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Transfer Fee Increase

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Ala Dan, Feb 17, 2007.

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  1. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    Greeting's All- Per Clay Simmons, CEO Simmons Sporting Goods
    2001 2nd Avenue North Bessemer, AL 35020 PX: (205) 425-4720

    In keeping pace with todays society, Simmons Sporting Goods
    of Bessemer, AL announces a new price increase on all tranfers.
    Effective 19 February 2007 the price of all tranfers will be a flat

    $50

    For a long time, we have held this fee steady at only $25; but the need
    has come for this slight increase. We hope that our patrons will certainly
    understand, and many thanks for your co-operation.
     
  2. zoom6zoom

    zoom6zoom Member

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    Doubling the price is a slight increase?
     
  3. GreenFurniture

    GreenFurniture Member

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    Good for them!

    Far too many "customers" take advantage of an FFL by abusing the ability to transfer out of courtesy.

    I wish more brick and mortar FFLs would take this stance.
     
  4. bogie

    bogie Member

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    Heck, doing all the crap, and keeping track of the paperwork involved... I'm surprised you stayed at $25 as long as you did...
     
  5. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    Yep, zoom6zoom My Friend-

    $25 is a slight increase considering the fact that someone might have a
    $1600 Weatherby MK-V transferred into our shop. Heck fire, most shops
    have had a $50 flat rate transfer fee for as long as I can remember~!;)
     
  6. CU74

    CU74 Member

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    Pawn Shops

    Check around with your local pawn shops. Many of them will charge less than gun shops for FFL transfers. I found one who only charges me $15.
     
  7. Rotty

    Rotty Member

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    WOW, considering the paperwork only takes about 5 minutes, the forms are free....thats $10 per minute, wish i could work at a job and get paid that much.
     
  8. Hemicuda

    Hemicuda member

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    DANG... my local FFL charges me $10.00 for transfers... I think I'll give him my firstborn and my sister as thanks...

    Ala Dan... I can understand the increase in price, but it is INSULTING to refer to a doubling of price as a "minor increase"...

    look at it this way... you price out a new pickup, optioned the way you want it... 4 full doors, 4X4, diesel engine, CD changer, bedliner, and all the goodies... it is $32,432.21... kinda pricey, but you and the family are worth it, so you go to order it...

    when it arrives, the salesman informs you of a SLIGHT price increase... to a MERE $64,864.42... still worth it?

    the numbers there are HUGE, but are the same PERCENTAGE of original...

    it is NOT the increase or the % of increase that is the problem foir me... it is the flippant reference to the doubling of price as "minor"... afterall, most of us work hard for our money!
     
  9. GreenFurniture

    GreenFurniture Member

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    Actually it takes an average of 20 minutes to conduct a 4473 transaction.

    And someone has to get paid to order them and receive them and then stock them. Then file them.

    Someone has to get paid to:

    Send out the FFL.

    Accept the package.

    Inspect the package.

    Log weapon in the Bound Book.

    Assist you with your 4473.

    Submit your information on the 4473 to NICS.

    Complete your transaction.

    Ring you up.

    File your 4473.

    Log out the weapon.

    And that is before you take into account that someone had to pay the BATFE for the FFL, pay for insurance, pay rent, utilities, taxes and so on.

    You must be a union guy.
     
  10. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    I think $50 is too much. I could perhaps see a $10 increase in your case. You charge your regular customers this or just new customers?? Anyway, at $50, I would probably shop elsewhere for all purchases if the dealer wanted $50 and some do... and so I don't buy anything from them.
     
  11. wooderson

    wooderson member

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    20 minutes for a 4473? Not in Texas (except for Cabela's, where I think they've got a family of semi-trained chimps in back running the forms).

    I don't blame anyone for charging as much as they can for transfers. It's too easy to go in, fondle what you like, order it online and get it delivered, cutting out the shop owner completely. I'd make it a two-stage deal, though - $50 for a new gun, $15-25 for a used gun or something the dealer just can't get.

    If someone else is willing to go cheaper, that's their right (and good for you for finding them), but being a gun store looks like a tough enough battle to me without cutting your own throat on transfers.
     
  12. thumper723

    thumper723 Member

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    Here is my take on it..

    The shop provides a service for a fee... That's fine.

    But here is the thing I noticed, when I lived in a smaller town. (I don't know where this shop is).

    The local shop was stupid expesive. They were "cutting you a deal" if they sold it to you for $20 less than MSRP. Nothing was ever in stock outside the most common stuff..

    So a lot of guys started ordering stuff online, and getting it shipped there. Transfers were $20. Still was cheaper. And just as fast, since nothing was in stock. Then they upped it to $60. YES $60. Well, that made buying from them the same as paying the outrageous fee.

    While it was a free market, it sucked for those of us there. Most of us just drove an hour to a better stocked store in the city after that..

    So now, instead of making $20 per gun, he made $0.
     
  13. Monkeybear

    Monkeybear Member

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    For the guy transfering a $1600 rifle its a slight increase. For the guy buying a Taurus of off Gun Broker for $300 its a huge increase. I guess they figure more people will pay double than will take their business elsewhere.

    Personally I have never bought a firearm online, and have several times paid as much as $100-200 (I like to buy lots of cheaper guns, which I sell to fund other purchases) more just to support local businesses. I spent over $5,000 locally on firearms this past year, with prices being 10-20% cheaper online.

    Every store I have been to charges either $20 or $25 for transfers. I wouldn't buy from a store that charged $50 for a transfer. Over here the market wouldnt support that high a price and it would seem insulting to me. Basically a sign saying "Not interested in doing your transfers". If your store was in Houston, and your prices weren't fantastic, I'd never go there again.

    On ther other hand if in your area everyone else is charging $50, then I guess thats just your local market. If the cheap transfer fee isn't bringing people into your store then I can't blame you for charging what everyone else charges. Its all relative.
     
  14. Cortland

    Cortland Member

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    My FFL charges $50 for NFA transfers, $25 for Title I transfers. $50 is justifiable for an NFA transfer, not so much for a regular transfer.
     
  15. Busta Prima

    Busta Prima Member

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    They could be trying to discourage people from doing mail order. Sometimes it's tough to compete with mail order. I feel for the "real" stores. But this isn't the way to do it.

    Or it could be that they don't want to be bothered. The best way to limit your clientele is to raise your prices. The overly loyal or rich will stay and pay and the rest go away. Everybody wins . . . well, except the rest that go away! :eek:
     
  16. karz10

    karz10 Member

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    I can understand a tiered structure for gun transfers, based on weapon type, retail cost, new vs used, or that anyone can charge whatever they want.

    I can also understand that a dealer would be irritated by a customer ordering something online that they could have bought locally, and that he feels he needs to recoup the money lost on the sale, or think they're giving the customer incentive to just buy from them, but it doesn't always work this way.

    I hope dealers see some other sides of this story. If I look online, if I look at other stores, and do research to learn how much a particular firearm is *worth* on the open market, and calculate the cost of shipping, transfer, sometimes w/out sales tax, compared to buying locally, I would like to think that the local dealer can offer some concessions on his retail price, or throw in some value added services to warrant working with them locally, to bring the overall value closer in line to what one could get same elsewhere.

    If they could get within $20-$30 on say a $500 purchase OTD, then I think most people would buy locally, or if they're $50 or more higher, if it's a range/dealer, maybe they could throw in free range time, or some ammo, or an accessory (magazine, holster, or something).

    But when the OTD cost of getting elsewhere is $50-$100 less than getting from the local dealer, after shipping, after FFL, etc., (which seems to be the case in my area), then don't you think a lot of customers would have to consider that? Then, if you bump your transfer to $50+ (like some have here), you might get the less knowledegable guy and/or the impulse buy guy, but here's a couple other things that can happen:

    1) The sale you did make, if they later think you steered them slightly wrong w/ the higher prices and higher FFL fees, and they learn they could have saved a lot of money on the gun or fees, they may not want to do business with you again, so you lost a repeat customer for future guns, accessories, ammo, etc.

    2) The smart shopper never buys the first gun from you, thinks you're trying to screw him, doesn't want to give you the business, doesn't want to let you do the FFL, doesn't buy future stuff from you.

    It's SO EASY (I own a business) to look at the tangible losses when faced with them, it's much harder to calculate the intangible losses that may be caused by our decisions.

    IMO, if a dealer can't get a particular weapon at a reasonable cost, he should reevaluate his buying power, or cost of overhead to see if there's a better way to be competitive. Aside from that, if he's still not competitive in the customer's eyes on a particular deal, and can't offer other value added services mentioned above, you should still work to gain the customer's trust, tell em straight, and offer competitive transfer fees. Again, IMO, I think this would either A) lead him to buy from you anyway, because you were fair with him, B) go ahead and get that one deal from another dealer or online, but let you do the FFL, allowing you to further build a relationship with the customer, C) in either case, you get him in the store more, make a slim $ off the transfer, or the sale, likely get him at POS (Point of Sale) to buy additional accessories, training classes, range time (whatever is applicable), as well as potentially gain a customer for a long time.

    Please someone tell me they see the logic in that. Otherwise, you might be shooting yourself in the foot, people become less trustful of the dealer, and go out of their way to buy online, or in my case a neighboring state, and use whatever pawn shop that offers the lowest FFL, it all becomes a commodity to them at that point, you know what happens to people who sell commodities, right? The margins only get slimmmer.

    I offered a local dealer a deal where I would buy a handgun and a shotgun, one deal was $900+tax, one deal (more expensive HG) was $1,000, which would have been close to what I could have done the deal online, or out of state, but still more buying from the more convenient local dealer, they couldn't get within $100-$150 on that two gun deal, and they want to charge $60 for a transfer. Why would I ever have a reason to go back there?

    My .02

    Karz
     
  17. Rem700SD

    Rem700SD Member

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    I think $50 is a fair deal. I know of one store in my area that charges 10% for transfers. I wonder how they stay in business, because they don't get mine!

    Dan
     
  18. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    $50 per transfer? Any competitor you have gets my business- ALL of it.
    Ammo, reloading supplies, whatever. And some FFL's wonder why we get C&R's and buy our ammo at Wal Mart. No one begrudges you making a profit, but keep this up and you'll keep Wal Mart in the gun business for a long time.

    A service that can be done in MINUTES, requires no inventory, no investment of capital, no salesmanship ability, and will get folks INTO your shop should be a no brainer for any FFL.

    I went looking for a FFL to do a couple of transfers last year here in the Dallas area. These guys are great:

     
  19. Bob R

    Bob R Member

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    I am not sure what happens at my dealer before I get there. I know he has to do something upon receiving the gun.

    But once I am there, I fill out the 4473, look at the gun, pay 25 dollars, ask how the hunting/weather/etc. has been. He doesn't have to make a phone call, my concealed license is my NICS number. I give him my 25 dollars, get in my car and drive home with my gun.

    Would I pay 50 dollars to do the same, probably not, I would find someone else to do the transfer.

    bob
     
  20. spankaveli

    spankaveli Member

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    I can't see how $50 can be justified. I pay $25 at a local pawn shop but I could drive 20 minutes and pay $10 but the pawn shop is so close to my house.

    And I've never spent more than 5-8 minutes while they do paperwork and I walk out with my new gun.
     
  21. craig

    craig Member

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    $50.00 does seem a little steep, but it does depend on what others in the area are charging.

    one guy in my area charges $50.00. he gets none of my transfers, or any other business.

    another charges $36.00. he got two transfers, and a little business.

    the last guy charges $25.00. he gets all my transfers, and lots of my business.
     
  22. bogie

    bogie Member

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    No wonder the small dealers are going out of business.

    Tell ya what... YOU pay for a storefront operation open during business hours.

    YOU pay for the utilities.

    YOU pay for the alarm service.

    YOU pay to keep the place clean, etc.

    Never mind all the stock that people paw, break, damage, stuff back to the back of the shelves, etc.

    Then there's insurance, liability, FFL licensing, all that stuff.

    He gets a $300 taurus, and that's the same hassle as a $3,000 benchrest rifle. Fine. But if either of them shows up damaged, or the customer decides to pitch a fit over something, guess who is stuck in the middle...

    There may be a "hobbyist" shop in your area, and there you may be lucky. But he may not be there next week.

    Sheesh... Most of you guys bitching about PAYING for some other poor fellow to deal with BATF inspections, etc., etc., probably wouldn't BLINK at paying it for something else. It's like you think boomsticks should be free or something.
     
  23. vis-à-vis

    vis-à-vis Member

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    One of the reasons I don't buy as many guns is because of the transfer cost (that and I have a crappy income). This happened with my last purchase. The cost of the gun was fine. The transfer almost broke me. But then it all goes back to the Gov't being at fault.
     
  24. mrmeval

    mrmeval Member

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    Hasn't this been done to death yet?

    Thanks for that. I'll deal with a gun shop that thinks CEO is some sort of gun accessory and not a license to steal.

    I've listened to the salesmen with FFLs saying it's going to break them. Tough. I'll deal with the guy that transfers in my stuff without a lot of noise or expense.

    When I do it I'll remember them and since I'm already in the store I can pick up something I need if it's reasonably priced.

    One of the stores I frequent does more in transfers than sales usually and is happy to do that. They make more profit on a transfer than most guns and they get people in the store and looking.

    Oh, and a 30 dollar 03 FFL is for the stuff I can do myself. I have more guns because of it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2007
  25. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Sorry if I'm repeating...

    No matter what some of you have said it doesn't take more than 15 minutes to do the paperwork. @ $25 that's $100 an hour.

    Raising the fee from $25 to $50 is a 100% increase, not a slight increase.

    @ $50 the rate is now $200 an hour.

    Sorry, but that's just ridiculous.
     
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