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Titegroup Reloading NG Poisoning?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by paladinj, Aug 26, 2016.

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  1. pdjms1

    pdjms1 Member

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    I recently had an issue with not tightening my powder measure, filled with titegroup, to the die. When the first round hit the powder funnel it pushed it up and tipped it off the die and consequently dumped a fair amount of powder all over me and my garage floor. I did have a slight irritation to my skin likely because i was sweating so it easily adhered to my skin but even with this rather extreme exposure I didn't suffer any of the effects you felt.

    I am not a doc but if I were in your position I would probably reload again to test the waters and under normal circumstances and if I didn't feel the effects I would keep reloading. If I did feel any effects I would immediately see a doctor and research different powders not containing NG. I have used some VV in the past as another poster suggested and have really liked it, it is just darn expensive. Again, I'm not an expert/doc so this is just my opinion but I would say with those symptoms you might want to see a doc either way just to be safe.
     
  2. paladinj

    paladinj Member

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    You know I spent many hours with it the first time cycling through my Lee powder thrower a thousand times probably, how else is it possible to get it to throw between 3.28 and 3.34 grains every time for hundreds of times. Then some got on my skin, some spilled, although not as much as last night but I had no reaction at all. I will have an idea after I thoroughly clean the spill. Then I may try again.
     
  3. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    :what: Bummer! I can just walk out my back door ... or front door ... or side door ... and let rip.

    In what state do you live?
     
  4. paladinj

    paladinj Member

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    People's Republic of Canada.

    I'm feeling mostly better now. I'll go and vacuum.

    Not to be indecent, but it seems that the final stage of NG poisoning or allergy is significant dilation of the blood vessels leading to the pelvic area resulting in delayed morning wood with interest, maybe NG is the secret ingredient in Viagra? :neener:
     
  5. paladinj

    paladinj Member

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    The label to titegroup could read: WARNING: Absorption of Nitroglycerin contained herein can lead to headaches, nausea, vertigo, dizziness and explosives reactions with the opposite sex.
     
  6. lpsharp88

    lpsharp88 Member

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    I've never had that problem, and I use lots of TiteGroup. One thing, you mentioned that your setup is in your bedroom. Maybe move it out of there if at all possible. If you're sensitive, no need to breathe it in constantly for the amount of time that you sleep or spend in there.
     
  7. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    TG is one powder 1 powder that I do not recommend specially with new reloaders. Very narrow band load range and sensitive to small volume changes. Burns very hot and not good if you shooting exposed lead bases. If you have another powder you can try, do so.

    Sounds more like you reacted with the solvent used in the process of making the powder. Some powders are quite strong with odor, some not so.

    I would move the setup out of your BR to another location. Wear nitrile gloves, and eye protection in a well ventilated area. And limit your session to 1 hr and see what happens. If no reaction increase the time and move on. If a reaction I would try another powder. Hopefully you will not have to deck out is full HAZMAT suits with supplied air.
     
  8. paladinj

    paladinj Member

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    I went down to vacuum, the first thing to go was the nose and then right after the eyes. I was shocked to find so little powder remaining. More had spilled obviously, which I cleaned last night, but I would estimate that the total powder exposed was about 4 grains including little bits that fell into carpet. I heard little pops, maybe titegroup is that sensitive.

    Hopefully I can overcome this allergy, I find this so hard to believe, but what else could it be? I had deprimed 200rds with no symptoms. And cleaned as many rounds, it's not as though I haven't been exposed to loads of metal and grease doing everything from grinding Mosin extractors into spec to cold bluing to magazine body reforming.
     
  9. paladinj

    paladinj Member

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    I'm not worried about the charges because I measured each one to a resolution of .02 gr with max deviation of .06gr smallest to greatest. Also I am not near max which is 3.6, I'm at 3.3.
     
  10. mdi

    mdi Member

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    From your reactions, I'd say forget reloading. You seem to be hypersensitive to something that you used that night, but in my experience nothing you handled, in the quantities you handled would have any effect on a "normal" person. Did you use any chemicals to clean up? Do you have a carbon dioxide sensor/alarm? Your symptoms sound a bit like carbon dioxide poisoning. Nitroglycerin poisoning is a real thing, but I have never heard/read of a reloader experiencing that with the limited exposure to gun powders used in the process.
     
  11. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    As somebody said, if you are allergic to nitroglycerine, try the appropriate Vihtavuori powder which is single base nitrocellulose. Identifying other single base pistol powder is an exercise left to the student. If you are reacting to that or one of the common deterrents, you may be out of luck.

    If you can do your loading elsewhere or peel that carpet up, I recommend loading over a smooth floor that can be swept and damp mopped. If you just must load in a carpeted room, get one of those vinyl office chair mats to work over for easy cleanup.


    I did not know Hodgdon had gotten distributorship of Vihtavuori powder. Along with Winchester, IMR, and own brand from several sources, they are really tying up the US handloading market. What is left besides Alliant? A Vectan comeback, some of the Spanish and Balkan powders that came in during the Panic, nothing huge.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2016
  12. paladinj

    paladinj Member

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    Carbon Dioxide is not really likely , I have slept in that room with closed windows and door many times, in fact I believe at least one was open a crack.

    It had to have been the times I came into contact with it in particular while wiping it down with wet TP. In the future I will wear gloves move it out of the BR and maybe buy a hand vacuum.
     
  13. Cheesemaker

    Cheesemaker Member

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    Hope you feel better.
    What scale are you using to measure 100ths of a grain?

    "....resolution of .02 gr with max deviation of .06gr smallest to greatest...."

    Also - does Titegroup meter that well that a Lee powder thrower throws that accurately? Typical powder throwers are good to within a couple of tenths- not hundredths.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2016
  14. paladinj

    paladinj Member

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    I can't do 100th only 50ths. I have never metered anything else, but it does not seem that titegroup meters well due to the flakey flat form and uneven size. I spent many hours and hundreds of cycles to tune the tightness of the lever just right and find the right volume. I am very close and variation of what comes out is always under 1/10th of a grain last I used it. . 04 too much or too little but usually it spits out 3.32 over and over which is what I'm looking for. It's dialed in so that if its not 3.32 its just under in which case I tap the powder thrower, a few grains come out and I'm at 3.32, 3.28 and 3.30 are also accepted by me.

    I feel that even still energy output will not be that close due to the inconsistent flakes. But since I'm nowhere near max or min I'm not worried. Furthermore it seems that due to the low powder volume seating depth is less critical because it would have to go far in to cause a compressed load.

    It's a digital scale I bought on Amazon, it had good reviews and was one of the cheap ones. I keep testing it and it is always consistent.

    Thank you for your wishes, I'm not sure if the residual feeling is due to sleeping half time and not moving much or showering or the allergy. I will go back to confront it, tidy some more and then shower.
     
  15. paladinj

    paladinj Member

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    My success with the Lee package deal powder thrower is probably quite exceptional because I know a lot of people throw it out for being terrible, I am no great talent however considering how it took me about 30 minutes to figure out how to put it together when it should really take 30 seconds

    At least in al the time I read up looking for the non existent assembly instructions I learned the usage instructions and tips haha
     
  16. weaselfire

    weaselfire Member

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    First, it's not any kind of poisoning. Second, schedule a checkup with a full blood panel with your doctor. You do have a medical issue. It could be life threatening. Your doctor is the ONLY one you should be looking for answers from, not the internet.

    Jeff

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
     
  17. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    N310, N320, N330, N340, & N350 are all single based powders with no NG.

    I have to agree with Slamfire.

     
  18. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Sounds to me like you got a virus. Check with a doctor.
     
  19. kcofohio
    • Contributing Member

    kcofohio Contributing Member

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    I agree with others. See a doc.

    My dad worked over 40 years at a dynamite plant. NG had the biggest effect on the guys there. Mainly headaches and blood pressure issues. I worked there for 1 summer. I don't ever remember hearing of guys talking about your other symptoms.

    ^^This^^

    http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/MSDS%20Files/Smokeless/Hodgdon/Spherical%20Powders/All%20Hodgdon%20Spherical%20Powders_02-11-14.pdf
     
  20. paladinj

    paladinj Member

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    From the MSDS:

    "Eye contact may cause irritation, itching, burning, redness and tearing. Skin contact may cause redness and pain. Ingestion may cause gastrointestinal irritation, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. High concentrations of dust may irritate throat and respiratory system and cause coughing. A drop in blood pressure, headache, cyanosis and mental confusion may result from nitroglycerin in the product."

    I doubt 99.99% of people using it to reload will ever experience these things butaybe I'm just sensitive. It sounds scary but this stuff is probably less harmful than many other substances we interact with daily.

    I will definitely get checked soon and keep cleaning.
     
  21. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    You didn't mention irregularity with your heartbeat or heart palpitations which usually accompanies nitroglycerine toxicity.

    The symptoms that you did mention could be caused by any number of things, some of them serious, so you should consult your doctor sooner rather than later.
     
  22. thomas15

    thomas15 Member

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    Just to be clear on one thing, CO2 (and H2O) is the product of a combustion reaction. The combustion reaction happens when you fire your gun, not when your handling smokeless powder while handloading ammo.

    If you are a brave and daring sort try handling a DB powder outside and see if you get the reaction. I would be more inclined to think that the issue is not NG rather something else. As another poster said NG (in a medical form) is used all the time by patients with angina.

    All of what I have had to say on this is of course my opinions, I'm not an organic chemist but I'm a (dumb) student of chemistry. Given the OPs nearly fanatical relationship with personal safety I personally see no problem with him using titegroup. I know I annoy people on this forum but if one were to go back to the 80s and 90s and read information on handloading for handguns the exact same negative thing about titegroup were said about Alliant Bullseye.

    I have concluded in a non-scientific way that given that handloading is almost a religion, there are those that simply have no faith in Hodgdon and throw all of their tithes and love offerings to Alliant or Western.

    Of course that is another debate for another day.......
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2016
  23. au_prospector

    au_prospector Member

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    Did you inhale it? Titegroup is so fine, it bugs me. Actually to me, your symptoms would concern me with Carbon Monoxide poisoning. Bad pilots on your stove, water heater exhaust plugged up?

    Honestly, have you ever been diagnosed with sensitivity to Nitroglycerine?
    Like other say, go see a doc.
     
  24. au_prospector

    au_prospector Member

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    breaking it in and getting it to throw charges mostly accurate to .02gr of titegroup

    Oh and really? two hundredths of a grain? How and why would you expect or need anything less than a tenth of a grain unless you are an analytical chemist? :uhoh:
     
  25. thomas15

    thomas15 Member

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    prospector, if you think titegroup is fine take a look at AA#2 (that is if you can find any).
     
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