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Trailboss in a 303 Brit

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by challenger_i, Oct 2, 2009.

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  1. challenger_i

    challenger_i Member

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    Has any one used Trail Boss for a cast-bullet reduced load ?
     
  2. Gadzooks Mike

    Gadzooks Mike Member

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    There are a few loads for that over on loaddata.com for 30-30. I would think one of those would work for a 303 Brit as well. I use Unique in my 303 Sav, have never tried Trail Boss.
     
  3. challenger_i

    challenger_i Member

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    Since my discovery of Trail Boss, I have converted to it exclusively, in my 45 Colt, 45 ACP (loads for a Webly Mk V) and my .38 Smith&Wesson, with very satisfactory results.

    I had seen some cast load statistics, for Mil Surp cartridges, and most are low-volume powders. As Trail Boss is a high-volume, low-power propellant, I was curious as to its suitability in the 303 Brit, with a 170gr cast bullet.

    I'm shooting this in a really slick Martini Enfield, so I am really not too anxious to try working up a load. Right about now, I am REALLY missing my P-14 Enfield!!!
     
  4. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Hodgdon shows one 30-30 Trail Boss load with a 160 grain cast bullet.

    6.5 grain = 997 FPS @ 20,500 CUP.
    9.0 Max = 1,195 @ 29,100 CUP.

    A little extrapolation of case capacity's should get you in the ball park.

    rc
     
  5. navaide

    navaide Member

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    Trail Boss in rifle handloads using cast bullets with gas check:

    I started loading my 338/378 Weatherby cases with 85% volume Trail Boss, and a .338 cal 200gr. gas checked bullet. The powder weight works out at 31.5 grains.
    This combo is a hoot to shoot!
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2009
  6. Robyn

    Robyn Member

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    303 trail boss

    Hi
    I thought I would share this.
    303 british
    no4 mk1 rof
    9 g trail boss
    cci primer
    lee 185g w/w gaschecked alox lube

    first 15 shoots in 6 inch diameter at 200 yards...
    I am still working on this load
    but it looks great
     
  7. Kernel

    Kernel Member

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    :confused::confused::confused:
    I wonder why Hodgdon calls 9 grains a “Max“. Pressure is only 29,100 CUP. The .30-30 is good to 38,000 CUP. Pressure wise, is 9 grains of Trail Boss really a maximum, or is it just an arbitrary place where Hodgdon decided to stop load development?
     
  8. fireman 9731

    fireman 9731 Member

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    One of Trail Boss's best attributes is also its downfall. Its Bulk. You aren't supposed to compress it at all, so my guess is that 9grs in a 30-30 case is just about full.
     
  9. Kernel

    Kernel Member

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    ^^^^^
    That's what I first thought, but come on. A empty .30-30 case holds 45 grains of H2O. Trail Boss can be THAT bulky.
     
  10. Remo-99

    Remo-99 Member

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    And an empty 30-30 case holds 14 grains of Trail Boss when filled to the brim or ~12 grains powder capacity when allowing for seating a bullet. Therefore the IMR/Hodgdon listed max of 9 grains puts it at around the 75% of usable powder capacity.

    When developing a lead bullet TB load for my 308win, there was no data for it, so I took the starting load for 30-30 and added half a grain to allow for the larger case and worked up from there.
    A 308win has a full case of TB at 18 grains and powder capacity at ~15 grains. atm I'm at 14 grains with the load workup, but this seems to be moving further away from the accuracy point, where I found at 11 grains was the tightest groupings or approx 75% of powder capacity.

    In comparison the 303brit has a full case of TB at 16.5 grains and ~14.5 grains at powder capacity. 75% of this would be approx 10.8 grains. I would suggest start at 7 grains and work up from there (150gr to 180gr lead).

    btw, I found I didn't have need to use gaschecks with TB as it's a fairly low energy single based smokeless powder, but I am using lead bullets sized at .311" in a .308" barrel.
     
  11. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    Slug the barrel before you do anything else. Lee-Enfield barrels can measure between .311" and .315" and still be considered to be ok. Over .315" the barrel is shot out.
    Go here. http://www.303british.com/id16.html
    "...I thought I would share this..." Where did the data come from?
    Neither a .30-30 nor a .303 Savage have anything whatever to do with the .303 British.
     
  12. Kernel

    Kernel Member

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    Remo,

    Thanks for setting me straight. Trail Boss IS that bulky. Got me curious. So I went to Lee’s web site and got the density of Trail Boss from their VMD chart.

    Trail Boss is 0.2172 cc/gr. The inverse is 4.604 gr/cc.

    Water (H20) is 1 gram/cc. 1 gram = 15.43 grains. So, the density of H2O is 15.43 gr/cc.

    Volumetrically, a cc of TB per cc of H2O is 4.604/15.43 = 0.2984 gr TB/gr H20.

    An empty .30-30 case holds 45 grains of water.

    45 gr H20 x 0.2984 gr TB/gr H20 = 13.4 gr of Trail Boss

    Which is what you said (more or less) what a full .30-30 case would hold.

    Seat a 160 gr FN bullet (0.900” long) into that case, it holds 37.7 grains of water. A 80% load density is 30.2 grains. 30.2 x 0.2984 = 9.0 grains of Trail Boss. Exactly what Hodgdon said was the maximum load.

    A 58% load density is 21.9 grains H20, which equals 6.5 gr TB. Hodgdon’s starting load. Interesting. I think we cracked the “Trail Boss Formula”, at least how it relates to the .30-30 Winchester.

    Using this same methodology with .303 British, with the same 160 gr bullet, and a 2.800" COAL, the starting load would be 8.8 grains of Trail Boss (58% LD) and the max would be 12.2 grains (80% LD). Pressure would be no where near maximum. Velocity I’d guess to be somewhere around 1300 fps for the max load.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2009
  13. roo_ster

    roo_ster Member

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    So, there is hope for my .375H&H cast bullet load & TB and maybe even for my lead ball & TB load.
     
  14. 444

    444 Member

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    Probably not adding anything to the thread, but I worked up some subsonic .223 loads using Trailboss.
    I started using 77 grain bullets and everything went great. Then I went to 100 grain bullets and started getting huge swings in velocity.
    I didn't know that you couldn't compress Trailboss. I figured this out on my own and later read it.
    So basically I am just confirming that you don't want to compress Trailboss. I guess I should have done more research into the matter before blazing ahead.
     
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