Tiers of Quality

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Pukindog12, Mar 5, 2013.

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  1. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

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    Rather than just post an updated list, I'll post a list of what I would consider corrections to the original list posted:

    CZ goes down to tier 2

    Browning gets combined with FN Herstal in tier 1

    Colt and Kimber go up to tier 1

    Bersa, Stoeger, Makarov, Canik, Girsan go down to tier 3

    Taurus, Kel-tec, and Rock Island go up to tier 3
     
  2. Kiln

    Kiln Member

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    Yeah CZ pistols are used for competitions pretty frequently. Not as often as I see Glocks but still.
     
  3. verdun59

    verdun59 Member

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    Gee after years of reading here I thought it went like this:

    Tier 1 thru infinity - any 1911.

    Tier that's left - any Glock
     
  4. mrvco

    mrvco Member

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    Based on my experience, albeit limited, with IDPA, IPSC, etc., the gents with the high-dollar 1911's seem to have the most reliability issues. Obviously there are a lot of things you can do to make a quality gun unreliable (namely not cleaning and properly lubricating it), but I did find it surprising.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
  5. el Godfather

    el Godfather Member

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    To me the top gun would if it has Glock reliability, 10mm or .460 Rowland, 1911 slim profile, very light weight, but not plastic. May be titanium like alloy. H&K like controls. Two sets of barrels one match and other threaded. Wilson like finish. Adjustable night sights. 10 shot min cap with couple of extended mags of 15 and 20 shot cap. Accuracy at 50 yards and durability like mk23. Skeleton hammer and very light SA and DoA trigger. Ambi controls. Grip angle like even improved Sig E2. CZ auto like select fire lever that may be optional to remove. Snag free rail.

    If this gun exists- everything else is second tier or stuff I would care not to have. I would pay $10,000 for this gun.
     
  6. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Guns were meant to send bullets down range, period. If a gun cannot do that reliably with consistent accuracy, that's like having a brand new car that won't start or dies on occasion at railroad tracks. :eek:

    For me over the years, my tiers of quality "evolved" to:

    Tier 1 - Something I would grab without hesitation to defend my life and my family's lives with which means pistols that will go "bang" without fail (instead of ALMOST bang), even when dirty after 5000+ rounds of extensive testing and consistently produce acceptable level of accuracy.

    For me, accuracy is everything and holes on target speak volumes. It does not matter what name is on the slide or how much a pistol costs if it cannot reliably produce those holes on targets! ;) It MUST FIRE reliably and PRODUCE consistent shot groups as misfires and missed shots will not save my life or my family's lives. Ask many regional/local USPSA shooters who are consistently at the top 10% what pistols they rely on for HD/SD. Most pistols we drool over often stay in the safe but some select few makes/models get the nightstand/inside the hip holster duty. ;)

    In many ways, I agree with Hilton Yam's selection criteria for "Duty Use" but my CCW criteria must also perform almost as well as service size versions at 7-15 yards (Glock 23/27-Taurus MP PT145 vs Sig R1911-M&P40/45-Glock 22).
    Tier 2 - Anything that cannot achieve what Tier 1 pistols can do shot after shot - day after day - regardless who the shooter is who lives in my house (hey, they are my backups!).

    My Sig 1911 railed TacPac and a friend's RIA Tactical have well over 5000+ rounds of various factory and reloads shot through them without failures or parts breakage and STILL maintain consistent accuracy. Many of our friends and other shooters who bought "their" dream guns express frustration when they don't perform as well or experience FTF/FTE. When we let them shoot our pistols, they are often surprised at the consistent shot groups they are able to achieve and especially at RIA's price.


    < grabbing another bag of popcorn and sitting down >
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
  7. Ankeny

    Ankeny Member

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    I have observed plenty of mid-range 1911s puke in the hands of middle of the road shooters. But the high dollar 1911s in the hands of the hot rock championship shooters are some of the most reliable pistols on the planet. Just one malfunction is enough to cost a shooter a trip to the winner's podium...
     
  8. primalmu

    primalmu Member

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    Having owned Glock, Springfield, and CZ, I would put them all in 1st tier for commercially mass produced guns. I also own a Star, and despite the fact that everyone loves to hate them, I find it to be an excellently machined pistol that matches the accuracy of my CZ75BD. As far as build quality, it is right up there with the CZ, though I might bump it down for reliability ONLY due to lack of parts availability.
     
  9. NYGlock

    NYGlock Member

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    You have not defined "quality", so you should not expect consensus.
     
  10. nwilliams

    nwilliams Member

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    Quality is all a matter of personal opinion for the most part.

    I would agree that there are companies that make poor quality guns but to rank Glock above Sig or HK above Glock or Ruger above Sig, it's all a matter of one's personal opinion. On top of that how many people out there have owned enough guns from all the different companies to say from personal experience gun company a is better than gun company b.

    Also keep in mind that most companies make many different models of guns and some models are better quality than other, again it would be subject to one's personal opinion.
     
  11. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Bingo
     
  12. PabloJ

    PabloJ member

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    Seeing top quality gun made in limited numbers near bottom of tier 2 is actually insulting.
     
  13. Morgo

    Morgo Member

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    Its not something you can group based on just the brand. Its the individual models that should be grouped.

    For example I would not put a Beretta 92fs and a Beretta 92fs Steel I in the same class or a Sig p210 and a Sig P250
     
  14. ponchsox

    ponchsox Member

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    I take it OP is a Glock hater.
     
  15. OilyPablo

    OilyPablo Member

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    Odd. The only semiautomatic that I own that has NEVER jammed is not on this list.

    Saiga. 7.62x39 rifle. Converted to an "AK" style. 1000's of nasty dirty hot rounds and smoking hot barrel with no stoppages. Not one ever. Quality? Not by some people's defining.
     
  16. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

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    Out of FIVE tiers of quality he put them one down from the top so he "hates" them?

    I have a Glock. I like my Glock, but realistically there are better guns out there if you're willing to pay for it and there are guns that are just as good that cost less. Regardless of if you're rating on overall quality or "value for the dollar" I don't see Glock coming out on top. Respectably high on the list sure, but not on top.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2013
  17. PabloJ

    PabloJ member

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    Anything with plastic frame should go to tier 3.
     
  18. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    H&K pistols have polymer frames and many owners would consider them tier 1 ... :uhoh:
     
  19. PabloJ

    PabloJ member

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    My first handgun was H&K MK23 .45. I would gladly throw that into tier 3 right above Glock and XD. I would put P7 along with FN HP and Colt 1911 into tier 2.
     
  20. PabloJ

    PabloJ member

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    Tier 1 is reserved for: Korth, Cabot Smith, Les Baer,......
     
  21. returningfire

    returningfire Member

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    Did Para- Ordinance not even make the cut?
     
  22. Teachu2

    Teachu2 Member

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    Tier 1 - any gun I'd choose from the entire assortment to defend my life with in stock form - load and go.

    Tier 2 - any gun I enjoy shooting but know I will possibly have to work on to achieve 100% reliability.

    Tier 3 - guns that just aren't worth the effort.
     
  23. Ankeny

    Ankeny Member

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    Yeah, like the STI Grandmaster, or better yet, the Wilson Combat Spec Ops 9. Just plastic junk. :banghead:
     
  24. Rembrandt

    Rembrandt Member

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    Boberg and Rohrbaugh not on the top tier?......have to shake my head. Both are right up there with Wilson Combat.
     
  25. Sauer Grapes

    Sauer Grapes Member

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    OMG, I have to sell all my guns! They're all crap!! ;)
     
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