Tips on teaching a new shooter: a dilemna

[No_Brakes23]

I am not sure if this should go in General, Strategies, or Auto Handguns. I tried to find a thread that dealt with this, but couldn't.

I am taking a friend and a couple females shooting in a few days. My buddy has been a couple times, the gals haven't shot before. The last time I tried to teach someone to shoot, I ran into a problem.

#1 I go through the four rules.
#2 I show how to handle the weapons.
#3 Oops, one is a SIG P232, and another is a S&W model 28. No external safety. How does that reinforce rule #4? How can I convey these rules as gospel truth and then turn around and say, "But, that doesn't apply to this"?

Also, does anyone have any suggestions on instructing new shooters? I will have the SIG and a 1911 this time. (plus anything at the range they wanna rent.)

This is what I have so far:

The four safety rules, (With the DA/revolver caveat, I guess.)
Breath control,
Sight picture/sight alignment,
A basic idea of Iso vs Weaver, (The stances, not my preference, and real basic, I am no positional expert.)

Anything I am forgetting?

 

[itgoesboom]

The Four Rules:

1. All firearms are always loaded.
2. Always keep a firearm pointed in a safe direction.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
4. Always be sure of your target and know what is behind it.


How does the firearm having a external safety or not relate to rules 3 & 4?

I.G.B.

 

[Bobarino]

teach them to use the manual safeties but remind them not to rely on them. the safety on each weapons is located in between the shooter's ears. make sure they understand that first.

for the new shooters, you might be best off to rent some .22's for them to get aquainted with first. they are less likely to develop a flinch with something a little smaller at first. plus .22's are not loud, intimidating or expensive to feed.

for their first time out, forget the iso vs. weaver stuff and just let them concentrate on hitting the target and having fun. i'd start with safety, then sight picture, and maybe breathing if they having a hard time hitting the target. for first time shooters it should be safety first, fun second and fun third. save the more technical stuff for later if they become more seriously interested in shooting.

Bobby

 

[Moondoggie]

I'd recommend a .22 revo also....and have them dry-fire it a few times for practice. This will help with trigger control without having to worry about a flinch. Don't forget ear/eye protection.

 

[GRB]

The FOUR rules - are you kidding - you are missing at least one very important one, if not a few if you only have 4 gun safety rules.

 

[No_Brakes23]

itgoesboom said...
How does the firearm having a external safety or not relate to rules 3 & 4?

Ah, there are at least three sets of the four rules, I see.

This is what I learned from the Corps:

1) Treat every weapon as if it is loaded.
2) Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to kill.
3) Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you intend to fire.
4) Keep the weapon on safe until you are ready to fire.

Jeff Cooper's are essentally the same, but a little more wordy, and #3 and #4 are switched.

In yours, #2 and #4 are essentially the same thing, and the safety one is eliminated entirely. Interesting.

Bobarino said......forget the iso vs. weaver stuff...for first time shooters it should be safety first, fun second...

Well, I need to show them how to stand if they ask. Do you suggest saying something along the lines of "like this" while demonstrating it, rather than saying "This is an Isoceles, blah blah blah..."?

Moondoggie said...I'd recommend a .22 revo also...

But I don't have one. If we can rent one, that is one thing, but I would feel a little awkward giving instruction on a weapon I am not familiar with. Still, there is no doubt that .22LR is far preferable to learn on. Some people say the little SIG is more of a PITA to shoot than the .45 because the 1911 soaks up so much more than the little .380.

Moondoggie said......have them dry-fire it a few times for practice...

That's a damn good idea, and I just bought snap caps for the .380 and .45. And we are going to an indoor range, so the ears & eyes is a given.

Glenn Bartley said...The FOUR rules - are you kidding - you are missing at least one very important one, if not a few if you only have 4 gun safety rules.

I think the idea is to give the pupil a memetic device, if you will. They are absorbing a lot as it is. What would you reccommend I tell them?

Thanks so far for all the input, folks. Keep it coming.

 

[Bobarino]

that sounds good. or just let them form a stance that is comfortable for them. remember, the idea this time around is to just get them shooting and put a grin on their face. the stance doesn't have to be pretty, just functional for now. i'd be more concerned about proper grip with a semi-auto than stance. make sure they don't wrap their thumbs around the backstrap, push with the shooting hand, pull with the non-shooting hand, that kind of thing. of course the less technical stuff you feed to them, the more they can focus on safety and fun this time. good luck! i hope you get a couple new shooting buddies. or budettes as it were.

Bobby

 

[Bill2k1]

For first trip I would just do safety and let them have fun shooting, if they need help hitting the target, get into the more advanced basic stuff. Shooting should be fun, let them have safe fun their first time out. If they want to come back and shoot better, you can be sure they will call and ask you to take them again.

 

[itgoesboom]

No brakes,

Yeah, there are different sets of rules. I think the reason why your #4 is left off from Cooper's rules that I posted above is that relying on a mechanical safety is probably not a good habit to be in. It leaves the shooter with a false sense of safety, and we all know that safetys can fail.

The FOUR rules - are you kidding - you are missing at least one very important one, if not a few if you only have 4 gun safety rules.

Glen,

No, we are not kidding. 4 safety rules. Those 4 rules will keep you alive.

You may add additional rules as you see fit, but those are the most commonly seen rules. In fact, they are part of the THR library as well.

Click HERE

The NRA shortens it to 3 rules. See HERE

Now, as mentioned in previous threads about the rules, there are times where the rules don't fully apply. Some training schools will modify the rules. But for general use, these are the rules.

Rule #1 Treat all guns as if they are loaded. How many times have we heard the saying "but I didn't think it was loaded!!".

Rule #2 Always keep a firearm pointed in a safe direction. Some people say this differently, ie, don't point it at anything you aren't willing to destroy/kill/etc. Basically though, the initial point works well. Keep that muzzle facing a safe direction. This is important....if you neglect all other rules, this one will save your butt.

Rule #3Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. There are very few "accidental discharges", but there are many "negligent discharges". Keep your finger off the trigger, and the gun won't go bang.

Rule #4 Know your target and what is beyond it. This is almost interchangeable with #2, but I think this is really there to encourage you to look beyond your target or what you think is a safe backstop, and see if a shot can be a danger to anything/anyone downrange.

Now, there are other good rules out there. Listen to the RO, don't shoot when someone is downrange, etc.

But the 4 rules are the foundation of good firearm safety, not the end all / be all.

I.G.B.

 

[GRB]

Ok, a bit more time now, so an answer more fitting to the original question.
Taking it for granted that keeping a safety on, until ready to fire, is one of the fundamental rules of gun safety I can say the following: there is no dilemma even if a gun does not have an external safety. In that event any internal safeties and the safe gun handling of the person touching the firearm is what keeps it on safe.

Now for a more important part of the discussion. The students you are teaching about firearms and about how to shoot NEED TO ABSORB CERTAIN INFORMATION BEFORE EVER TOUCHING A GUN OR SHOOTING IT.

You said this:

I think the idea is to give the pupil a memetic device, if you will. They are absorbing a lot as it is. What would you reccommend I tell them?

To which I will say this: if the potential shooters are not fully familiar with all of the rules of gun safety, they should not be picking up a gin at all. If you are bringing someone to the range to shoot and, you have not yet taught them all of the rules of gun safety making certain that they understand them all, then you are making a big time hurry up mistake that could cost a life. There should be absolutely no range time without first having assured that each of the people about to shoot are familiar with those rules.

Rules I would insist upon would be as follows (there are some others too but these are mandatory):

1) Alcohol, illicit drugs, many prescription and, many over the counter drugs do not mix with gunpowder. Make sure to impress upon your students (which is exactly what they will be) that they must be in full control of their mental and physical capabilities while handling firearms. It is a shame people do not always place this as rule number one.

2) Treat every firearm as if it were loaded.

Side note on #1

a) You will need to explain that if someone picks one up, has one handed to them, to keep it pointed in a safe direction, then while keeping finger off of the trigger to check it to see if it is loaded before doing anything else with it. If they do not know how to check a particular gun, then have someone else do it and show them or, just do not touch it.

B) You need to show, then teach with hands on, someone how to check each gun they are about to fire - before they fire.

3) Whenever you handle a firearm make sure it is pointed in a safe direction (yes this actually includes when you are about to justifiably and legally shoot someone - think about that - a dilemma if ever there was one).

a) This will require some explanation as what some people think is a safe direction is asking for trouble. The safety of any direction in which a firearm is pointed depends on whatever scenario you are in at the time.

4) Keep your finger off of the trigger before you intend to fire.

a) This one really has to be hammered into their heads and yes there are exceptions to this rule such as when preparing to disassemble certain pistols and rifles. So you also have to tell them if they ever need to put the finger on the trigger for any reason other than shooting, they absolutely have to go to rules number 2 and 3.

5) Know your firearm and, know how to use it, before attempting to use it AND make certain it is in proper operating order before using it. (This always holds true except in emergency situations.) Also maintain your firearm in proper working order.


6) Make absolutely certain to use only the correct ammunition in your firearm. (Ammunition is varied, yet many are so similar they can fit into various guns; so I make this a separate point and do not blanket it in under 5.)


7) Use proper eye and ear protection except in an emergency. Make sure all others in the area are also wearing proper eye and ear protection if you are shooting for recreation.

8) Know you target, and be aware of what is beyond your target. Also be aware of anyone else in the area while shooting.

9) OBEY ALL COMMANDS BY RANGE PERSONNELS. OBEY A CEASE FIRE COMMAND FROM ANYONE AT THE RANGE.

a) This last one is for old timers as well as new people. It needs to be drummed into new shooters as do all of the above rules. As a matter of fact it is a good idea to remind old timers of the rules now and then.

Every time you teach a new shooter, you should teach them these rules. This should take at least 45 minutes to an hour before any gun handling. Then comes some teaching about various types of firearms (typed by action and longarm versus handgun). Then some gun handling to see how they are handling the firearms and to give them some hands on info, feel and confidence about the gun(s) they will be firing. You should teach them hands on, about the particular gun(s) they will be shooting, before they shoot. Again, look to see how they handle the gun, how well they took in the gun safety lecture you just gave them and so on. look for accidents waiting to happen and correct them, also praise good habits in the making.

Now go out onto the range. Explain the layout to them. Explain range etiquette to them. Explain the regular range commands, explain the firing line and other range terms. Explain CEASAE FIRE and proper actions to take if this command is given. Explain what to do if they have a problem with a gun. For example they have a jam. Tell them to keep the gun pointed downrange (hopefully you explained terminology to them already), finger off of the trigger, then raise the off hand - just like a kid in school. Tell them never to turn around while on a range if there is a problem or if they need to ask a question, again remind them to raise their hands.

Just about ready to shoot. Keep in mind, you should not allow more than three of them (two is much more preferable and one is best) to shoot at one time per each instructor watching over them (each shooter on range positions set up right next to one another). In your case, I believe you said, you will be there with a fairly new shooter and two completely green potential shooters. You should have them standby and show them a few shots you take. Then have each one shoot a few shots, one person at a time while the others remain behind the firing line, and well behind you the instructor, as they watch. A few rounds each, maybe 5, then onto the next shooter. Then do this again another time or two for each of them. Then you will have the feel for them and they should have the feel for the instructor, rules, the guns and firing them. Then you can have all three shoot while you instruct from behind them. You should never, I SAID NEVER, shoot at the same time a brand new to fairly new shooter is shooting and you are the one instructing said shooter.

Teaching firearms safety and shooting to others is a big responsibility. Do it right, so they get it right.

These are along the lines of what I would do, what I have done, and how I learned to shoot from others who have taught me.

Best regards,
Glenn B

 

[The Rabbi]

No Brakes,
You could sit there and spout off a dozen or more rules and then what? You have impressed them with how much you know--BFD. The goal of instruction like that is to teach people the knowledge and skills necessary to operate a firearm safely. You are also there to make it an enjoyable experience. If you sound like Lee Ermey on the firing line you can kiss any instruction good bye.
Yes, the basics are the four rules (which the NRA also has btw) that were outlined.
Do you have a .22 anything? Use that. The lack of recoil lets shooters concentrate on sight picture and target rather than on controlling recoil. The SIG 230 is a terrific gun. I bought one for my wife. She doesnt shoot it well because of the recoil (lightweight) and the sights or ergonomics dont agree with her. She did like the HK P7. Not everyone can shoot revolvers well either. The double action pull is tough to manage.
My advice, emphasize the safe pointing of the gun above all else. Then the keeping the finger out of the trigger well. Make sure they know how the gun functions. teach one stance but mention there are others. Keep it free from jargon. Keep close tabs, load them up and have a blast.

the Rabbi
Certified NRA Instructor.

 

[MikeIsaj]

Lot's of good advice, here's mine.

Safety first, whichever set of the four rules you use will do fine. Just make sure they understand the importance of not shooting you.

Rent a .22 if you don't have one. You want the first experience to be fun. A .45 is no fun to any beginner.

Back up the safety lecture with application. No beginner handles a weapon, unsupervised so limit the number of weapons to the number of experienced shooters. Develop good habits from the start.

Stance is the foundation. A solid stance will result in better accuracy. Keep it simple. Face target, feet shoulder width apart. You can get fancy later.

Remember this is their shooting day, not yours. Remember to bring enough targets so everyone gets a souvenier.

 

[No_Brakes23]

MikeIsaj said...
A .45 is no fun to any beginner.

Without exception every single shooter I have introduced to handguns loved the 1911, and most said it was their favorite, first time out. My wife preferred the .45 to her SIG and to the Ruger Mark II we rented.

However, I agree with your point that I need to own/rent a .22LR for their first time.

The Rabbi said...
She doesnt shoot it well because of the recoil (lightweight)...

All the shooters disliked the snap of the SIG. Not really the best learning firearm. I could think of worse, though.

The Rabbi said...You could sit there and spout off a dozen or more rules and then what? You have impressed them with how much you know--BFD.

I really want to avoid that. I try pretty hard not to come off as patronizing.

 

[itgoesboom]

I really want to avoid that. I try pretty hard not to come off as patronizing.

Thats probably best. Thats why it is best to stick to the 4 rules.

It is all well and good to have 10-12 rules, like another poster mentioned, but no-one is going to be able to remember those on demand while shooting for the first time.

Keep it simple, keep it safe, and they will do just fine.

One other thing that might help a new shooter, especially at an indoor range: Have them wear plugs and muff to further help them avoid the muzzle blast. That always seems to reduce the "percieved recoil", and helps prevent flinching.

I.G.B.

 

[dav]

Two things:

First, regarding stance, the ladies are going to lean back when they shoot. Don't let it bug you, and don't harp on them if they do that.

Second, I'm in San Diego, can I come play, too? (I have .22's!)

 

[Waitone]

Newbies will have their minds flooded with stuff they've never seen or heard before. At some point sensory overload will kick in. My suggestion is to keep it safe and fun and simple.

My practice with newbies is to spend the first hour away from the firing line in a shed where we can talk without plugs or muffs. 4 rules out of the box and then use a discussion of the four rules as a way to get a handgun into everyone's hand. Mechanics of manipulation of a firearm is complicated particularly when combined with popular media BS about killing machines, etc. During the hour you can intro proper grip (keep your weak hand thumb away from your right hand or bad things will happen). Your objective should be limited to safety and fun. Then after about an hour head for the firing line and let 'em throw lead downrange.

If they had a good time session two will be quickly scheduled. You can then fine tune. Just make the first experience safe and fun.

Keep us posted.

 

[Model520Fan]

There's a lot of good info above. I would like to add [? repeat?] that a lot of firearm safety is a certain set of good HABITS, not just knowledge, so a certain amount of practice is unfortunately necessary in order to get into the habit of pointing a gun in a safe direction all the time. Many years ago, when I had just two or three hours each to teach small groups of sailors to handle the 1911 safely, I found it necessary to spend an hour or so teaching them how the thing worked and what the safety rules were. before taking them to the range. Right from the beginning, I spent that time demonstrating and observing safe muzzle orientation. I let them know right from the beginning that I expected muzzle orientation to be just about good enough to keep an AD on the paper, and that I would immediately correct deviations from this. This way, when I corrected someone, he would not have to be embarrassed about an egregious safety violation, yet he would experience feedback as soon as his habit started to fail.

I had particularly good people who already were accustomed to obeying orders (I outranked them a paygrade or two). Therefore, I had one supervisor for every two or three shooters. Ordinarily, one on one is best. You should always know how you will have physical control of the weapon in your student's hand, particularly in the early stages, before you are quite sure that they have developed proper habits.

JM.02W

 

[Chut1st]

The first time to ever shoot any kind of firearm can be intimidating. My goals for the first session have always been (1) set a foundation for safety with the 4 Rules and (2) show the newbie how much fun shooting can be. After that, it's all technicalities. If you don't make it fun, you don't have to worry about the second trip.

Some of the details that I've found helpful:

Make sure the student has eye and ear protection as well as clothing that will protect them from hot brass, e.g., long-sleeved shirt, baseball cap.

Have the rules printed on an index card or at least a sheet of paper for them to read well before getting to the range.

The first target should be a BIG circle (12" or so), relatively close. I've found that about 5 yards is good. No numbered rings, just an easy target to get them used to the firearm without a lot of pressure. Then if you're at an outside range and can use them, some type of reactive target, plastic jugs of water, clay targets, tin cans, that will do something interesting when hit.

Yes, a .22LR is great for a first time but 9mm or .38 spl aren't bad. Depends on the individual. Your familiarity with the firearm is helpful but demonstrating the 4 Rules on a gun you don't know intimately can be a good demonstration for the newbie, since virtually any gun they pick up will be unfamiliar to them.

Most of all, have fun. The shooting sports have provided me immeasurable amounts of pleasure, satisfaction and reward and so many friendships that I can't imagine life without them. And sharing the sport with someone new to it is even more satisfying.

 

[HankB]

The good thing about the Four Rules is that seldom will breaking one of them cause injury or death . . . usually when you hear about a serious firearm "accident" it's really an act of negligence during which two or more of the rules were broken.

 

[GRB]

To The Rabbi,

You could sit there and spout off a dozen or more rules and then what? You have impressed them with how much you know--BFD.

The BFD is that they would have the proper idea of how to safely handle any firearm under any condition, and they would not what it takes to remain firearms safety conscious regarding each aspect of shooting from gun care to actually shooting. That goes beyond four simplistic rules. Too bad you don't see the need for teaching someone the right way but rather have to resort to saying BFD. Actually it is a BFD if you want it done right, and with guns it should always be done right. Many organizations, such as the NRA would tell you so.

Then again, since you brought up the NRA, why not show me where they say there are only 4 rules of firearms safety. I cannot find it. What I did find was a web page from the NRA with about a total of 12 rules they say you should always follow when shooting.

I learned essentially these same rules about 40 years ago at summer camp. Then I learned them again about 30 years ago at a hunter safety course. Then I learned them again about 26 years ago in the US Border Patrol Academy. Then learned them again about 22 years ago in The US Customs Patrol Academy. Then again about 19 years ago when I was in training to become a US Customs Special Agent. Then again about 14 years ago when I was qualified by the NRA as a firearms instructor for my job with Customs. Then again when the Customs Service sent me to their own FI school.Then again when I became a sub-machine gun instructor. Then again when I recertified as a firearms instructor for Customs which was just over 5 years ago. Then again about 2-3 years ago when I attended a hunter safety course with my son. Maybe something has changed in the past 2-3 years that required shortening the safety rules down to 4 from the dozen or so that have always been taught to me and anyone else with whom I have shot but; I doubt it.

Yes there are more than just 4 rules of gun safety. You need to go beyond the so called 4 fundamental rules in order to teach anyone gun safety so that they will actually have an excellent chance of remaining safe. If you are too irresponsible to do that, you should not be teaching anyone about gun safety because you are cutting corners. If you don't teach them about gun safety, or at least check to see if they are knowledgeable about it, then you should never teach them anything about how to handle or fire a gun. To do otherwise would simply be irresponsible.

By the way, you mentioned the NRA and said they use the 4 safety rules, implying they don't use more than that. Youya re absolutely incorrect. As a matter of fact, let me give you a link to the NRA gun safety rules. Anyone could bring this up for a new shooter to read, should not take al of 5 minutes or maybe 10 minutes for a really slow reader. These are important things to impress on any shooter, anyone who does not want to bother should not bother teaching new shooters. Here is the link: NRA Gun Safety Rules

Of course, if that is too much work for you, you could always let them read this condensed version at: Firearms & Hunter Safety I have seen lots of people at ranges taught by the experts of the 4 rles. Those are always the shooters to watch out for because they are the ones who did not learn right in the first place. Sad thing is it would take a 1/2 to hour to teach them all the necessary rules and maybe another to check to see if they sank in. A true professional would teach them all of these rules - and anyone can do it in the same amount of time. The thing is you would impress upon them the right way to do something. I guess the right way to do it in your mind is to cut corners, that is not the right way as I see it. Cutting corners will quite possibly lead to other corners being cut by that same shooter somewhere down, and those rules may go to 3 to 2 to 1 to none in no time. Maybe you will wind up getting shot by one of the people who decided that it was better to have less rules. I hope to prevent such, through my best ability, from ever happening so I teach em the longer version of the gun safety rules. having safe shooters out there is about the BFD I can think of when it comes to gun ownership, shooting sports, defemsive shooting and so on. It just makes good sense.

Since you are an NRA certified instructor, I would have thought the NRA would have taught you that, but maybe their teaching methods have been streamlined as of late. Though I have to say, they sure taught the longer version of the safety rules to me and, they still print it on their web site and in brochures. Go figure....

Best regards,
Glenn Bartley

 

[TheEgg]

To which I will say this: if the potential shooters are not fully familiar with all of the rules of gun safety, they should not be picking up a gin at all.

But tonic is fine!

 

[Waitone]

Safety first and foremost and always.

That's the ideal. If you dump all your safety cookies in the lobby you run the risk of scaring the stuffin's out of a potential newbie. If the element of fun ain't there, no sense going any further. If the element of fun exists, then the real safety training can take place.

 

[Control Group]

The BFD is that they would have the proper idea of how to safely handle any firearm under any condition, and they would not what it takes to remain firearms safety conscious regarding each aspect of shooting from gun care to actually shooting

This is not the goal. They don't need to know how to safely handle any firearm under any condition, they need to know how to handle the firearms presented to them, and handle them on the range. Trying to overwhelm them with more rules than they can easily remember and that they don't need will only discourage them from going to the range. They don't need to think about what the definition of "safe" is on a range as opposed to in a life-or-death situation. For now, "safe" is "pointed downrange or at the floor."

Give them the four rules - which are sufficient to keep themselves and everyone else safe if followed - then get them shooting. They will not present a threat to anyone while supervised at the range if they don't know the difference between 9x19 and 9x18 ammunition. Once they know they want to do more of it, then you can get into the rules necessary for you to own, maintain, and operate a gun. Which rules do certainly number more than four.

The point is, the four rules are absolute. No one who does not know them and follow them should be handling a gun, period. They are sufficient to keep everyone safe in a supervised environment, and they're what should be focused on. It's what the NRA refers to as "the fundamental NRA rules for safe gun handling" (though they only list three rules, I, personally, use essentially Jeff Cooper's four rules as the fundamentals of gun safety). You want him to prepare them right away for owning and using a gun unsupervised. This is a good goal, but not necessary for their first, supervised, range session.

This is in much the same fashion that you don't learn how to change your oil, fill your tank with gas, change a tire, etc. before getting behind the wheel with an instructor.

 

[The Rabbi]

Then again, since you brought up the NRA, why not show me where they say there are only 4 rules of firearms safety

No one said there are only 4 rules. NRA "Basics of Pistol Shooting" Chapter 3 P.21 gives just 3 fundamental rules: safe direction, finger off trigger, and gun unloaded.

But for your sake, Glenn Bartley, I think we need to add a few. Make sure your students practice these and can recite them in their sleep:

1) Never mistake a pistol for a rectal thermometer
2) Always be sure not to pull your gun when stopped by a police officer
3) When you have a misfire, do not look down the barrel and pull the trigger again to determine the source of malfunction
4) Do not beat live ammunition with a hammer to test it
5) Do not force any magazine into the gun with the bullets pointed towards you
6) Never shoot with someone fond of saying "hey getta load of this!"
7) When reloading, do not fill the case up all the way
8) Never pull the trigger with your thumb
9) Do not put your hand in front of the barrel to "feel the breeze"
and most important,
10) Do not get instruction from humorless range Nazis intent on showing their knowledge.

 

[No_Brakes23]

More interesting points.

Chut1st said...
as well as clothing that will protect them from hot brass, e.g., long-sleeved shirt,

Damn, I never even though of that. Good point.

About the four rules, they sure are aren't perfect in any form, Cooper or DOD, but they have value as a mnemonic aid. Perhaps I don't know how to use the site's search feature, I am not sure how I missed this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70567

But there are good points there.

I think that since the 4 rules are not quite canon, I will not introduce them as such. I am definitely not going to cover eye/ear protection, as I said before that is range mandatory, and you get ears/eyes when you go in. Likewise, the "no drunk shooting" rule is totally a non-issue with these people. Certainly more important to remember muzzle awareness than to "remember" not to get wasted before going to the range. You either are or you aren't, no vigilence required. It should be a no-brainer, and it is simply not worth commiting to memory. This is suburbanites going to the indoor range, not bubba and the boys downing PBRs inbetween clays.

I plan to stress safe operation, muzzle/target awareness, and relaxation, (Which is not the same as complacence.) This is suburbanites going to the indor range, not bubba and the boys downing PBRs inbetween clays.

Someone mentioned not letting them fire unsupervised, or fire while they fire, and I had taken that as a given, but in reality, I can see where some might not. I very rarely shoot with another person simultaneosly, usually we coach or spot for each other on one lane, (That goes for just about every range, indoor-1000 yard. Especially with a new shooter, I obviously need to be there to ensure they don't do anything wrong, and to help them as much as I can.

Thanks again and keep it coming...