Quantcast

To people with compensated pistols

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by MTMilitiaman, Jun 22, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Messages:
    3,131
    Location:
    Missoula, Montana
    I have been intriged with the 10mm Auto for a while and I like the Glock 20 more every time I handle it. I am planning on sending my HK in to be serviced and if the HK Customer Service folks don't very much impress me, along with the pistol, I will probably be selling it to purchase the Glock. I'd love to be able to afford to keep it and get the Glock but I can't right now. The pistol will be used primarily for personal protection and as a "trail gun" to protect against cougars and perhaps dispatch up to deer sized game at close range. I never really considered the compensated model for this reason--I was always told the ports disrupted the sight picture in low light and could potentially ruin your night vision. However, someone recently told me otherwise. So for those who have used compensated pistols in low light, what can you tell me about their affect on your sight picture, esp regarding any directing of flash to obscure the front sight? I am planning on using high quality, albeit max loaded ammunition from the like of Double Tap. Would you consider the compensated model given my situation? Thanks.
     
  2. Jubei

    Jubei Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    484
    Location:
    Illinois
    I've got a Glock G22C, .40 cal. that I bought used off of a friend of mine. It is true what they say about the compensated pistols. They can disrupt your vision/sight picture. They also limit their uses in certain defensive situations. But the nice thing about the Glock is that you can order a non-ported barrel and just drop it right in (also true with other guns as well).

    For my G22C, I have both a ported and non-ported barrel in .40 S&W, and I have the ported barrel in .357SIG. It gives me a lot of options on how to shoot it.

    Just food for thought,

    Jubei
     
  3. Shipwreck

    Shipwreck Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,701
    Location:
    Texas
    Ported guns are also louder than non ported ones. Had a ported 1911. Loudest gun on the range usually.
     
  4. Maddock

    Maddock Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    Arizona
    Back in the late 80’s I had a 1911 in .45ACP built with an external compensator (not porting). It did magnify the effect of the muzzle flash significantly. With no/low flash ammo it was not too bad, but with powders without flash retardant, it would significantly reduce night vision. I’ve also shot a 4” .357 Mag with porting quite a bit and it was even more spectacular at night. With the high-pressure cartridges, the difference between the powders with flash retardant and those without is like night and day. :evil:
    And as Shipwreck said, the noise is re-directed and is very noticeable. :what:
     
  5. PontificusWrecks

    PontificusWrecks Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Lake Arrowhead
    Ported guns and nice shirts don't mix

    The defensive situation that you want to avoid is carrying a ported pistol close in, rather than weavered, such as in situations where you might not want the Bad Guy to be able to reach out and grab your hands, etc. With a ported pistol fired close in, your shirt will burst into flames. Or maybe it's the middle of the night and you're in your Mickey Mouse boxers (which I find intimidate burglars worse than anything else), so when you fire your ported pistol from a defensive hold, your hairy chests will be what burst into the afore-mentioned flames. NOT a good idea. As for me, grass doesn't grow on a playground so the worst flash effect I get is a light 2nd degree, easily medicated while I wait for the Sheriff to show up and take way the room-temperature interloper.
     
  6. Peter M. Eick

    Peter M. Eick Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    5,035
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    With the right powders the muzzle flash can be truly amazing. Try some bluedot at night in that glock with a kkm comp barrel. It is light firing a flash bulb into your face.

    Does it nock the recoil down. YES. I have pulled the comp on and off my comped guns several times to see the difference. Shocking!

    Does it come free? Heck NO! Lots of flash at night, lot more sound and a reduced slide velocity.

    I would not carry a comped gun, but for the range I love them!
     
  7. esldude

    esldude Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2003
    Messages:
    289
    Owned and shot a compensated G20 some years ago. Does help with the muzzle flip. Follow up shots are quicker and more accurate.

    With cheap ammo, wow, this one had two slots for the compensation. And you got 3 foot bright yellow flames in a v-pattern. Devastating to your night vision. You would literally be blind for 30 seconds or more at night. However, Winchester Silvertips and Corbons are made for low flash. And resulted in a 6-8 inch dull blue flame. Probably didn't help night vision, but didn't leave you blind. Definitely try your chosen ammo at night.

    One other problem with some compensated 10mm Glocks. They tend to blow the front sight off. Never could keep mine on. This was years ago, maybe they have that fixed.

    I kept my non-comp G20 much longer. Also note this was several years back, before the appearance of 40 S&W. 10mmm store bought ammo was in general much stouter then. Much of it today is downloaded to near 40 cal levels.

    Personally, the flames and the noise convince me that only a competition pistol should have compensation. Oh, did I mention the noise? This baby was loud. People tend to pack up at the range next to you after a few shots.
     
  8. LoadedDrum

    LoadedDrum Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    612
    Do not confuse porting and compensators. Ports direct the flash away from the sight plane while compensators direct the flash across it. My G17C does not at all affect night shooting even with WWB. As for shooting from retention, just learn to cant the gun outward. There is a cop over on AR15.com that does this, as well as one of my friend's fellow officers who carries a 23C. Canting the gun allows you to use stronger muscles to better control the recoil any way so it is a good practice with any gun.
     
  9. armoredman

    armoredman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    17,376
    Location:
    proud to be in AZ
    Had a ported Taurus revolver once - a joy to shoot, felt like a 22 when using 38Spl, and like a .38 with magnums. Flare wasn't too bad, even with mag loads, but I never really night shot it, and traded it for a Witness 40 some time ago.
     
  10. Stevie-Ray

    Stevie-Ray Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Messages:
    4,423
    Location:
    Mitchi-gun, the Sunrise Side
    I've never had that problem with my Mark IV in .45 ACP. But my uncompensated Delta Elite throws such a fireball that it would no doubt ruin my night vision and possibly my day vision, should I ever add a comp. I thought about it years ago, as the pressure of the 10 would take advantage of a comp much better than a 45. Just didn't want to fiddle with the perfection of the DE.
     
  11. tbeb

    tbeb Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    852
    Location:
    Northwest Indiana
    Not too long ago I rented a .40 Glock with a long slide and ported barrel. I loved it. I fired it at an indoor range. I did not have any trouble with sighting during rapid fire. Same day I rented a Beretta 92 and a Glock 17. I liked the ported .40 the best, and I shot it better than the two 9mm's. One other thing, that was the first and only time I fired a .40 caliber. (If I was going to buy a ported gun today it would probably be a Glock 17C which is a 9mm. My friend has one and front sight never leaves the target during rapid fire.)
     
  12. Marcus

    Marcus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    452
    Location:
    SE Pa.
    I guess it depends on the size of the ports,caliber and particular load. My S&W 1006 10mm is Mag-na-ported and other than having less muzzle flip than normal you`d never know it even with Double Tap and hot Corbon 180gr. ammo. Never noticed any problems shooting from the hip. I just cant it a little and speed rocks are no problem. It hasn`t started me on fire yet either. On the other hand my .44 Auto Mag isn`t ported but with 240gr. S&S ammo it makes a ball of flame the size of a beach ball in bright sunlight. :D Marcus
     
  13. slopemeno

    slopemeno Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    Messages:
    285
    Had a guy in our league use a racegun 10mm (clark bowlingpin weight thru-barrel ported) and his 185 pf ammo was FAR from the worst. Now hot .38 super, that was painful to RO. HOWEVER-I have shot all of the above from the "protected" position, AKA speedrock, and no, my clothes didnt burst into flames, my chesthair wasnt singed,etc. ALL pistols will be punishingly loud fired indoors without hearing protection. All will flash in the dark. You can identify what you're shooting at, right?
     
  14. 355sigfan

    355sigfan member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,850
    Location:
    Alaska
    The worst feature of a ported gun is that they will hurt and possibly blind you if you have to use them from a weapon retention postion. That may still be a concern on a trial gun if your being malled and need to shoot the critter up close.
    Pat
     
  15. LoadedDrum

    LoadedDrum Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    612
    If you sustain injury when firing a ported gun from retention, it is your own fault for using bad technique. You are supposed to cant the gun outward when shooting from retention. It directs the flash away from you, lets you use stronger muscles to better control the gun, and reduces the chance of jamming because the slide is not close enough to loose clothing to snag or catch it.
     
  16. 355sigfan

    355sigfan member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,850
    Location:
    Alaska
    BS to the above post. If your using perfect technique your not in a gun fight. Things don't always work as perfectly as we train. Ports don't belong on defense guns most firearms instructors from Clint Smith to Mass Ayoob agree on that.
    Pat
     
  17. slopemeno

    slopemeno Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    Messages:
    285
    355sigfan-
    have you ever tried one?
     
  18. Peter M. Eick

    Peter M. Eick Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    5,035
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    [​IMG]

    Ok, ignore the other guns. The glock 20 at the top has a kkm comp on it. Notice that big chunk of stainless up front. I know you cannot see it but that is one dang big hole up front. It will dump a lot of gas and a HUGE flash with blue dot loads or some of the other flashers out there.

    I don't care how good you are, in the spur of the moment, the g20 with a comp is still a darn big gun to get into position. If you are running some of the more flashy hot loads you WILL get blinded by any sort of low hip shot or canted fire.

    If you have not fired one of these little buggers, you really have no idea how big the flames can be.



    By the way, as I said above the comp really really works. With hot loads "nuke loads", the gun will recoil DOWN and back. It is startling if you are not expecting it.


    Also, do NOT underestimate the blast. You can feel the heat on your face from the flames out of the comp and double plugs are required!
     
  19. 9055

    9055 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2003
    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    At a theatre near you
    After reading some of these posts one would conclude that the only reason to shoot a pistol is for self defense or law enforcement. Whatever happened to shooting for fun or recreation or even shooting games like IPSC and Steel Challenge?
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2005
  20. 355sigfan

    355sigfan member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,850
    Location:
    Alaska
    355sigfan-
    have you ever tried one?
    END QUOTE

    Yes better than that I own and have owned many ported guns. They are fine on fun guns not used for serious purposes. But they are not a good idea on defensive weapons. Ported guns I own now include a 5 shot Ruger Redhawk I had built by Hamilton Bowen in 45 Colt. Its a woods gun. I had a Glock 27 I had ported before I knew better. I had a sig 229 Sport, I had a Taurus 605 Custom with porting again before I knew better and recieved training as a cop and a firearms instructor. Porting is fine for game guns or sporting guns.
    Pat
     
  21. hcker2000

    hcker2000 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    414
    I think I will stick with my pa-63 ;)
     
  22. LoadedDrum

    LoadedDrum Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    612

    Firing from retention is a learned skill. That is why you have to practice it to begin with. Now if you practice canting, your muscle memory will default to that when you need to. It is a coarse skill, not a fine skill. It is not something that requires a super level of coordination and form, and is no more difficult than training your self to turn off the safety in the draw stroke or use you support hand to slingshot the slide.
     
  23. Rockstar

    Rockstar member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,353
    Peter, nice pics, particularly of the comp'd G20. For the purpose of this thread, though, I don't see why you keep referring to the horrible flash with Blue Dot. You are aware, I'm sure, that there are other powders that are much less inclined to produce a blinding flash than Blue Dot, so how about trying some low-flash powders and letting us know how they work in low light? I don't see the slower slide speed as a minus. That is, after all, indicative of a significant reduction in recoil. Isn't that why you bought the comp in the first place?
     
  24. Peter M. Eick

    Peter M. Eick Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    5,035
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Welllll,,,,

    At the time, blue dot gave me great accuracy and still had the velocity I wanted. Thus, live with the flash. I do agree that the slowed slide velocity was nice, but as I worked up to "nuke" load levels I brought the slide velocity back up and increased the flash pretty dramatically. I then switched over to 800x which also flashes quite nicely!

    After a bit, I got irritated at the squishy nature of the frame during recoil and sold the gun to my team leader. He does not reload, shoots factory 10mm and really likes the gun. All it all we both are happy.

    My key point was that the comped 20 with certain loads/ammo is quite flashy and to use such a gun in a carry mode might have "unanticipated" consequences.
     
  25. roo_ster

    roo_ster Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    3,202
    Location:
    USA
    Nope

    Nope. Given that a goodly proportion of "personal protection" uses of firearms occur at night, I'd go non-ported/compensated. If you want a compensated bbl for gun games, by all means buy an aftermarket bbl.

    Having fired the G29 compact 10mm to qualify for my TX CHL, I can't see where the full-sixed G20 would have so much recoil as to require porting (outside of gun games). That big, plasticky frame absorbs a lot of the recoil.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice