Tokarev AR Build...

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing and Repairs' started by Winter Borne, Mar 11, 2009.

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  1. Winter Borne

    Winter Borne Member

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    Okay,

    I have given this some thought lately and have decided to make an SBR upper in 7.62 x 25 Tokarev. I have an SBR in 223 already and have been less than satisfied with it. I have looked at the .40 and .45 uppers from OLY, and the 9mm upper from Rock River too. The Tokarev ammo is still cheap, readily available and a HOT round. I plan on using PPsh 36 round mags with it. I know I will have to modify the mags, or create a custom mag well block, but that is doable for me.

    I was thinking of using a 7.62 x 39 barrel for the build, cut down and threaded to 11”, and of course re-chambered with a sleeve of some sort to accept the Tokarev cartridge, but just learned that the 7.62 russian uses a 7.92mm bullet, and the Tokarev uses a 7.8mm so that probably won't work. I have read that the 9mm bolt needs no modification for it to work with the Tokarev round unless I can find an un-chambered 7.62 barrel that can be modified to work with the AR upper.

    • I am in search of a smith who can cut and thread my barrel, and chamber it to Tokarev specs.
    • A barrel shop to buy the barrel
    • Any thoughts on this from builders / smiths / or anyone with an something to add that may help.

    Thanks
    mk
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2009
  2. kilo729

    kilo729 Member

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  3. CaptainM1911A1

    CaptainM1911A1 Member

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    I'm considering the same project.

    Here's some threads from other boards with recent activity, including a magwell insert that will handle the PPS43 mags:

    http://762x25tokarev.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=firearms&thread=5&page=1

    http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=347428&page=1

    http://georgiagunandgame.com/ar15-m16/407-7-62x25-tok-build.html

    http://georgiagunandgame.com/ar15-m16/544-my-7-62x25tok-build-done-pics-vid.html

    The site for the magwell:

    http://www.heavymetalco.com/content.aspx?Page=Tokarev

    And here's a YouTube of one of the builds "in action"...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRIC4lGfyIY

    In the discussions, you'll find both SBR and standard length, DI gas and - fairly recently - blowback discussions. Even a couple one-offs, such as using old CZ mags. And great pictures, although I've lost track of where I found the AR-15 with a Shpagin drum!

    Hope to get one started soon...best of luck with yours!
     
  4. easy

    easy Member

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  5. CaptainM1911A1

    CaptainM1911A1 Member

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  6. Alpacca 45

    Alpacca 45 Member

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    It's worth slugging a few bores on commie rifles and pistols, as they were supposedly drilled, reamed and rifled with the same tooling. That said, most later (post ww2) commie stuff has hard chromed bores, so slicing off the worn throat of an old barrel and rechambering and threading may not be an option.

    For a drum mag you will need an open "jaw" below the bolt way.
     
  7. Col. Plink

    Col. Plink Member

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    Sounds awesome! Keep us updated.
     
  8. zoom6zoom

    zoom6zoom Member

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  9. CaptainM1911A1

    CaptainM1911A1 Member

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    An update of sorts.

    www.762x25.com will be coming up soon. Don't know which of the sources is doing that website, but eagerly awaiting its arrival. Hope it will be expanded to include related products / projects in that caliber...but first things first (smile).

    Seems that Heavy Metal, Teppo Jutsu and Ron M. Williams are producing variants of an AR upper at present. CNCGunsmithing is apparently selling as well.

    If you don't necessarily want AR Upper Receiver geometry - and as mentioned by zoom6zoom - the folks over at Prexis have developed a side feed (PPS43 mags) - side eject upper to mount to an AR15 lower receiver. Here's a "store" link finally.

    http://www.prexis.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=P&Category_Code=ZKUP

    There's supposed to be multiple versions available.

    And, there's hints of a version that will use PPSh 41 mags / drums - but still using the AR lower.
     
  10. Winter Borne

    Winter Borne Member

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    Update as requested,

    I have been working with Heavy Metal for my PPSH adaptor and it is fantastic, and Marty at Teppo is supplying the barrel, 8.5" Heavy along with the modified bolt. I am using an M3 upper with Mag-Pul stock, along with an LMT hand guard and HK style sights.

    I am still waiting on the Barrel from Teppo, but I knew it would be a while when I ordered it so no worries there. I'll post pictures and a range report when assembled. Now all I need is a nice tok pistol.

    mk
     
  11. Winter Borne

    Winter Borne Member

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    March to October and the barrel finally came this week. Wrong threading, and the gas block is set too high to work with my 1 piece hand gurad! Barrel and block are going back for re-fit...

    On a happier note, I ordered a TT-33 yesterday from AIM.

    mk
     
  12. peyton

    peyton Member

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    Last edited: Oct 31, 2009
  13. Winter Borne

    Winter Borne Member

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    Thanks Peyton, I am as well, but with a 9" barrel. I don't have a chronograph but I wonder if I can expect the same velocity from the shorter barrel.

    Perhaps I'll get the barrel back next month and can finally get a range report.

    mk
     
  14. CaptainM1911A1

    CaptainM1911A1 Member

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    One of the AR uppers from HM just sold on GunBroker, as did one of the ZK (Prexis) pistols.

    As other alternatives, on the Saiga forum there's the story of the M11/9 converted using CZ26 magazines.

    And just in the past few days, a Sterling pistol build by Wise Lite (but they're willing to do a full size carbine) using modified Sten magazines.

    Now if we could just get a reliable double stack in 1911 geometry, and have Mech Tech do a Carbine kit, we'd have almost all the bases covered!
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2009
  15. Winter Borne

    Winter Borne Member

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    Update from Teppo, Barrel due any day now. I just got my TT-33s from Aim so I am ready for arange trip soon. Pictures will follow as promised.

    mk
     
  16. Winter Borne

    Winter Borne Member

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    Assembly Report

    My barrel from Teppo Jittsu finally got here, actually it got here Friday Night, but I had a weekedn away with the family so after months of waiting, I had to wait some more, but it's all good.

    Barrel is 8-1/2" with a Midway 7" hand guard. I will be taking it to the range this week (I hope) along with the new TT-33 I got last month.

    mk
     

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  17. Norinco982lover

    Norinco982lover Member

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    That looks great!!!

    If I may ask...what exactly are you planning on using this for? Is there a certain purpose for a gun of this caliber and design (a purpose for you I mean)?
     
  18. CaptainM1911A1

    CaptainM1911A1 Member

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    Winter Borne, that is just plain wonderful!

    Excellent selection of equipment and execution of the build based on your pictures.

    I can think of a couple of reasons why this rig would be very useful.

    Would very much enjoy hearing about the accuracy and handling attributes once you've broken it in a bit. Including what work, if any, was done to square up / true up the magazines.

    Thanks again for the great pictures!

    PS: Sodom on the Potomac indeed!
     
  19. Winter Borne

    Winter Borne Member

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    Norinco, I plan on shooting the hell out of it. Really! I have always wanted a pistol caliber sub-gun ala MP5, but I have never been willing to spend that kind of money for the HK. The clones are marginal in my opinion so I was going to convert this to a .40 0r .45.

    I can buy 1200 rounds of 7.62 x 25 for about 125 bucks so this is what clinched it for me. As I looked into this caliber I became more and more impressed by it, plus I liked the fact that it would not be just another bolt on pistol conversion. This one required a little more effort and I guess I am drawn to the challenge.

    Hope that sums it up for you, and it's not as pithy as, "because I wanted one while I still can"

    Thanks for the rest of the comments. I will post more as I break it in.

    mk
     
  20. CaptainM1911A1

    CaptainM1911A1 Member

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    All:

    Coastal Gun Works is also providing a 7.62x25mm AR Upper like Ron Williams' DI.

    * Chrome Lined 18" Mid Length Barrel
    * A2 Upper
    * Gas Operated instead of blow-back like a normal AR-15
    * Bolt & Badger Charging Handle
    * UTG #146MA Mid Length Quad Rails
    * Uses Standard AR-15 Lowers
    * Magwell Adapter (uses inexpensive PPS-43 mags)
    * Comes w/one 35-round Mag.

    Website: www.coastalgunworks.com
     
  21. Winter Borne

    Winter Borne Member

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    Captian M1911A1,

    Thanks, and sorry for such a long time to reply. The accuracy and overall function is fantastic and far better than expected. I believe in no small part to how well the gun "fits" in your hand, and balances nicely.

    There was a lot of tweeking to get this reliable. Each magazine had to be hand fitted and then filed and checked 5-6 times for contact marks with the bolt. I used a standard 223 buffer and spring which was far too heavy for this round so that took no small amount of tweeking as well.

    All in all I am very pleased, and now there is bulk non-corrosive ammo from AIM so I am all set.

    mk
     
  22. Mp7

    Mp7 Member

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    that is one of the coolest guns on THR. What was the overall cost?

    perfect size, perfect caliber ... hows the penetration out of that barrel?
     
  23. Winter Borne

    Winter Borne Member

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    Mp7 Thanks, It is one of my favorites.

    I had a spreadsheet on it, but now I cannot find it. If starting with an AR already you have the Barrel / Gas Tube Cost (300) Bolt re-size cost (25), and Magwell adaptor cost (125) To that you will need PPSH mags (10 ea) and you are all set.

    I started with a SBR platform so i did not need toadd the Tax Stamp, and I sold off the 223 upper to help finance the build.

    PM me if you want contact info on the suppliers I used.

    mk
     
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