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Took my CCW class today...these people scare me

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Min, Jun 21, 2003.

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  1. Min

    Min Member

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    Class of 16...1 woman, all others men.

    We were all asked to go up to the front of the class to go through the motions of loading, chambering, decocking (if applicable), dryfiring, and releasing magazine (all with empty guns). These guys were all holding the guns with shaky hands, and fumbling with the basic moves to the point that made me think they should not be having firearms at all. One guy racked his slide by putting his hand in front of his muzzle and pushing back...with his finger on the trigger.

    3/4 of them had finger on the trigger problem. The instructor had to tap them on the back of the head to remind them. You do it once it's a tap. Twice it's a harder tap. A third time you go home.

    Several brought guns so new they were still in the plastic wrap...obviously never shot them until today at class.

    One guy had no magazine for his Springfield 1911.

    One Renewal lady was so uncomfortable with her semi-auto (a really nice Smith and Wesson, too) she could barely stand to hold it. The motions described above took minutes...

    So, these are the TX CCW...
     
  2. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Hey, it's no better at some racing driver schools, either. The attitude is different, but the skill levels--er, leave something to be desired...

    People don't change. At the time of the squabbling over the Gun Control Act of 1968, I watched folks come in to my local gun store to buy a handgun "while they still could". After the rather nervous salesman would show them how to load and unload the new Precious Object, he would suggest buying a box of El Cheapo practice ammo, plus a box of self-defense ammo.

    The common response from Mr. or Miz. Know Nuttin was, "Oh, can't I buy just six bullets?"

    Art
     
  3. Glamdring

    Glamdring Member

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    Sounds like they need a gun saftey class first.

    MN just became a shall issue state end of last month :D

    I only saw one gun handling mistake. One guy was shooting a 1911 and he had weak hand thumb wrapped around the grip (you know where if it gets to high the slide will cut in recoil). He shot the qualifier without drawing his own blood, so maybe he is used to shooting that way??
     
  4. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Member

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    A fellow I know was an instructor at Gunsite. They planned for rank beginners in their Basic Pistol Class. It goes with the territory.

    Pilgrim
     
  5. Moparmike

    Moparmike Member

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    Where can I look for a basic pistol class? I havent had lots of experience handling one and would like to get some detailed instruction even though I know the rules and are not 'afraid of' or 'uncomfortable with' the inanimate object.

    I also need to get in touch with my uncle and see about some plinking with his pistol.

    Thanks for any advice!
     
  6. Duncan Idaho

    Duncan Idaho member

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  7. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    You think you got it bad in my state they turn people loose with concealed weapons with NO training or permits required at all...

    WildscaryaintitAlaska
     
  8. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

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    WildscaryaintitAlaska,

    Not really. :p
     
  9. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Ya got more than me then :)

    WildyouareanightowltooAlaska
     
  10. Kevlarman

    Kevlarman Member

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    I just came back from my first NRA basic pistol class today. I consider myself an experienced shooter, but no where near being a "pro."

    Anyways, there were only four of us in the class, and each one of use was less than 25 years old. A boyfried/girlfriend couple came just because they might be interested in buying a handgun soon.

    The other female encountered a handgun at her boyfriend's place, so she took the class in order to learn what to do when she finds a gun just laying around.

    The instructors were a husband/wife couple in their mid 50s. I was expecting a crotchety old croon yelling at us to "keep our finger off the trigger" or slap the muzzle out of their faces. That was far from the truth. They took their time and explained to each one of us the basic gun handling routines. The instructors even went around and told the other students that I was already experienced, and called upon me to do some demonstrations and whatnot. :cool:

    I find it odd that the young ones were so calm and cool about handling firearms; a lot of the older folks I've seen at the range handled them a lot worse. :confused:
     
  11. Walther P99

    Walther P99 Member

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    When I took my CHL class, there was an older woman who (the only female in the class I think) who I heard just barely passed the range test by 3 points (250 total). She obviously had very little firearm training; but the kicker was that she was quite rude and bitchy throughout the class...

    Nightowls are everywhere. :)
     
  12. Sylvilagus Aquaticus

    Sylvilagus Aquaticus Member

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    It's sometimes as bad here in Dallas also. One applicant in my CHL class had a new in the box, still in plastic wrap Kahr .40. Never had touched it (which may have been a good thing). Had to be de-gunked before she could run the firing sesson. On several occasions the instructor had to sidetrack just to answer hypothetical questions from left field that she would constantly ask. She was on the range (indoor) after I was and she hit the target carrier 3x. We were making bets on whether she hit it a fourth time or if they would eject her. As it was, they passed her... on her second run through of the firing course.

    That instructor is a cadidate for sainthood in my o(p)inion.

    Regards,
    Rabbit.

    edited: I usually proofread my stuff; this one slipped, but then again, it's 0300 and I'm trying to watch some weird Japanese monster movie and type, too.
    Rabbit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2003
  13. Dorian

    Dorian Member

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    In your oinion, huh? Sir, could you please point to your oinion for me?

    Only a story from my CCW instructor... Actually two.

    First is the woman he was telling me about. She was really nervous and couldn't keep her finger off the trigger. While they were taking their turns shooting, she was up, gun fully loaded, and turned around pointing her gun at everyone asking a question. Needless to say she was given more personal instruction after everyone else had gone.

    Second, my ccw instructor said something that scared me. He told me that out of the two years and several hundered shooters he had qualified, I was one of only five that shot a perfect score. Perfect meaning I got them all in the black..........

    Oh well.... When someone says "I have a concealed weapon!", just tell em to keep it that way and you'll take care of the situation! :rolleyes:
     
  14. Nathaniel Firethorn

    Nathaniel Firethorn Member

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    [​IMG]
    Oninion n. A mutated vegetable standing two meters high. Used by some to scare the heck out of cats.

    "I conceal a Smith 629 and a Mossberg pump in my oninion. They smell bad afterward, but no one bothers them."

    - pdmoderator
     
  15. ACP230

    ACP230 Member

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    I was in a large CCW class about three years ago. I saw no extremely lousy gun handling and everyone shot pretty well.
    Of course, I live in a rural area where a large percentage of the population shoots, hunts, or both.

    There were four women out of the 40 attendees. One had a North American Arms .22 revolver a relative had given her. She started the range portion shooting it, but only hit the paper about two for five. She switched to a .38 snubnose revolver the instructor had along and did quite a bit better.

    There were some older men in the class who shot with single action revolvers. I was behind them in line and quickly concluded that I wouldn't want them to shoot at me.

    I saw one of the participants when I went downtown a couple of weeks after the class. I had my permit and was carrying, I assumed he was packing too. It didn't bother me at all.
     
  16. Apple a Day

    Apple a Day Member

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    16 more people who have taken the time to get some training. That's 16 more than there were before (or 15 + Min whose neck is probably sore from shaking his head in disbelief).
    When I took my course there were only 4 of us in the class. That was before 9/11 , though. My license actually came in the mail on Sept. 11th.
     
  17. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Wild Alaska sez:

    Oh, so you mean they let people have guns just like specified in that old dusty Constitution thing I read about in elementary school???

    The government does not have any business whatsoever in establishing standards or requirements for lawful carry of firearms.

    Training is a personal matter. If you choose not to train, thats fine, as long as you dont mind being a bad shot and potentially unsafe.

    The lack of safety on the part of other gun owners doesnt necessarily bother me. Its part of the inherent risk of a free society.
     
  18. MLH

    MLH Member

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    You must remember

    That most people are nervous getting up in front of a lot of strangers (remember giving speeches in high school?:eek: ), so you have to give them a little slack. I still get nervous when I have to do this, but I am a lot better than then because now I don't care what they think of me;). If you were standing in front of all the THR's members talking instead of typing you might fumble a few words since you don't have the time to run a spell check one your ramblings.:uhoh: :D
     
  19. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    How is this possible? These people all owned firearms, thus they must be competent gun handlers.:rolleyes:

    You mean someone else, besides that whiny little squirrel El Tejon, is going on a training kick? That's outrageous. I own guns, I don't need to learn anything.:scrutiny:
     
  20. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    Min & all;

    In the mid '60's I was introduced to concealed carry with these (to the best of my memory) instructions: Take this sumb!tch (a Colt Detective Special in a leather holster on a web belt) & wear it under yer class A's. An if I ever hear anybody's ever seen the sumb!tch, I'm gonna rip you a new *******.

    I was told this by an NCO in the U.S. Army, approx 6" from my face in an elevated tone of voice. Accompanied by halitosis.

    Although I've been carrying for over 35 years, nobody's 'made' me that I know of. Multiple states have honored the Army's instructions. I've never had to take a qualification course in order to get my carry license. Perhaps I should, just to see 'the state of the art' in concealed carry instruction. But there's something to be said for fear factor also. Not that I'm recommending it as a new wave instruction method, the drop out rate might climb.

    900F
     
  21. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine Member

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    When Texas first came out with the "hoops" we were going to be required to jump through to get a carry license license I was almost 100% against all the BS.

    Why the hell did I need to take two days and spend all that money to learn something I already knew?
    I had been a LEO, a USMC Sergeant, a Army officer and I could probably shoot better than 90% of the LEO's on the street.
    I knew the laws.

    Now, I am 100% for the "hoops", except it still costs too much but I can see it being self funding.

    I think every law abiding citizen has the right to own and carry a gun but with this right comes a big responsibility.

    The responsibility to aquire the knowledge to own and carry with safety and some degree of skill.

    I think it's outrageous when you read, in a gun magazine, where a man (not in Texas) with a CHL is asking what he does if stopped by a LEO.

    If it was up to me the gun handling and shooting requirements for getting and renewing a CHL would be a lot more stringent.

    For instance, a minimum amount of gun handling knowledge and hopefully some shooting skill before taking the CHL class.

    Require that the person actually get some shooting practice before their next 4 year renewal. I think we all know that many people never shoot their gun in the whole 4 years between CHL classes.

    I really don't want more "hoops" written in the laws.
    The only way I see to better the situation is for us shooters to go out of our way when ever we can, to try and help these new people learn.

    I'm lucky enough to have a shooting range at home and I have an almost open invitation, to practice, for "friends of friends" that are going for their CHL.

    When you run across these uninformed people, instead of just criticizing them for their lack of gun knowledge, see if there's a way you can help them.
    Tell them where they can get training or offer to help them.
    Invite them to the range to practice with your help.
    Hell, if you get the impression that they can't afford a box of bullets, buy them a box for practice.

    The more knowledgable shooters, the better off we all are.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2003
  22. brookstexas

    brookstexas member

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    What scares me etc

    My carry class in Austin Texas was awesome, maybe twelve shooters, 3 women who all shot very well. Not one goof in the bunch, it became a "Who is the best shot" contest more than anything.

    What scares me more than the concealed carriers is the local cops I see on the range. Never heard of Jeff Cooper etc., Safety? Finger off trigger? Muzzle control?
    Most don't shoot as well as the folks there for fun shooting either.
    Not a slam on cops just an observation about the ones I've seen in this town.
     
  23. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    brookstexas, when we first started the old Hill Country Practical Pistol Club, we had a freebies deal for any active LEO. No entry fee at the matches, and a revolver-only class if appropriate.

    No takers. None, in almost three years.

    A gunsmith buddy of mine wound up with the "privilege" of cleaning the carry-pistol of an Austin PD Captain. The .38 snubbie hadn't been out of its leather holster in over ten years. It took most of an afternoon to get the cylinder open and unloaded.

    A buddy of mine instructs for CHL at the DPS-approved range I have. By and large, most of his students have had some working knowledge of what they're doing, insofar as hitting the target. Few have any sort of tactical understanding of defensive use.

    Art
     
  24. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I'd like to make a point .....

    A lot of people who show up for CCW classes are indeed ..... well lets say "badly lacking in knowledge and skills." But before "shall issue" laws were passed with training requirements these people usually didn't receive any instruction at all. Bad as the system may (or may not) be it is better to get to these folks then to not. Hopefully most will complete the course in better shape then when they came in, and because of that we are all better off.
     
  25. HankB

    HankB Member

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    When I took my CHL class in Austin, I was the only one who properly "cleared" his pistol when the instructor asked us to place them on the table at the beginning of class. One woman didn't know how to operate her pistol at all, but when the instructor cleared it, it was found to be fully loaded. :eek:

    I was the only one in the class that actually shot a "perfect" score (250/250) but was only credited with a 249. Seems that same woman missed her target entirely several times, and one of her errant shots ended up in the vicinity of the navel on my silhouette target.

    She still - barely - passed. (BTW, the test is NOT very demanding. If you can hit a dinner plate at 3, 5, and 15 yards, with generous time limits, you should be able to "clean" the test. 180 is passing, and 200 of the points are accounted for at the 3 and 5 yard lines.)

    The scarey thing is that in TX, the qualification requirements are based generally on what it takes a police officer to qualify . . . which isn't much.
     
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