Tokarev TT-33 Buy?

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While you may win a criminal trial, if your loads don't over penentrate and don't hit any innocent ppl. and the shooting is in self defense.

The family or your shooting victim , is going to take you to the cleaners, in a civil lawsuit.

No body I lawfully shoot is going to do anything but waste money trying to sue me
GOTTA love castle doctrine, it goes to court, DA says it was legal, and they have to pay court costs, and those can get damn expensive.

and if you hate the guns so much, what are you doing on this thread other than spoiling for a fight.
 
BIG FAT DAVE - I pity you if you ever get into a shooting, you really need to ask some qualified experts in your area, on what type of loads to carry.

I pity you living in fear of what might happen if you are forced to defend your life.
While there may have been a few sensational cases, what percentage of shootings do you think end up in court after the defender is cleared?

Try this, I'll wait and you can tell me how it feels:
-walk to the bathroom or any other mirror
-stand up straight, throw your shoulders back and look yourself in the eye
-state the following in your most serious voice:
-"I am a law-abiding citizen, and I am not to be questioned"
--Repeat until you believe it, as it stands you're awfully ready and willing to be questioned

Tell us if you feel better after taking a swing at that, I bet you will.
 
Almost 99 % of them do unless you live in a state that does not allow you to sue an individually civilly after they have been cleared in a justified criminal or grand jury trial.

I believed the same as you only months ago and I moved to another state and I had to take a new CCW class to carry concealed.

FMJ may have been considered legal to carry 20 yrs ago, but there have been new court cases tried and won by victims of shooting involving FMJ, HUNTING AND TARGET LOADS , HANDLOADS etc.

USE THESE TYPES OF LOADS FOR DEFENSE AND A DA OR CIVIL ATTORNEY WILL TRY AND PORTRAY YOU AS CHALES BRONSON OR RAMBO LOOKING FOR TROUBLE.

Any qualified CCW trainer states clearly to only carry loads recommended for police and personal defense loads.

The new school of thought is that if you carry the same ammunition that your local police use, then there has already been case precedance set, when the police departments service ammunition has been brought into its legal use in a police shooting.

Also when ever you use your gun in self defense, you are going to be held to the same legal standards that a cop must be justified in using deadly force and you not being a cop, will not have the police department and the DA on your side.
 
FMJ may have been considered legal to carry 20 yrs ago, but there have been new court cases tried and won by victims of shooting involving FMJ, HUNTING AND TARGET LOADS , HANDLOADS etc.

Can you cite one? I thought not...
 
Almost 99 %
[Citation needed]

Any qualified CCW trainer states clearly to only carry loads recommended for police and personal defense loads
And when you get accused of "trying to be the police" because your ammo box says "law enforcement" what then?
What if you get accused of "looking for someone to shoot"?

You'll do what I already said, stand up tall, and state that you're not to be questioned and stand on the fact that you shot defensively.
Act like a citizen, not a subject who needs police approval, for the love of FSM!
 
Your not made out to be a wanabee cop, if you use police ammunition. If it is legal for the police to use a certain type of ammunition in shooting someone, then it is also legal for a private citizen to use the same ammo for self defense.

I did not say to use ammo only marked for LEO use only.

I am not comparing ammunition to what swat would use or hi power rifles or 50 BMG, you have to use some common sense here.

Read my posting in the handguns general discussion about CCW ammunition and we will see what the CCW and Police say.
 
Ok so back on topic
if you want to take the thread this way
XR, please take it to S&T

I was thinking about getting one, really can't beat the price, but I already have one, and just can't swing it, wife would say I should have spent it on the kids, and she won't buy that I got it for the little guy....

but hell of a deal, hell of a gun, as long as it's in good condition, I have seen pretty ones that are eaten out inside from not cleaning after corrosive ammo.
 
The decision is simple would you rather have a quality made west german P6 9mm for $329 or the Tokarev for $200, with no parts or future service available for it.

Ammo difference .762 x 25 = 1100 rounds for $100 or 9mm x 19 = 1000 rounds for $169

You may pay a little more now if you buy a sig p6, but believe me you will be a lot happier with the Sig P6 than the Tokarev and what happens when all the cheap .762 x 25 ammo dries up and you have to buy custom loads for it.

30 cal luger was in the same boat years ago, what good is it to own a gun that you can not afford to buy the ammo for.

Alot of these com bloc guns are fun to toy with, but a lot of them really serve no practicle purpose when compared to other firearms similar to them in caliber and price.

Its like trying to use a moisant nagant 91/30 for a long range deer rifle. It would cost you about $450 to scope one and install a good trigger on it, as opposed to just buying a savage bolt action $300 30-06 at wally world in the first place.

You have to use some common sense when buying these surplus guns, as to what you will really use it for, and what value you can get out of it.

If you buy the Tokarev get the yugo one as they are probaly the best quality and buy about 3000 rnds that should last a life time of shooting.
 
Heres another members post about his now dead CZ52 , your Tokarev could end up the same way.

Quote : My CZ-52 bit the dust...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have had this pistol for around 5 years now and have probably put 4000 rounds through it. It has been a great pistol and on of my favorite guns. I took it shooting yesterday and it performed great as usual, though; i did have one stovepipe which i have never gotten before.

When I cleaned it later at home, i noticed a 1" crack on the slide starting at the ejection port and going toward the muzzle end. Needless to say, this pistol is no longer safe to shoot.

I have mostly shot romanian surplus though it, but I did put 800rounds of the bad '52 headstamp bulgarian though it some years ago. I remember there was a couple of hot ones in there, but nothing serious and i didnt see any damage. Again, that was years ago and i have put thousands of rounds through it since.

I think maybe the rough machining, which creates stress risers; and the poor communist metallurgy caused the problem. It seems like the slide of the pistol is made from the same metal as the famously breakable firing pin. I dont know for sure.

Well, now I'm looking for a new slide. If anyone knows where I can get one, that would be a big help. I would hate to retire this gun for good.
 
Alot of these com bloc guns are fun to toy with, but a lot of them really serve no practicle purpose when compared to other firearms similar to them in caliber and price.

Many of us don't care if a gun has a practical purpose. Only a few of my guns have a practical purpose, the rest are for fun or just because I find them interesting or had $200 in my pocket when I saw it.
 
I have a Romanian one and I love it. They are a real blast to shoot with all the muzzle energy and cheap surplus ammo. I'm not a big fan of SOG (will buy from someone else if it is available elsewhere), but they do have a very good return policy.
 
It seems like the slide of the pistol is made from the same metal as the famously breakable firing pin. I dont know for sure.

^ :scrutiny: :rolleyes:


BTW.....There's several commercial manufactures for 7.62x25.....Including Sellier & Bellot, PRVI, Wolf and Winchester.......Even more for 9x18 Mak.

I doubt there's going to be any issues getting ammo when the surplus dries up.:rolleyes: ....... If it cost more so what. You want to play, you pay.
 
I own a Romanian Tokarev, and find it to be a lot of pistol. I bought it at the height of the ammo shortage, when 9mm was just about unobtainable. Noticed that surplus 7.62x25 was available cheap. I have a sealed can that I wont open.
While I used to own a P6 and thought it a good serviceble handgun, it was nowhere near the fun of the Tok. I shoot my Tok all the way out to 100yds...The flat trajectory makes it easy. There are JHP's available, and the Tok actually carries very well...not many full sized service pistols carry as easily, due to the short grip and how thin the pistol is.
 
Its like trying to use a moisant nagant 91/30 for a long range deer rifle. It would cost you about $450 to scope one and install a good trigger on it, as opposed to just buying a savage bolt action $300 30-06 at wally world in the first place.

Seriously? Have you ever tinkered with a "mosin-nagant"? You can adjust the trigger with a file and a piece of tin can, and mounting a scope can be as cheap or as expensive as you want to make it, with all the scout mounts and repro mosin sniper scopes out there, it's never going to be more expensive than scoping that $300 GUN. you're already $200 behind going that route. But this thread isn't about the mosin-nagant, so moving on to the tt-33.

Heres another members post about his now dead CZ52 , your Tokarev could end up the same way.

Did one of these things eat your dog or something? The tt-33 is not a cz-52. They're made in different countries using different tooling methods and different mechanisms altogether. Further, that's literally the only cz-52 I've ever heard of failing in this fashion. The tt-33 is built copying a JMB design, so if you think they're inherently unsafe, then to be charitable or intellectually honest you have to also submit that the 1911, 1903, and 1908 colts are inherently unsafe. As is any modern gun utilizing the same kind of locked-breech design (including, for example, those two kimbers and brownings you mentioned in your range report thread).

As for ammunition prices: of course they'll go up. Everything goes up in price per inflation and availability. You're .45 will go up, and is way higher than 7.62x25 is now. If it gets cost prohibitive, sell the gun (which will also have gone up in value due to inflation. Funny how economics works). The fact that 7.62x25 is cheaper than any other center fire round on the market, has energy levels that blow 9mm para out of the water and some approaching .357 sig, and available in a handgun that's slim, accurate and comfortable, makes it a pretty freakin' enticing thing as far as I'm concerned. There's no reason not to buy it at the price it's at now, and investing in something that you know for a fact will go up in value later is pretty much exactly how you make money in any field ever (though I know that's not the intent here... just a nice side effect).
It's chambered in the tt-33, the cz-52, some ak variants, some sterling rifles and pistols, ppsh variants, it makes a good cheap plinking round for mosin nagants with a $20 adapter.

FMJ may have been considered legal to carry 20 yrs ago, but there have been new court cases tried and won by victims of shooting involving FMJ, HUNTING AND TARGET LOADS , HANDLOADS etc.

Doesn't matter. You can't cite a source for FMJs being treated any worse in a courtroom than hollow points (though I've seen plenty of anecdotal evidence suggesting that the OPPOSITE is true). The biggest factor here is that this argument is completely ridiculous, because hollow point ammunition in 7.62x25 is widely available and pretty cheap. A simple internet search would have told you that.

but, here's a couple links!

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=360976
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/49074-5.html
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/37236-5.html (though this is sold out)

In any case, if you want a fun plinking gun with plenty of muzzle energy for self defense, with plenty of ammunition available to make it viable for self defense, a gun that has the capability of defeating lower-rated armor, with the cheapest bulk prices of any (that I know of) centerfire round... buy a tokarev. I've never known anyone to be dissatisfied with one, other than the funky grip angle, which can be fixed any number of ways.

Edit: XR, I just read your plastic vs steel pistol thread, and now I'm more confused than ever. The tt-33 should be right up your alley: it's an all-steel gun utilizing nice machining and build quality for far cheaper than even the plastic guns you loathe (for, I think, biased reasons, but that's neither here nor there). Russian heat-treating methods have been fantastic since the late 19th century. I've never heard of nor seen one KB, and they're about as reliable as they come (like most things Russian-made).
 
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the yugo uses a captured spring, so changing it out would be more work, if it can be done, I forget if it's screwed or pinned in,

And I completely agree
the XR guy has completely DERAILED THIS THREAD WITH OFF TOPIC CONTENT
I would call him something, but I'm still carrying infractions for explaining to a newbie why she would be called a troll by an admin.
 
Thanks for the info, I think ill get it, i figure 165$ plus shipping its probably worth it. Ill post pics and a range report if i remember.
 
Be prepared for a lot of fun. You'll enjoy the the smooth shooting and the big blue flame out the muzzle.

A far as sights, the rear should be drift adjustable.
 
There are JHP loads available for the 7.62x25 - S&B makes them. It would have to be one tough bullet to not expand at the speed that bullet will be traveling. I wouldn't buy one as a primary defensive weapon because there are better options, but if I had one I'd try the JHP's in it and keep a magazine loaded with them if they were reliable.
 
I think xr1200 is here for the sole sake of arguing, the poor spelling and deliberate refusal to post a citation are dead giveaways. It would be amusing if the text wasn't so hard to read ... seriously, Firefox has built-in spell-check XR ... there's no excuse for lousy spelling in this day and age, and it marks you as someone just looking for a fight.

Back to the actual topic ... M91/30, I hope you have a blast with your new toy, remember to take precautions for corrosive ammo and you might want to double up hearing protection if shooting on a small indoor range.

I forgot that Ol' Painless over on the Box O Truth did a review:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu59.htm
It is even on a Romanian model, I'm not sure if different importers did different things to make them importable, though, it might not be an exact match for the one you're looking at.

You nkow what, I'm picking up a Tok too next time I come across one, and getting a nice holster for it while I'm at it, just to annoy the naysayers.
 
What is SOG?

Enough acronyms already!

Oh, and for what it's worth, the 7.62x25 might the best of the underutilized cartridges. My CZ-52 is accurate, reliable (as in 2000+ rounds without failure) and fun. AND CHEAP!
 
Speaking of Wolff springs, I got their replacement recoil spring (standard weight) for my Romanian Tok, and man! I didn't realize how far gone my old recoil spring was, it made the old girl handle even better. It actually tightened up my groups by about .5 to .75 of an inch. Now when I release the slide, it snaps forward with authority and feels much more consistant during recoil.
 
SOG is having a special deal on romanian tokarevs and I'm thinking I just might get one. What am I to expect when i get it? are they is decent condition?

I bought one from SOG last summer and am pleased with it. It is a bit rougher in fit & finish than I hoped, but I was spoiled by my first 2 TT-33s being of Polish MFR. Its F&F is closer to that of my WW2 Soviet TT-33s.

There was no cosmo on the piece but I did a detail-strip/clean/inspection as my first order of business and all of the components were in good shape.
 
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