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Too much crimp??

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by vjay, May 13, 2009.

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  1. vjay

    vjay Member

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    Hello, finally I reloaded my first 380acp batch.

    Don't know how much crimp do I really need, here is a pic. Please tell me what you people think, have a higher resolution pic if needed.

    I'am using a lee 3 die set on a single stage press (lee breech lock challenger), so my seating and crimping are made on the same step.

    Well, I had a very hard time adjusting overal length and crimp, don't know if its normal. Maybe I should get a FCD??

    BTW, all these loads are plinkers.


    Thanks.
    Jay
     

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  2. supham

    supham Member

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    My first impression is it looks like a little too much. I tend to crimp very little... just enough to remove the bell I put on it. However, I don't load for the .380 yet. Looking forward to hearing what others have to say.
     
  3. Martyk

    Martyk Member

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    Way too much. I only crimp about .003~.005" When your starting out, it's always good to have some factory loads around that you can take measurements off of and compare visually just to double check yourself. Of course that's only as a back up after you make your ammo to the specs in your reloading manual.
     
  4. Steve H

    Steve H Member

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    looks to me like too much. is the cola correct? looks long
     
  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Way too much crimp. Back off the seater, then re adjust the seater plug.
     
  6. Yo2slick

    Yo2slick Member

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    I would take a fresh resized case and use it to set the seating die. I put the empty case in the shellholder, run the ram all the way up and start to screw the die body (not the seater plug) into the press. You will notice the shell will run inside of the die, when the die stops (finger tight) then stop there. You can turn it just a little bit further for a slight crimp but that is a good starting point.

    You cant crimp very tightly with an auto loading pistol cartridge because it headspaces off the case mouth. With a revolver you would be applying a roll crimp which is another story. The neck tension from the case and maybe a very tiny bit of crimp should be perfect for that round. The Factory Crimp die in my opinion is just a bandaid. Once you set your die correctly you will no longer consider the Factory Crimp Die, atleast I dont.
     
  7. vjay

    vjay Member

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    @Steve
    OAL = 0.975"
    But first rounds where sized little long (.980) or small (.970) since I have some troubles adjusting seating die..



    I'll reduce crimp for next batch, so what does a good crimp look like?

    Would be safe to shoot these loads?
     
  8. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    :)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  9. vjay

    vjay Member

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    Thanks Yo2slick, I'll try that.
     
  10. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    Sorry, a photo of a roll crimp won't help.

    :)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  11. AMBASSADOR

    AMBASSADOR Member

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    I too reload .380 with Lee dies,buy the LEE factory crimp die and reload happily ever after.
     
  12. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    Wow!! Way way too much....

    Doesn't need the Lee FCD. The seating die he has is more then just fine. All he has to do is back it off a bit so it JUST removes the case mouth bell and maybe a kiss more...
     
  13. vjay

    vjay Member

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    Thanks everyone for replying and helping me out.

    One more thing, it's ok to shoot that ammo? It may cause overpressure or something like that? I'am using min loads.


    Thanks.
    jay
     
  14. Yo2slick

    Yo2slick Member

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    VJAY, I posted these pics of my 9mm cartridges. Not the best pics but hope they help.

    9mmDummy2.jpg

    9mmDummy.jpg
     
  15. Yo2slick

    Yo2slick Member

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    I dont think you will be able to shoot those rounds, I dont think they will headspace correctly at all. I would probably pull them just to be safe.
     
  16. vjay

    vjay Member

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    Thanks for the pictures yo2slick, I think you are right, better play safe here. I'll pull them and save those precious primers.


    Thanks for the help so far everyone.
     
  17. editingfx

    editingfx Member

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    Wellllll, I'm one of the suckers who went with the FCD, and while I agree it really isn't necessary, it does make the setup really easy to adjust when you change boolits. Found I cut my "setup" run of (empty) cartridges in half by having separate seat & crimp.

    As for proper crimp, using the FCD you can adjust it so it just barely kisses the case mouth, leaving a slight, almost imperceptible bevel on the mouth. Set that way, when I pull plated bullets out of the case, there's almost no crimp line on the boolit. Yet all the belling is gone.
     
  18. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    His seater/crimp die can be adjusted the same way. If he wants to buy an extra die, he can, but it is not necassary.

    Here are some .45 reloads that show how much crimp I use. Just enough to remove any belling, and a hair more. I used a seperate crimp only die in the 5th station of my projector. I don't remember which brand offhand, but it is not an FCD, I can assure you.
     
  19. editingfx

    editingfx Member

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    But with a single seat/crimp, ya gotta move the entire die to change crimp, which changes seat.... (lol... just kicking sand).
     
  20. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    It is important to remember that the .380 ACP headspaces on the case mouth.
    A roll crimp should never be used.

    The taper crimp should do no more then remove the case mouth bell and return the case straight again.

    The mouth of the case should measure no less then .370" at most.

    SAAMI spec is .373".

    rc
     
  21. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    Walkalong, EXCELLENT photo ... that brass looks perfect ... not a scratch, dent or ding to be seen ... is it new brass?

    vjay, in the photos below you can see the difference between a taper crimp (.45 ACP) and a roll crimp (.45 Colt) both from the side view and the top view. When I set up my RCBS dies to load .45 ACP over fifteen years ago now, I did what Walkalong described but I also checked the crimp by looking down the length of the loaded road from the business end. If you can't see a clearly defined case "mouth" then you're probably over crimping. If you look at the top/side view of the .45 Colt load you'll notice that there isn't a clearly defined case mouth. I've shot something on the order of 8,000 to 10,000 reloads through my SIG P220 without a single failure so I figure I must be doing something right.

    The photos below show three different .45 ACP cases and a .45 Colt load for comparison.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    :)
     
  22. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Tumbled range brass, although I did hand pick ones for a pic. Good looking reloads yourself. :)
     
  23. Knucklehead2

    Knucklehead2 Member

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    Vjay, I can see in the picture what appears to be a groove in the bullet usually associated with a roll crimp, maybe the source of confusion. They may look a little weird when you crimp them to the correct size, the size rcmodel gave you in post #20.
     
  24. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I agree it does appear to be a revolver bullet with a crimp groove.

    Semi-auto pistol bullets normally have no crimp groove or cannulure for a roll crimp.

    But you can't use it for a crimp with a semi-auto pistol round that headspaces on the case mouth.

    rc
     
  25. something vague

    something vague Member

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    Crimping in a different step from seating the bullet is the easiest way to go in my experience. When I tried to crimp and seat in the same step I would always struggle to seat the last bit of the bullet before the crimping would start. Sometimes I actually ended up shaving a tiny amount of bullet but most of the time just ran into a bullet that seated with too much resistance and COAL would vary on me. And just as everyone else has stated, just a kiss of a taper crimp is all that is need, if that much at all.
     
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