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Top 10 Battle Rifles

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Molon Labe, Nov 20, 2006.

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  1. Molon Labe

    Molon Labe Member

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    Military Channel's Top 10 Battle Rifles:

    10 - M14
    9 - Sturmgewehr 44
    8 - 1903 Springfield
    7 - Steyr AUG
    6 - Mauser K98k Carbine
    5 - FN FAL
    4 - M1 Garand
    3 - Lee Enfield SMLE
    2 - M16
    1 - AK47

    Would you agree with this ranking?

    Personally, I would put the M14, FAL, and M1 higher in the list.
     
  2. UglyGlock

    UglyGlock Member

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    based on what? numbers issued?
     
  3. iamkris

    iamkris Member

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    Their criteria was flawed in my opinion.

    1) They used "Service Length" as a strange measure of how good a rifle was
    2) They did some bizarre rankings of "Combat Effectiveness" (how is an 03 Springfield "low", a 98K "average"? How is a FAL "average" but an M14 "excellent"?)
    3) A AUG was even in the running? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    The Tuesday Nov 14 blog entry of Chris Byrne on Anarchangel does a pretty good job of summing up my thoughts

    http://anarchangel.blogspot.com/
     
  4. browningguy

    browningguy Member

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    Well you had to watch the show to really understand their reasoning. A lot of the score has to do with time in service, numbers issued, importance to military doctrine. Rifles like the M1 and M14 lose a lot due to the relatively short time they were an issue weapon. The M16 for example is 40 now, and the AK was standard issue in some countries for almost 50 years.Even though it may not be as accurate, or as finely built as others the AK is probably the most recognized firearm in the world, heck, it's even on some national flags.
     
  5. ribbonstone

    ribbonstone Member

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    Seems they pretty much got the order right based on their criteria....change the criteria, and the results would change.
     
  6. RNB65

    RNB65 Member

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    Drop the M14 and add the Mosin-Nagant.
     
  7. mbt2001

    mbt2001 Member

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    I am surprised that the M1 carbine isn't in their...
     
  8. No_Brakes23

    No_Brakes23 Member

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    I think the -14, (Of which I am no fan,) has more of a claim to the list than the AUG. If you are gonna kick an auto-loader off the list in favor of a bolt, lose the AUG.

    But the Nagant certainly deserves consideration.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2006
  9. SoCalShooter

    SoCalShooter Member

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    That's for me to know and not you!
    No. I disagee this is a poor list. For me I would rate a rifle on different criteria. Sturmgewer and the aug dont make the list for me.

    1. Combat effectiveness (according to troops)
    2. Reliability in combat

    If these were the criteria. My list would be

    1. AK and its varients
    2. Springfield 1903
    3. Gewehr k98
    4. Mosin Nagant
    5. Enfield Mk3
    6. M1 Garand
    7. m16 and all its flavors
    8. m14 / M1a
    9. Springfield .58caliber musket
    10. FN FAL
     
  10. MountainBear

    MountainBear Member

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    I'm sorry, but any list that doesn't have the M-1 Garand as number one has to be flawed. Something about some guy calling it "the greatest battle implement ever invented"? Something tells me Patton knew what he was saying...
     
  11. John-Melb

    John-Melb Member

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    To assess the greatest battle rifle you've got to assess it's use in combat real situations.

    The most major war in living memory is World War 2.

    The first significant defeat suffered by German land forces was inflicted by soldiers using the No1 Mk 3 SMLE. It was at a place called Tobruk.

    The first significant defeat suffered by Japanese land forces was inflicted by soldiers using the No1 Mk 3 SMLE. It was a place called Imita Ridge.

    In both case the rifles used were made at Lithgow.

    .303 - for when you absolutely have to put the son of a bitch down!
     
  12. kd7nqb

    kd7nqb Member

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    Mountain Bear- What was Pattons view on the M16 or even the AK-47. Sorry new models do occasionally appear.
     
  13. eab

    eab Member

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    I personaly don't see even why the Springfield 1903 is on the list. Before you all call hertic on me let me explain. Yes it was an American rifle that served for a long time but in the end it was just a standard military bolt action of the time.

    So it was accurate and powerfull, so were Mausers and Mosin Nagents and most other military bolt rifles of the time.

    It was based off the Mauser for crying out loud. The Mauser parent company acutally sued for patient infringments in US courts and won.

    Mauser bolt action rifle yes, most copied military bolt action on the face of the earth I would say. Springfield, no.
     
  14. MountainBear

    MountainBear Member

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    Yes, they do, but I would argue this. The M-16 has had a long run, but I'm sorry. I've talked to soldiers. I will not debate the caliber, as that is a cna of worms I care not to open, however the complaint I have always heard is that it is not tough. Most, if not all, of the soldiers that I have talked to have used the example of the M-14 or M-1 being used as a step being held by two soldiers to help someone over a wall. They claimed that (and I would tend to agree) if you tried this with an M-16 (or clone, M-4, etc), it would at the least bend the buffer tube, at most break the plastic stock. The use of a rifle being used as a step is not a test of battle effectiveness, it does demonstrate toughness.
    As for the AK-47. It would be a close second to the M-1. It has the numbers edge. No one debates its toughness. I would argue that it is more of a spray and pray firepower weapon. Less accurate, more make the enemy keep his head down.
    I would argue the accuracy, the toughness, and the historical significance of the M-1 and its conflict (WWII, Korea) places it at the top of the list.
    I would hate to live on the difference if the AK had been in service in WWII.
     
  15. The_Shootist

    The_Shootist Member

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    Of Course

    If I was sent to hell...or another planet....and given ONE choice as to assault rife to carry, it would be the ONE...the ONLY AK-47!! :evil:
     
  16. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    Objectively, I don't agree with the AUG being included. If it were me, I think a much more deserving rifle would be the Swedish Mauser, or even going back further in time, the Krag.

    Personally, I hate the FAL. I know, I know, it is a good rifle that everyone but me loves, but I have just never liked them, and I probably never will. Again, this is only my personal opinion, but I think I would have not included the FAL in favor of something like the BAR, or even the K31 or SKS. Heck, I personally would place the AUG ahead of the FAL. Like I have said though, that is my personal opinion, not my objective one.

    Also, I don't disagree with the AK being #1, but I do disagree with the Garand not being higher. The AK is probably not the over-all finest battle weapon around, but it is the most ubiquitous of the group, and it does have a fine reputation for reliable service in pretty much all climates. Certainly, the Garand was more accurate, and in it's glory days, it was "the" battle rifle of choice. However, the Garand had nothing near the longetivity or the widespread dispersal of the AK, and for those reasons, I think the AK is probably good at #1. The Garand is a better weapon than the M-16, and I will go to my grave defending that statement. I am not an M-16 hater by any stretch of the imagination, and it probably does deserve to be on the list, but I just think the Garand is a better rifle. Specifically, I would probably just flip the Garand's and the M-16's positions, because the SMLE is one hell of a rifle.
     
  17. Shweboner

    Shweboner Member

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    The Steyr AUG? What the?

    If I made a top 25, that wouldn't even cross my mind.
     
  18. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    If length of service was a criteria the brown bess musket should have been included.
     
  19. cbsbyte

    cbsbyte Member

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    It would if the list was the top 25 fugly rifles ever made. :D



    Nope not true. Springfield knew before they build the first rifle that some of the 1903 designs infringed on several Mausers patents, so they sent the plans to Mauser who of course agreed that they did infringe on their rifle patents. They worked out an amicable deal where Springfield had to pay royalties for several years. It was DWM the inventer of the sptizer bullet that took the US military to court for design infringments for the 30.06 rifle bullet. DWM won in court after WWI, and the US Government had to pay hefty fines to basicaly buy the design off DWM.
     
  20. 12GA00buck

    12GA00buck Member

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    " Accuracy is average, but the Kalashnikov compensates for this with its ability to unleash a lethal wall of lead."

    Sounds like spray and pray to me. Funny, I thought shot placement was important.:D

    I think there should be seperate lists for battle rifles, assult rifles, and sniper rifles.
     
  21. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    What's a "battle rifle"? I usually include semi-automatic and select fire high powered combat rifles, from the Garand and SAFN to M-14 and FN-FAL. I don't usually think of bolt action war rifles as "battle rifles" per se.
     
  22. BobTheTomato

    BobTheTomato Member

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    As I see it you would look for weapons that changed the way people think. For instance the M1 was not in service that long but did show the huge advantage of semi auto over bolt. As I understand it after the Mauser came out almost everyone copied basics of the design and made their own version with a similar cartridge. The AK is the ultimate pesant weapon that can be fired by anyone. The M16 all I will say is the theory of the high velocity light round made the commies make the AK-74. Just some thoughts.
     
  23. Tom C.

    Tom C. Member

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    The M-1 and AK-47 are 1 and 2. You can argue the order all day.
    The Springfield with the ladder sight was a terrible battle rifle. The 1917 Enfield was much better and used by about 2/3 of American troops in WWI. After the war, it was retired early because the Springfield had windage adjustable sights and was a better range rifle.
    I don’t see why the AUG was included at all. What wars have been fought with this plastic fantastic?
    The M-16 is junk. Junk sufficiently engineered to work most of the time, with a substandard cartridge suitable for woodchucks and dogs.
     
  24. Cromlech

    Cromlech Member

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    The Steyr Aug was probably put in because of how innovative it was. Sure it wasn't the first ever bullpup, but probably was the first decent bullpup.
     
  25. carlrodd

    carlrodd Member

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    what about the sks? the russians may have dismissed it from service pretty quickly, but how does a weapon known as 'the rifle of revolution' to the rest of the third world not make it in? not to mention that it's easily one of the most proliferated firearms in history.
     
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