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Threat of arrest for empty holster

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by divemedic, Mar 23, 2010.

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  1. divemedic

    divemedic Member

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    I was attempting to enter the courthouse in Osceola County, Florida. The Deputy asked me to remove all metal items and put them in a tray to be X-rayed. I knew what a pain it is to enter the courthouse, so I had left my firearm, handcuff keys (carried for work), watch, and wallet in my truck.

    She then asked if I had a belt with a metal buckle, and I replied that it was brass and would not set off the metal detector. She said that I still had to remove it, because their detectors were sensitive. (I didn't bother to explain to her how a magnetometer works, but you would think they would have training on the limitations and capabilities of their equipment.)

    When I did, I was forced to remove my holster and place it in the tray as well. From the looks on the Deputies' faces, you would think that I had produced a live cobra. They then threatened to arrest me for attempting to introduce a prohibited item into a secure facility (a felony). I told them that if they could find the statute that listed a leather holster as an illegal item, I would put the cuffs on myself. They let me go with a warning, after telling me that they alone get to decide what a prohibited item is.

    So much for the theory of it being impossible to unknowingly commit a felony.



    Edited to add: here is a link to the court website. Holsters are nowhere to be seen on the list.
     
  2. Nikdfish

    Nikdfish Member

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    But now you're on double secret probation! ;-)
     
  3. dovedescending

    dovedescending Member

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    :scrutiny: :mad: :fire: :cuss: :banghead:

    No, the legislative body does...
     
  4. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Security: Sir, we get to decide what prohibited items are.

    Divemedic: No, you don't. Have a nice day!

    /scene.
     
  5. Claude Clay

    Claude Clay Member

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    under the umbrella of--its not bragging if its true;

    its not cop bashing if its true:
    much abuse of 'the power to say NO' by those in power has led to
    a great many of the 'we the people' to being dissatisified.
    even the sheep are starting to rally against the establishment.

    ......better late than never.
     
  6. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    Wait, what does this have to do with being able to unknowingly commit a felony? The facts are:

    [1] You did not commit a felony.

    [2] You weren't arrested for committing a felony.

    [3] You weren't charged with committing a felony.

    [4] You weren't prosecuted for committing a felony.

    You were subjected to badgering by some idiots who obviously didn't know what they were doing, who realized that they had overstepped their bounds, and warned you because they were too churlish to admit that they made a mistake.

    How does all of that translate to "unknowingly committing a felony"?
     
  7. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Member

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    This. Not to mention I've never heard of the "theory of it being impossible to unknowingly commit a felony".
     
  8. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    How come I can find silver, copper, gold, aluminum, and brass items with my metal detector then?

    Don't they work the same way the metal detector works at the court house?

    It's not based on magnetism.
    It's based on an interruption of a electronic field produced by the search coil.
    All the metal has to be is able to do is conduct an electric current.

    rc
     
  9. divemedic

    divemedic Member

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    That was claimed by several members in this thread:

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=479651

    The Deputies claimed that any item that can be used as a weapon or aid in the escape of a prisoner is prohibited. They claimed that they were the sole determinants of what could be used as a weapon.

    I have worn this belt and holster into numerous courthouses all over central florida, and not once have they set off the magnetometer,
     
  10. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

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    Whenever I read something like this, I remember the scene from Dumb and Dumber. Jim Carey is running down the jetway with Lauren Holly's briefcase. An airport employee tries to stop him and he yells, "It's okay. I'm a chauffeur!"
     
  11. ForumSurfer

    ForumSurfer Member

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    ^^^What he said.

    I've seen brass do it. You may have a brass buckle, but there may be metal eyelets, a metal clasp, metal internal reinforcement or who knows what on there. They see hundreds of belts go through, so they're just covering their bases. It's not outrageous for them to ask for your belt. They have exactly 2-3 seconds to judge your demeanor. If you acted protective over your belt in any way, I don't blame them for asking.

    Now as far as the holster being a felony...that's another story. Me personally, I would have left it in the truck to avoid any questioning from the start. I would also have been rather peeved, made note of his name and possibly phoned the SO and asked for his Captain....depending on how mad I was after I calmed down and how disrespectful his tone was. Five minute later I may completely dismiss it and move on with my life, making a note to "leave holster in car" next time. ;)

    Also keep in mind that you may be dealing with rookies at the door, getting their feet wet. Be patient and grant them some slack. I know they hold a high position, but we all screw up. I've screwed up worse than that at my job without punishment. Many people start bashing "cops" the minute one makes a mistake. They haven't been trained on the law to the extent of a lawyer, they don't know 100% of the intricacies of their equipment and they occasionally goof up. Sounds like you acted rationally, but I know others that would have created a pretty bad scene and been thrown out of the building.
     
  12. heeler

    heeler Member

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    Well under that guise a pocket comb might be cause for a felony arrest.
     
  13. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    It doesn't matter what they claimed. You were not charged with any crime; you were not arrested; you were not prosecuted. You were merely bothered. The deputies may have been wrong and rude, but that doesn't have anything to do with the unknowing commission of a felony.
     
  14. NMGonzo

    NMGonzo Member

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    And what type of offense is to be rude, ignorant, and wrong?

    Raise the wage base; improve your force pool.
     
  15. kda

    kda Member

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    Sadly another case of people filling jobs that are way over their abilities or skills (mental in this case). The bluffing / blustering is a typical sign of people in over their heads.
     
  16. MetalHead

    MetalHead Member

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    The deputy should have just made a calm comment that it would make them feel much better if you didn't bring the holster next time.
     
  17. danprkr

    danprkr Member

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    Had a zoning guy tell me that there was no definition of "unclean premises" after he wrote me multiple tickets for it. He just got to decide. I then took them to court, and the city attorney pitched out all of the tickets since the city official was writing tickets he knew nothing about. Turned out that there is a "unclean premises" offense, but my wrecked car awaiting insurance settlement did not match it in any way shape form or fashion. Just a city bureaucrat lording it over us mere citizens.

    To this day I'm not sure if the guy was being intentionally dishonest to attempt to make his fine numbers better, or if he was stupid. Either way the city was scared to shine the light of day on the matter.

    It's hard to tell, but often it's like my mother says, "if they had the brains to be productive citizens they'd have a job instead of sponging off us!" Just as often it's them trying to suck up to their boss by pumping the numbers in someway. Hard to tell, but either way often if it's called it mysteriously disappears.
     
  18. gym

    gym member

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    I would call the clerk of the court, and tell him or her the story, just ask for clarification. They will do the rest.
     
  19. 19-3Ben

    19-3Ben Member

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    The clerk's office deals with pending legal matters in the court. They do not oversee the day-to-day management of the court, nor the marshals. There should be a head marshal's desk where they will address issues such as these.
     
  20. Hud

    Hud Member

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    Never take "No" from someone who doesn't have the authority to say "Yes".
     
  21. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

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    Hey...welcome to the great state of Florida!
     
  22. Impureclient

    Impureclient Member

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    Just for fun I would go back with the holster and tell them "stop threatening and arrest me."
    Nothing like a nice lawsuit to shake some sense into them. Just another case of law enforcement again thinking they are above the law.
    They need to be put in their place. The unemployment line, that is.
     
  23. Gouranga

    Gouranga Member

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    Not sure if it is the same there, but here the County Sheriff (assuming county courthouse) controls all security for the court house. If that is the case, you could go to the Sheriff and voice your concern to him.

    Personally, as tempting as it is, I would avoid deliberately antagonizing them. That is a game you just will not win. You need to be careful with your state laws. They had a guy arrested (and convicted) here for cussing at a cop who supposedly just said "Hello". The guys reportedly responded with <Duck Goo>, and was arrested for some statute on using language that was intended to provoke/incite an official, which IMO is a pretty scary law.
     
  24. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Member

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    Ok. You walk up to the gate of a nuclear power plant and tell the guard you are coming inside to see the facilities. The guard does not have the authority to tell you "yes". Good luck.
     
  25. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    Aluminum foil will set off a magnetometer, even the foiled paper from inside a cigarette pack.

    From the comments I gather the thinking here is there are no good or essential civil servants? Same for police?
     
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