to shoot... or not to shoot a collectable weapon
- Thread starter Sven
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BigJake_old
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Any other gun pretty much, i would say shoot, but if the pro says not to, i'd make an exception this once, if you have something that rare, enjoy it from a safe distance, but heck, its your gun man, no one can tell you to not shoot it.
Sven
Senior Member
I made my decision - to shoot it very lightly and gingerly to confirm operation, get a feel for how it groups and sights.... and then basically set it aside.
Here are the results of my first two shots from 25 yards, using Winchester 100 grain soft points - not holding a bench rest, but using my elbows on the stand:
I stopped there - for a while - as this really just clinched it for me that this is not going to be my 'plinker', I will be saving for an IAI or more 'standard' M1 for my original goal: semi-auto rifle for short range plinking, possible varminting.
This was hidden upside, and I feel very lucky - a custodian of history.
Next I resolved to test a 10 shot group for overall patterning. I adjusted my aim so that I was aiming the iron sights 4 inches high - basically covering the orange dot... hard to confirm aim like this, but I don't know how to adjust for 25 yards.
Well, here was my first ever 10-shot group out of anything longer than a pistol:
The trigger pull is a little stiff - 5-6 pounds? - and I am still learning how to sight that peeper.
I may shoot her again - maybe once a year - don't worry, though.... I'll go easy on her as I plan on getting that IAI or more 'standard' M1 Carbine soon for some mid-distance fun.
Anyone got one for sale?
Thanks again for the advice. You guys are all really helpful.
-sven
Here are the results of my first two shots from 25 yards, using Winchester 100 grain soft points - not holding a bench rest, but using my elbows on the stand:
I stopped there - for a while - as this really just clinched it for me that this is not going to be my 'plinker', I will be saving for an IAI or more 'standard' M1 for my original goal: semi-auto rifle for short range plinking, possible varminting.
This was hidden upside, and I feel very lucky - a custodian of history.
Next I resolved to test a 10 shot group for overall patterning. I adjusted my aim so that I was aiming the iron sights 4 inches high - basically covering the orange dot... hard to confirm aim like this, but I don't know how to adjust for 25 yards.
Well, here was my first ever 10-shot group out of anything longer than a pistol:
The trigger pull is a little stiff - 5-6 pounds? - and I am still learning how to sight that peeper.
I may shoot her again - maybe once a year - don't worry, though.... I'll go easy on her as I plan on getting that IAI or more 'standard' M1 Carbine soon for some mid-distance fun.
Anyone got one for sale?
Thanks again for the advice. You guys are all really helpful.
-sven
10-Ring
Member
I had a feeling curiosity was getting to ya...probably why you started the thread to begin w/ ANyway, now that you've got that out of your system, clean it up nice and set it asde and buy yourself a shooter!
ANyway, now that you've got that out of your system, clean it up nice and set it asde and buy yourself a shooter!3 gun
Member
Sad to read about someone taking a Mickey Mantle rookie card and putting it in their spokes. True, carbines where made to be shot and most were, that's what made this a true museum piece. Unfired is a state you can't clean back to and may not exist anywhere else again. This rifle truly was one of a kind. A priceless part of history has been lost.
BigJake_old
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Glad you enjoyed shooting your new gun, Don't let anyone shame you for it based on what they consider prudent. You're enjoying something you spent money on to use anyway, and thats what matters. To the folks that are gona whine about that, where were you with offers big enough to keep him from shooting it??
Sven
Senior Member
Below is a link to a digital movie (3.6 Megs - large download) of the firing, filmed by John Paul "Fitz" Jones.
Please be patient with the download - we throttle our bandwidth on this server - you may want to 'pause' playback until it has been completely downloaded, then play it:
www.imageseek.com/sven/2003_02_22/m1_mix3.AVI
Please be patient with the download - we throttle our bandwidth on this server - you may want to 'pause' playback until it has been completely downloaded, then play it:
www.imageseek.com/sven/2003_02_22/m1_mix3.AVI
Hehehehe....
I feel so fortunate to have seen this weapon in person today at our Sacto THR shoot.
THANK YOU, SVEN!!!!!!
Honestly, I got chills and an exhilarating rush looking at, and then actually HOLDING a piece of history.
I mean, a real, honest part of our nation's heritage.
WOW.
Thank you for that experience, Sven.
I bet it was even better shooting it!!!
Frankly, Ed is not right in the head.
I would honestly first sell an appendage before I would sell such an artifact.
I hope the same goes for you, sir.
If you ever came upon such dire straits that you considered selling that weapon, call me.
I'll give you a grant so you can hold on to that.
It would be a true travesty for you to have to sell that.
Nice meeting you today!
Drjones
I feel so fortunate to have seen this weapon in person today at our Sacto THR shoot.
THANK YOU, SVEN!!!!!!
Honestly, I got chills and an exhilarating rush looking at, and then actually HOLDING a piece of history.
I mean, a real, honest part of our nation's heritage.
WOW.
Thank you for that experience, Sven.
I bet it was even better shooting it!!!
Frankly, Ed is not right in the head.
I would honestly first sell an appendage before I would sell such an artifact.
I hope the same goes for you, sir.
If you ever came upon such dire straits that you considered selling that weapon, call me.
I'll give you a grant so you can hold on to that.
It would be a true travesty for you to have to sell that.
Nice meeting you today!
Drjones
Congratulations. That's what I would have done because I have no great feeling for what some relation or not 30 years from now might be inclined to do with that or any other rifle. Unlike Mickey Mantle baseball cards, firearms are reviled in some circles and who knows what might become of it in the wrong hands. Wouldn't it truly be a waste for that rifle to be crunched never havig been fired. Better to shoot it and get some satisfaction now. I'd take a rifle like this out on July 4th, Veterans Day or Memorial Day just because I could.
A couple points: Keep the firing rate low so the barrel doesn't heat up;and don't readjust the sights more than you have, it's not like you'll be shooting a match. Clean it up carefully and put a good coat of CLP on it. Did you save the brass?
A couple points: Keep the firing rate low so the barrel doesn't heat up;and don't readjust the sights more than you have, it's not like you'll be shooting a match. Clean it up carefully and put a good coat of CLP on it. Did you save the brass?
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PlayTheAces
Member
Sven,
I have to tell you this thread caught my attention.
Three years ago I had a Winchester Carbine passed down to me and it sounds like it could be a brother to yours. Early configuration, all original and in nice condition though mine has been fired.
Mine was carried on Bouganville by a Navy Corpsman. This guy went through the Battle of Coral Sea, survived his ship being sunk, and was about as gung ho as they got. The Corpsman in question was my uncle's brother in law.
My dad also carried the carbine in Europe, and though he didn't hang on to his, he did bring back a full magazine which I have. If I recall there are a couple different years mixed in there. Where did you research the headstamps?
Great thread.
I have to tell you this thread caught my attention.
Three years ago I had a Winchester Carbine passed down to me and it sounds like it could be a brother to yours. Early configuration, all original and in nice condition though mine has been fired.
Mine was carried on Bouganville by a Navy Corpsman. This guy went through the Battle of Coral Sea, survived his ship being sunk, and was about as gung ho as they got. The Corpsman in question was my uncle's brother in law.
My dad also carried the carbine in Europe, and though he didn't hang on to his, he did bring back a full magazine which I have. If I recall there are a couple different years mixed in there. Where did you research the headstamps?
Great thread.
Edward429451
member
Aw, 3gun's just jealous cause he's never fired a piece of history.
Now that its somewhat proven, you probably should take it easy on it though. Cut out the targets and store with it too. Its virtually unfired, yet proven. Date the targets too.
Now that its somewhat proven, you probably should take it easy on it though. Cut out the targets and store with it too. Its virtually unfired, yet proven. Date the targets too.
Sven
Senior Member
I saved the brass, with John Paul helping me learn how to spot brass (use the sunlight to your advantage, and walk in circles).
Shooting on the 4th of July sounds appropriate, as does saving targets and video of each event.
The targets have been saved - digitally. I have enough junk floating around that I do not want to start collecting targets in anything other than high-res digital photography.
The man who owned this weapon before me fought in Iwo Jima and was one of those guys who had stacks of rifles and guns, just sitting out in his house... unfortunately, he passed away before I got to meet him, but the tales I hear from his brother (80 years old) are intense... they would use the carbines to clear tunnels above their anti-aircraft battery.
He'd walk up to a T intersection with arms crossed, two carbines in hand... WHAP-WHAP-WHAP-WHAP-WHAP he'd fire, and then he'd listen for any sounds of scurrying about.
I guess the Japanese were holded up in the tunnels, and would not surrender or come out.
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Copying my post ffrom Yohan's poll thread, to clarify:
Folks - the gun had been shot before. Ed Silva's testing showed that the barrel had very light wear - test firing, perhaps sighting in, etc. The bolt showed use marks, etc.
Ed's point to me was: don't wear this out.
I won't.
I hope my kids (no wife or kids yet) someday appreciate this as much as I do - that's probably the only way I will be able to ensure that it is preserved, short of donating it to the Winchester museum or something.
Here's a question for you: do you think my future children would be able to appreciate the value of the weapon without firing it themselves? =)
-
Now - help me get back to plinking:
...what kind of Carbine should I get for my plinker? USGI Mixmaster, or IAI new?
Shooting on the 4th of July sounds appropriate, as does saving targets and video of each event.
The targets have been saved - digitally. I have enough junk floating around that I do not want to start collecting targets in anything other than high-res digital photography.
The man who owned this weapon before me fought in Iwo Jima and was one of those guys who had stacks of rifles and guns, just sitting out in his house... unfortunately, he passed away before I got to meet him, but the tales I hear from his brother (80 years old) are intense... they would use the carbines to clear tunnels above their anti-aircraft battery.
He'd walk up to a T intersection with arms crossed, two carbines in hand... WHAP-WHAP-WHAP-WHAP-WHAP he'd fire, and then he'd listen for any sounds of scurrying about.
I guess the Japanese were holded up in the tunnels, and would not surrender or come out.
-
Copying my post ffrom Yohan's poll thread, to clarify:
Folks - the gun had been shot before. Ed Silva's testing showed that the barrel had very light wear - test firing, perhaps sighting in, etc. The bolt showed use marks, etc.
Ed's point to me was: don't wear this out.
I won't.
I hope my kids (no wife or kids yet) someday appreciate this as much as I do - that's probably the only way I will be able to ensure that it is preserved, short of donating it to the Winchester museum or something.
Here's a question for you: do you think my future children would be able to appreciate the value of the weapon without firing it themselves? =)
-
Now - help me get back to plinking:
...what kind of Carbine should I get for my plinker? USGI Mixmaster, or IAI new?
MountainPeak
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Sven, thanks for ignoring my first post. You have made me feel better about being weak. I will pass on more guns to my grand daughter in "like new" condition. I have thought about it, and she will love them more because grandpa shot them! See I can talk myself into anything. Notice how FIRM I was in my advice to you in the first post? Enjoy the gun.
Notice how FIRM I was in my advice to you in the first post? Enjoy the gun.Sven
Senior Member
It's not rationalization - its being practical and making a decision that you can live with. I feel I can live with this.
Can you imagine being on your death bed, at a ripe old age... as as you start fading toward the bright white light... you wonder to yourself, "I wonder if that old unfired carbine even worked? Darnit, I shouldda fired it..."
It might be enough to send you to purgatory, or another life as a walnut tree or something, depending on your belief system.
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Just put in an order for a 'shooter' carbine to fill my original spec (which was superceeded): a post-2000 CA-legal 'urban assult carbine' I can have fun with from 25-50 yards - and use should the need arise.
I'm considering attaching a removable red dot 1x optic on there... check out my thread here on THR and chime in with your thoughts:
Red Dot on an M1 Carbine
Can you imagine being on your death bed, at a ripe old age... as as you start fading toward the bright white light... you wonder to yourself, "I wonder if that old unfired carbine even worked? Darnit, I shouldda fired it..."
It might be enough to send you to purgatory, or another life as a walnut tree or something, depending on your belief system.
-
Just put in an order for a 'shooter' carbine to fill my original spec (which was superceeded): a post-2000 CA-legal 'urban assult carbine' I can have fun with from 25-50 yards - and use should the need arise.
I'm considering attaching a removable red dot 1x optic on there... check out my thread here on THR and chime in with your thoughts:
Red Dot on an M1 Carbine
Glad you got it out of your system, Sven. Like you said on your deathbed is when the regrets are going to come out. Who would want to think about not firing a gun at a time like that?
Aside: My dad got an Inland 30 US carbine equally as nice in the '60s. After we cleaned the cosmoline off I would bet $100 it had never been shot. We took care of that oversight.
NOTE: If the wood is not almost black as the base of a telephone pole, I would not think it's in "original" condition. They were SOAKED in cosmoline both wood and metal.
Aside: My dad got an Inland 30 US carbine equally as nice in the '60s. After we cleaned the cosmoline off I would bet $100 it had never been shot. We took care of that oversight.
NOTE: If the wood is not almost black as the base of a telephone pole, I would not think it's in "original" condition. They were SOAKED in cosmoline both wood and metal.
Cosmoline
Member
I had a similar problem with a mint-condition, non-import Iranian mauser carbine. In the end I've decided to sell it, since I hate having rifles stored away.
My vote is "don't shoot" on this one. Not so much because of the investment in cash, but because SO many of these carbines have been loved to death. Though many were made, there aren't too many left that are truly mint. As a piece of American history, I think you've got to set this one aside and get a modern clone for shooting.
My vote is "don't shoot" on this one. Not so much because of the investment in cash, but because SO many of these carbines have been loved to death. Though many were made, there aren't too many left that are truly mint. As a piece of American history, I think you've got to set this one aside and get a modern clone for shooting.
MountainPeak
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capnrik, I don't remember!
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