Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Justaman, Sep 19, 2006.
As for facial injuries from brass - I've been hit with a few hot .45 cases in the head, doesn't hurt much more than getting gravel thrown up at you or sticks and acorns from a lawnmower.
Hope they don't catch on....
Im glad they dont know how to shoot, just like the muslims in the middle-east.
I think "works best" is a bit positive. I think "sucks the least" is probably more accurate.
RE Thugs hold their pistols sideways
I does depend on the weapon. Most weapons will be ineffective. However that depends alot on distance. If you are 10ft away this may work. Also it depends on the shooters skill. I have witnessed an LA County Sherrif do this at 20 yards with an M1911.
Talking about brass to the face:
I was instructing my brother to shoot my .45 from a weaver stance. He hadn't had much experience shooting a handgun. It might have been his first time. The very first shot he took, he limp wristed. The brass came back and hit him right between the eyes. He paused and had this bewildered look on his face. Later he said that for a brief moment he thought the brass was the bullet ricocheting back and hitting him in the head. He paused, because for a few milliseconds he thought his brain had exited the back of his skull and that he was dead. He was waiting blackness to overtake him. Or maybe the light or something. Brass to the face can happen in weaver as well as gangsta.
might have been a joke, i donno. its just what ive heard.
Where did you learn that you can hold a Mauser Pistol that way and be more effective? Would it not then work with any type of pistol? Is this some sort of Metal Gear thing?
Since they already had it there, the instructor had them fire from that position. He told me that is the way Israeli citizens are taught to shoot a pistol for self-defence.
Call me a liar if you want, but I saw it with my own two eyes."
I believe you, well as much as I believe anything on the internet... In my class the instructor explained that the origins were from the Russians. As you probably know the Russians took olympic pistol shooting seriously, and every 4 years they would invent a new pistol or technique. and win, and the olympics would ban that pistol. So they'd then invent another new thing, and another.
Well I was told that one olympics the Russians come and they all hold their pistols canted slightly off vertical. It seems that it's more ergonomic for the wrist to sit that way. Our teacher suspected hollywood saw that, and then with usual exaggeration ran with it.
However another guy told me that in Austria (internet...) they teach aircrew to fire their Glocks canted off vertical 1-handed, to recover from recoil faster.
Plus is you're doing the Israeli draw, why not start firing asap? Part of racking the slide is pushing the muzzle towards the target anyway, right?
On the brass front, I have a P22 that's sort of becoming notorious for throwing brass everywhere. I've had brass go two feet to the right, ten feet to the right, flip over the gun and land on the left, go over my head, hit me in the face, and once it went backwards far enough to hit the RO square between the eyes. Meanwhile, if you held the same stance you could probably get all of my PX4's brass to land in a strategically placed Dixie cup on the ground.
I agree. Brass happens.
Thus, it confuses eyewitnesses say in a shooting.
If you hold a handgun the proper way, it is unmistakable what you are holding. But the "thug hold", observed from a distance, you are unsure what is being pointed.
I don't, however, believe they do any training with the gun fired from this same position. It just provides increased leverage for racking the slide.
Also works very well for those with weaker hands - many times we are instructed to 'pull back the slide' but rarely to 'push foward with strong-side' at the same time.
However it is harder to hit somthing with the pistol held that way during firing.
I think the gangsters picked it up indapendantly from the Issy tecnique, just because it is perceived as cool.
I don't know if they shoot in this position.
Maybe the gangs want people to believe they are trained by Mossad?
For those of you who have tried this, how does it recoil? My guess would be still up for a revolver, and up and to the side for the semi? I can't see the recoil going sideways, no matter which way it is held, but I may be wrong.
In fact he was even using both hands.
Sideways? Since I do not own a TV and have not Seen a Movie in sometime, this must be a new "GeeWhiz" Fad.
Now I DO test my Firearms and Myself , as I was taught to do by persons qualified to instruct, and had been shot at, shot back and killed enemies and all.
Firearms and Me tested by shooting with both hands, both hands strong, both hands weak, strong hand only, weak hand only, laying on back and having to shoot in front, to both sides, and back over my head and thru all this the gun is shot with port up, port down, upside down and just about any angle you can think of.
One may find themselves on the ground, shot, cut and having to defend in all sorts of postitions, and the gun had better feed, extract in all these positions too.
TVs are just something to take up room, and have to bedusted and vacuumed under and around anyway...
Oh I have to give the thug credit that was trying to shoot me. He at least knew to rack the slide, clear a jam and try again...
...witnesses said he kept doing that...
...I was kinda busy doing my thing. Evading , surviving without engaging and some other stuff to see him actually keep doing this thing.
Maybe this thug and his friends do not have a TV, have a computer, or go to movies, Maybe they learned to shoot with instruction, on the street or in Cell College, or both.
Cemetaries are full of dead heros.
Cemetaries are full of folks that think Reality & The Streets are just like TV, Movies and Internet Scuttlebutt.
Cemetaries have plenty of openings still...
The downpayment is pretty steep I hear, and the daily payments to families and friends are painful for a long long time...
The origins go back to early 1970's when emerging Rap music and old Chinese Kung Fu movies were 'fused' in cheapo New York City movie theaters. Early Chinese Kung Fu movies included versions of Horse Westerns where Heros roamed the badlands of post-1911's China armed with swords and Broomhandle Mausers saving villagers in distress. The typical firing of a Broomhandle was "gangsta style" in order to: 1. allow a horizontal spread of bullets on full auto, and 2) to prevent brass ejection into one's head. (If anyone gets a chance, they're quite entertaining.)
Kung Fu movies had a great influence on emerging Rap musicians in NYC, emulation of the Gangsta hold slowly spread underground until it made it's way to Hollywood.
Those with time and inclination should look into original emergence of Rap music scene in NYC and influence of Kung Fu movies on the rappers.
Separate names with a comma.