your POV. Uberti's QC has taken some hits in the last few years while Pietta's has come way up. Recently, Pietta's bluing has surpassed Uberti's in my opinion. All the current production Pietta guns are CAM/CAD design which means perfect fit drop-in parts.

WilTx said:
* The Navy model .36 was originally built on a medium frame, the .44 on a large frame. Are the currently offered .36 models built on a smaller frame? Detailed specs are hard to come by. I see one marketed by Cimarron which claims parts interchangability with original ones.
Click to expand...

The Pietta Navy uses the same frame and cylinder dimensions (underbored cylinder) with the shorter Navy barrel installed. The Uberti models use the correct smaller dimensions

WilTx said:
My ideal would be a shorter barrel (5.5"-6.5") .36 cal model on a medium frame, unless such pistols are fantasy models (I haven't come across one of these). 2nd would be a 7.5" .36 on a medium frame. 3rd choice, short .44 with the same proviso as 1st choice. 4th, a standard .44.
Click to expand...
Go with the Uberti Navy for your first choice. Second would be a Pietta Navy, third a Pietta Army "Sheriff". Fourth, either a Pietta or Uberti Army model.

WilTx said:
Good
Well-reasoned opinions, curmudgeonly gripes, tangentially-connected observations, and wild-eyed rants welcome.
Wil
Click to expand...

Take your pick of the above as to my character!
 
I have had correspondence with Cimarron about the .36 cal Remington. Their Navy (Uberti, I think) frame is the same size as the Army. And parts are NOT interchangeable with the originals; my respondent is asking that this claim be removed from their website.

So, I think my choice is going to be a .44 New Model Army. .... Or *maybe* a "sheriff" model. Might come down to what I can find in stock!

Addendum: I found a picture online with an original NMA next to an original NMN. Navy isn't much smaller. Looking at pics of Uberti Army and Navy on Dixie Gun Works site may have convinced me that the Navy is indeed different, if only slightly. Recoil shield cutout and grip size appears to be different, also top strap contour near barrel. Maybe I should stop nit-picking and just buy one, hmmm?

Here's the link to the photo of a NMA, NMN, and a Beals Navy:

http://www.armscollectors.com/mgs/an_army_and_two_navies_pt_1.htm
 
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OK. I have placed an order for a NMA (yes, Army) Uberti with Dixie Gun Works. I presume I will need to post a picture of the revolver to become an official member of the club?

Now I need to source some balls. Will .454 be big enough, or should I go with .457? I use .380 balls in my Pietta Colt Navy.

Never mind. Ordered some .457 cast balls from the Log Cabin Shop.
 
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You're welcome! Hope it made the decision easier!
.457 *might* be a little tight...both my ASP Remington's take a .457 with a bit of elbow grease, and they shoot them well also...better than the .454s. My Piettas don't seem to like them (.457's)....way too much force required "on the gun". I'm afraid of bending or breaking the loading lever. If you had a remote loading press like the old 'Tower of Power', it would likely be no problem. Haven't had any opportunity yet to shoot my Santa Barbara yet so can't say what that one likes. I've never owned a Uberti NMA so can't really comment on what ball works best...
Round balls "obturate" and once wedged into the chamber, they've effectively sized themselves to fit the bore nicely. And a non-chamfered cylinder will generally shave off a ring of lead to effectively size it to fit the bore.
I'd suggest trying both and keeping careful notes as to what works better with what powder charge. Once you settle on a good load, stick with it.
 
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Yes, valuable insights. More information is better than less. While having a second revolver in .36 cal would have been more efficient from the ammo perspective, I leaned toward what I believe to be the most historically accurate choice (short of paying thousands for an original, which I would no be inclined to shoot, even if I could justify the expense, etc., etc.)

Regarding ball diameter, nominal .375" balls don't consistently produce a complete ring of lead upon seating in my Navy, but .380" balls do. Note that the .375 balls I have are the ones that come in the Black Powder Starter Kit sold by EMF, and they measure a couple thou small. Maybe other sources provide more accurately sized pills.

The pistol I ordered was shown to be in stock. Hopefully won't take very long to get here. In any case, I have been avoiding the range lately due to the virus, so no loss in shooting time. Looking forward to that situation changing in the near future.
 
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WilTx said:
Yes, valuable insights. More information is better than less. While having a second revolver in .36 cal would have been more efficient from the ammo perspective, I leaned toward what I believe to be the most historically accurate choice (short of paying thousands for an original, which I would no be inclined to shoot, even if I could justify the expense, etc., etc.)

Regarding ball diameter, nominal .375" balls don't consistently produce a complete ring of lead upon seating in my Navy, but .380" balls do. Note that the .375 balls I have are the ones that come in the Black Powder Starter Kit sold by EMF, and they measure a couple thou small. Maybe other sources provide more accurately sized pills.

The pistol I ordered was shown to be in stock. Hopefully won't take very long to get here. In any case, I have been avoiding the range lately due to the virus, so no loss in shooting time. Looking forward to that situation changing in the near future.
Click to expand...

You may eventually reach the stage where pre-cast or swaged round balls become prohibitively expensive and/or unobtanium, at which point you may move into casting your own, so now is the time to begin experimenting with what's available so you know which bullet mould to shop for if and when that time comes. I've found that the Lee .450 200 gr conical works well in the NMA as well, but may require relieving the clearance area surrounding the loading lever plunger depending on manufacturer. There are also some tapered conicals (IIRC by Eras Gone By) that load easier. The world's your oyster, so play around and find what works best for you.
 
Now I am an official member! Presenting my just-arrived Uberti Remington new Model Army!

Uberti Rem NMA.jpg

2021 production. Fit and finish pretty good (grips slightly proud). Timing seems good; no bolt ring. Just a bit of cylinder play after hammer fall. Curious to me, lockup when cocked seems tighter. I had to play with it for a while to get the cylinder back in after initial takedown to wipe off shipping oil. Barrel-cylinder gap appears to be approximately zero -- do you measure that as with a Colt? Front sight is SKINNY!

WilTx
 
Nice piece of iron there, WilTx! Barrel/cyl gap should be .003-.005, although in this case, less is more. The cylinder probably feels tighter at full cock because you have both the hand and the bolt engaged simultaneously. Something tells me you will really enjoy this gun.
 
I went out shooting this last week with my son and the 58 Remington shot great and shot point of aim without any filing of the front blade sight. Also, with Goons Guns suggestion of filling the frame with Mobile 1 grease worked great. I shot 3 full cylinders without a hitch. Thank you Mike! The only cleaning I did was the barrel, cyl, and the outside of the frame. Only once did a cap fall into the area in front of the hammer and not fall of when rotating the cyl and that was a split second fix. Sorry no pics but it began to rain in the White Mountin area of St. Johns AZ and the target lines ran terrible. Lionel, my son had a blast-so to speak-shooting the Remmie for the first time shooting a BP gun. It brought back fun to shooting since only shooting conventional weapons for my years in the Navy. This week I am heading out to shoot and will post picks for sure.
 
No, This 1858 is a factory conversion made by Taylor’s. It has been tuned and the sights modified for Cowboy Action Shooting.
 
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