Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tony Blair has turned Britain into a land where we are all prisoners

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Lucky, Jun 13, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Lucky

    Lucky Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,919
    Location:
    Calgary, near Rocky Mountains - Canada
    I'm leery of both 'trial balloons' and GPS now. I remember last year when they were just testing the concept of puttin GPS trackers in every car there, now it's policy.

    I'm thus equally leery of GPS trackers put in cars and cellphones, and sold as features, over here.

     
  2. Titan6

    Titan6 member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,745
    Location:
    Gillikin Country
    Good to know that freedom is alive and well on Airstrip One.
     
  3. AndyC

    AndyC Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    2,581
    Location:
    DFW, TX
    Just like at Las Vegas airport, I imagine.
     
  4. jselvy

    jselvy member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    518
    But its for your own good.
    Just take it easy and acquiesce like Mr. Luddite say, and it won't hurt at all.


    Jefferson
    The preceding post was sarcasm
     
  5. Jim K

    Jim K Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    17,751
    We should join the liberals in opposing more of that sort of thing here - we have too much of it already. I just wish the same people who claim to be fighting for civil liberties weren't always the ones fighting on the side of our nation's enemies.

    Jim
     
  6. Lucky

    Lucky Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,919
    Location:
    Calgary, near Rocky Mountains - Canada
    If they see people in favour of freedom re: guns are also in favour of freedom in the things they like, they might stop fearing.
     
  7. elrod

    elrod Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    697
    Location:
    Heart of the Heart of Dixie
    It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to substute the name of G.W. Bush for Tony Blair and see what our future holds! They are buds, after all! But I forget, G.W. only has two more years. Thank God for small miracles!:eek:
     
  8. jparham

    jparham Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    940
    Polish Potatoes?
     
  9. Marshall

    Marshall Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    5,569
    Location:
    Oklahoma, Green Country
    Jim, best post I have read today. +1
     
  10. Titan6

    Titan6 member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,745
    Location:
    Gillikin Country
    It is a misperception that liberals seek freedom.

    In the US most liberals these days seek entitlements and increased security. Most freedoms sought revolve around personal freedoms that will allow them to moarlize legislation in the fashoin they see fit (much like the right). True freedom seekers among modern liberals is a rarity.
     
  11. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,096
    Actualy Lucky I am sorry to give you the bad news, but it is already the law here. We have this standard called "E-911" which requires that all mobile phone providers can track and locate people at all times in case of emergency. This feature does not magicly became available when a 911 call is placed and so is always being done. This is how they have caught numerous criminals not even using thier phone simply by tracking the location of thier cell phone.

    Some years ago it became the law. The precision of the tracking went from the size of a field, to within a couple feet pretty fast. It is now the law that anyone with a cell phone can be tracked at any time in order to be E911 compliant. So if big brother wishes to locate anyone at any time or track thier movements using a cell phone they can. In fact you could create databases to track the movements of all cell phone carrying people via software if it was desired. In addition look up "roving bug" which is a technique which allows people to use the microphone in a cell phone to listen to all nearby conversation even when the phone is not in use and even turned off (as long as it has battery power.) It first came to public attention when mentioned in court by the FBI. Prior to that they had tried to keep it hidden from the public as that helps keep it an effective technique.

    In fact with things like http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/04/70619 (classified room installed in AT&T to monitor the flow of all traffic) http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/307/mark-klein.html such actions would not be out of the ordinary.

    One of the interesting things about the Patriot Act is that federal law enforcement can now be secret police. It is illegal to mention to people if they pursue information. It is interfering with investigations of national security to expose requests of information or the installation of equipment to spy on people by the federal government. It is pretty scary stuff. However this is why you do not see the big companies like AT&T or Verizon talking about such things and when approached issue comments like "we will not comment on issues of national security" because thier teams of lawyers have advised them of the law. One of the most important checks and balances in out system was ousted. Now only the occasional employee or small company not strictly adhering to the law slips up and exposes widespread wiretaping like in: http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/17/bush.nsa/

    The installation of Narus STA 6400s and other such devices at the largest of our communication headquarters makes "wiretaping" almost an obsolete practice. Watching everything at all times in an attempt to find things rather than finding things and then pursuing them individualy is the new direction our government is taking.

    You may think "well luckily I do not use that company and use ____.
    Well that is were you are mistaken, you see most smaller providers actualy piggy back on the networks of larger providers sharing a lot of the same networks. So by simply targeting the largest the federal government can monitor the majority of people whether they use that particular provider or not.

    I only wish this was all some 'guy with a tinfoil hat' dream.

    But long story short, anyone that wishes to can already track you at any time through your cell phone. And in the near future if not already they will be doing it even if they do not have a specific interest in you. After all logging the location of every citizen would leave wonderful records that could later be used if needed for criminal investigations. So it would make us all safer in the end :rolleyes:

    Do a search on videos in the UK. You will find endless real time traffic cams you can watch over the net from anywhere in the world (a terrorists dream I am sure) and articles with cameras that follow criminals being pursued throughtout a city. You think that is thier only use? They have cameras linked to very sensative microphones that listen to people routinely supposedly to make people safer by listening for a rise in agitation in voices or key words. http://soundandlightreflections.blogspot.com/2006/12/aggressive-speech-detection-and-cctv.html (so they obviously listen to everyone all the time, and they can actualy pinpoint or focus on a single conversation from over 100 yards away)
    They have ones that talk to people: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/5353538.stm
    They even fine people for swearing on occasion: http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?in_article_id=17006&in_page_id=2
    In fact the lists goes on and on.
     
  12. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2004
    Messages:
    7,377
    Location:
    CA
    Well, Britain doesn't really belong to the British anymore. They've let in so many hostile foreigners (mostly radical Islamists), and they're way too PC touchy feely to do anything about it.

    Sucks to be them.
     
  13. samtechlan

    samtechlan Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    270
    Location:
    USA
    Speaking of conservative/liberal alliances, on certain issues Bob Barr, former congressman from GA and NRA Bd member has formed alliances with ACLU types on issues like privacy and unreasonable searches. As long as we keep our eyes wide open we can cooperate with liberals on other issues.
     
  14. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    20,649
    Location:
    Alma Illinois
    We're not there yet.

    Zoogster said;
    A good theory, but it doesn't work out that way in real life. I've had 911 centers miss a cell phone location by more then a mile, once I was sent to the tower that picked up the cell signal, not the location of the cell phone that made the 911 hangup.

    An ONSTAR call made in behalf of a stranded motorist missed his location by 4 miles on the interstate. He was that far from the mile marker ONSTAR's operator gave the dispatcher.

    It's not quite as bad as you think and given the cost of making the technology that good, I hardly think you'll see sufficient funds diverted from entitlement programs to make it a reality in our lifetime. There are still large parts of rural America that have almost no cell phone coverage.

    Jeff
     
  15. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,096
    A lot of it depends on the local cell network. More rural areas have older technology and companies are slower to update services used by fewer customers. In cities it can be pinpoint accurate because there is so many cells that triangulation can be performed constantly and a phone will almost always see more than a single cell location at a time.

    Regardless the law is there and they have to upgrade. The deadline has been pushed back a couple times, but a few heavy fines and people quickly become compliant or go bankrupt and sell out to a bigger provider who does become compliant. With GPS technology becoming more standard the occasional issues seen by triangulating signals as you mention will cease entirely even in rural locations with few cells. Triangulation as the name implies requires a phone to see 2 seperate cell towers to pinpoint the exact location. If only a single one can be seen then the location is less precise (if it does not have gps or other independent tracking capabilities.) As this can be the case in more rural locations, it is being fixed by only offering service to compliant phones.

    http://www.fcc.gov/911/enhanced/releases.html You will see people applying for waivers as they bring thier systems into compliance. Localy many services just became entirely compliant. They even had people turn in some old phones for free replacements with compliant models, while ending service gradualy to non compliant models. Notice the date on most of the requests on the FCC page is over a year ago. Many of them end around this month. So keep in tune with "orders" section and you will see who still has parts of thier system out of date.
    National compliance is quickly becoming a reality, far from the not a "...reality in our lifetime."
     
  16. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    20,649
    Location:
    Alma Illinois
    Isn't ONSTAR a GPS based system? Supposedly from what our local E911 board says, we are already in compliance, but we still get those errors. The system doesn't work that well in rural areas. Having a little experience with GPS in the Army, I can tell you that there are a lot of places where those small phones aren't going to pick up enough satellites to pinpont their location. Just not enough antenna. I personally think we're wasting money on these systems because as the phones get smaller they require a stronger signal to work. I think part of the problem we're experiencing is that, the phones aren't getting enough satellites to get a good fix.

    Jeff
     
  17. mons meg

    mons meg Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    727
    Location:
    Logan County, OK
    Don't want to be tracked? Anyone who's watched the Sopranos knows you just go get a pre paid phone off the rack and pay cash..... DUHHH. ;)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page