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Tightening groups

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by smitty03, Oct 17, 2005.

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  1. smitty03

    smitty03 Member

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    I've solved the COL issue and was wondering how to tighten groups from here? I could play the guessing game and start shooting different powders/loads; but the there a more methodic way to say time and money? ex. Does more powder give increased velocity, thus consistancy? I've got Nosler 55gr ballistic tips at .36" (Not counting the occasional flyer :cuss: )
    But I can't seem to get the Nosler Partition under .90"...
     
  2. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    smitty03 Quote – “Does more powder give increased velocity, thus consistancy?”
    More powder should give you more velocity (if your not at MAX loads for your rifle).
    I’m not sure what you mean by consistency. If you mean tighter groups then the answer is not necessarily.

    Quote - “I could play the guessing game and start shooting different powders/loads; but the there a more methodic way to say time and money?”

    I’m sure someone on here could recommend a powder for you if they know the type of rifle you have, the barrel length, the twist rate and caliber.

    Trying different powders and loads to see what shoots best in your rifle is part of the fun of reloading.

    Welcome to THR and good shooting.

    Also some bullets will shoot better than others in your rifle.
     
  3. Chawbaccer

    Chawbaccer Member

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    I start with the powder. I take the max load in the book and then load down,--ten -fifteen percent, load five rounds and then increase the powder a few grains until I have a set of loadings. go to the range and shoot five round groups, find what most accurate was, go home and load some more, bracketing my most accurate, Then I start in on over all length, then the primers, different bullets, start over with a new powder------ it goes on and on looking for the elusive one hole group.
     
  4. P0832177

    P0832177 member

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  5. smitty03

    smitty03 Member

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    Rifle is Coyote M70 (223WSSM)

    Any recommendations on loads? (24" barrel)... Would it be best to use Magnum primers?
     
  6. Chawbaccer

    Chawbaccer Member

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    My books are old, non of the new magnums in them. Magnum primers can raise the pressure quite a bit so unless your book calls for them I would be carefull using them.
     
  7. Shear_stress

    Shear_stress Member

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    Smitty--

    What reloading manual(s) are you using? They probably have a few different options for your load.
     
  8. smitty03

    smitty03 Member

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    I can feel the flames coming...

    The Speer manual that came w/my RCBS kit didn't have wssm info. So I've gather bits and pieces from IMR, Hodgdon, Winchester, etc. I've stayed within the recommended loads that Hodgdon and IMR have stated...
    I really should get a manual for this huh?
     
  9. Shear_stress

    Shear_stress Member

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    Probably, yeah. And by "probably", I mean "absolutely". I've found enough ways to screw this up even while following the instructions.
     
  10. ~z

    ~z Member

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    Yes, By all means get some more books, but powder manufactures onfo is good too. As far as the guessing game goes...Do you know another reloader with a buncha different powders? If so, take a few of your cases (and maybe a few good beers to say thanks) and start filling cases with near max loads of applicable powders (see comment above about get more books). IN MY EXPERIENCE a powder that will fill 85-90% of the case will shoot well. This will give you an idea of what powders to buy. This should save you a few $ as buying a "useless" powder will force you to buy a gun to fit that powder. From there, just work em up as you normally would. If you dont have a reloading buddy, I'm sure a post here as to the case fill of X powder in X case and X cal. will get you some answers. Good luck.
    ~z
     
  11. Ol` Joe

    Ol` Joe Member

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    Quote, "I've got Nosler 55gr ballistic tips at .36" (Not counting the occasional flyer )
    But I can't seem to get the Nosler Partition under .90"..."

    If I was getting sub .5" groups from a factory rifle I`d concider it about as good as it is going to get. The fact it won`t shoot the Partition as well as the BT is likely just the preferance of the rifle and you`ll probably never get them to shoot as well. I`ve had rifles that shot one bullet/load very well and scattered everything else. That said I`d expect the Partition to shoot a bit better, just because.
    You are seating the Partition to the same depth from the lands and not the same OAL as the BT aren`t you?
    The OAL your rifle likes will be one that has the ogive of the bullet a set distance from the leade. Every bullet has its own geometry and just because the the lenght from case base to the tip is the same doen`t mean the distance from the bullet bearing surface to lands is. Get a "comparator tool". Stony Point & Sinclair both make good ones and use it when setting the seater for various bullets. The tool will save lots of time and frustration.
     
  12. bogie

    bogie Member

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    If your bullet won't hold a tight group, you ain't gonna see it on paper. The Partition is a hunting bullet, as opposed to a varmint bullet or target bullet (such as Bart's), and you're likely going to see more deviation. Also, what weight is that partition? Could be that it's too long, and not adequately stabilized. What twist rate is your rifle?

    Start at the low end. Load to max magazine length, or 0.003 from jam if single-shot. Shoot three shots at 200 yards with wind indicators, and off sandbags (don't clamp the dang thing to the bench - that ain't gonna work). Go up a half grain, shoot three more shots, and repeat until you see your groups tighten. That's a node. You want nodes. Keep going, making notes of the load nodes. Hopefully you have a fast one. If you don't, load for the fastest.
     
  13. ~z

    ~z Member

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    Pretty much 1+ on bogies post except I go +1. That is to say shoot a 4 shot group and count your best 3. Things happen, flyers occour.
    ~z
     
  14. bogie

    bogie Member

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    Three shots is adequate to see if a rifle/load shoots. Five shots tells you if the nut behind the buttplate is loose.

    Shoot three shots, and don't allow for fliers. Be honest with yourself, and take your time. There's too much temptation to say "Oh, man, those two went through the same hole! I musta twitched on that third that's an inch away!" If you think that YOU goofed, reshoot.
     
  15. ~z

    ~z Member

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    I musta twitched on that third that's an inch away!" If you think that YOU goofed, reshoot.

    My point is if you load three and DO twitch, you have no bullet to reshoot with. Load 4 and dont have the oops twice in the same string.
    ~z
     
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