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Treat Us Like Criminals to get Concealed Carry Permit

Discussion in 'Legal' started by aaaaa, Jun 2, 2022.

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  1. aaaaa

    aaaaa Member

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    I considered getting the concealed carry permit, but decided I am not going to submit to being fingerprinted, which is a requirement for carry permit in Michigan:

    "Upon paying all applicable fees and filing the application, the applicant must have classifiable fingerprints taken by the county clerk, state police, sheriff’s office, local police agency, or other entity that provides fingerprinting services."
    https://www.michigan.gov/msp/services/ccw/concealed-pistol-application-and-instructions

    No way am I going to submit to fingerprint records. I am not a criminal. What garbage. I guess I have to wait for Michigan to go constitutional carry or move to a better state. I can open carry, but I think that is a bad idea in so many ways, especially with the looming red flag laws that the Marxist administration proposes to implement.

    Its bad enough if you conceal carry you have to remember all the places you can't carry.

    Frankly, I believe I have every right to conceal carry without any permit, but of course, while that may be my constitutional right, that won't stop them from marking me as a felon if I get caught.

    For now I carry on my own property. Ha, I have to stop 1 foot above the sidewalk. Can't even finish the lawn while carrying.
     
  2. Big_Al

    Big_Al Member

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    Not that big of a deal. I was fingerprinted when I went in the service so the gov has them anyway. Glad I retired before they started taking dna samples. It's also required here in washington state to be printed for cc permit.
     
  3. aaaaa

    aaaaa Member

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    I don't get why they would need fingerprints. They already get my name and address etc, with the application. Same as when I buy a gun.
    To quote Illinois State Sen. Neil Anderson:
    “The fingerprinting thing is, in my mind, blatantly unconstitutional. There is no other amendment in the Bill of Rights where you have to provide fingerprints to exercise that right.”

    I might do it if they used them only for ensuring my identity, then throw them away, but no, the State of Michigan is going to send them to the FBI ! That is totally wrong.
    https://www.baronedefensefirm.com/cpl-application-process.html
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2022
  4. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    I was fingerprinted to be a cop, teacher, and to get carry permits in KY and subsequently FL.
    Didn't seem like a big deal to me, whereas being able to conceal carry is a big deal (understatement).

    There are 25 states that have constitutional (permit less) concealed carry, where one would not have to be subjected to fingerprinting:
    Looks like south of you is the land of freedom:
    https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/constitutional-carry-in-states/
     
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  5. WrongHanded

    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    I have to have an index fingerprint recorded to renew my driver's license.

    And of course I got fingerprinted for my CCW permit. They also wanted to take a picture of my face, and ask me what I'd been doing for the last 10 years.

    It's not really a big deal. You just have to remember that if you decided to do crime later in life, wear gloves. Probably smarter to just not do crime, though.
     
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  6. TarDevil

    TarDevil Member

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    Yep
    Unless you have something to hide
    I was fingerprinted for the CAP... again for home child care.
     
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  7. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    I have been fingerprinted many times for jobs and security clearances. The purpose of the fingerprinting is to ensure you're not a criminal.
     
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  8. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Random Guy

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    While I fully understand the principle the OP is standing on, I also remember my mother telling on more than one occasion “pick your battles with wisdom”

    Like I said, I understand and agree with the OP, I’m just not sure that’s a hill I’d die on. Fortunately in AL I don’t have to worry about it. (Yet)
     
  9. JDeere

    JDeere Member

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    It's your choice but it's really no big deal. They know who you are anyway and my save your bacon someday...
     
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  10. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    Why not just send them a sworn affidavit that says you're not a criminal? Isn't that basically just as good as having your fingerprints run through IAFIS in terms of confirming you've never been arrested?
     
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  11. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

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    I have been fingerprinted to get my law license, to get access to the Arkansas Crime Information Center (repeated every few years), to get a tax stamp . . . . . Once I got fingerprinted that first time, it was no longer a big deal.

    With that said, let's be sure this focuses on legal issues and does not become one long rant.
     
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  12. AlexanderA

    AlexanderA Member

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    Getting fingerprinted isn't a presumption that you are a criminal. It's just a means of positive identification. It's more convenient, for everybody involved, than a full DNA analysis.

    Fingerprinting is used for NFA transfers, government security clearances, and many other non-criminal matters.
     
  13. BoBo522

    BoBo522 Member

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    I had to be fingerprinted as part of my security clearance, so it’s a nonissue for me.
     
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  14. amp-rat

    amp-rat Member

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    Fingerprinted and photo documentation of my tattoos. No biggie. Imagine if you had to provide a print to vote though :)
     
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  15. unclenunzie

    unclenunzie Contributing Member

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    In my job I have to be fingerprinted and background checked due to having access to sensitive data and equipment. It's really not a big deal, routine.

    Back in the day was being fingerprinted in NJ for a firearm purchaser ID card. They specifically focused on the right index finger for obvious reasons. Me being left handed I thought it was kind of a joke. Ink and paper only, the old fashioned way.
     
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  16. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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    While most of us have been fingerprinted in the past for different reasons (permits, licenses, clearances excetra), you have the right to choose not to submit your fingerprints for the permit. You’ll also not have the ability to receive such permit if you don’t comply with the requirements.

    Ultimately the choice is yours.
     
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  17. aaaaa

    aaaaa Member

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    That law office I quoted does not know how to write so I better not use them for my concealed carry backup. They said, "The department of state police will then immediately forward the fingerprints to the Federal Bureau of Investigation." Which is true but incomplete information. I don't think they send them for the FBI to keep on file (though maybe they do) but it appears they are send to the FBI to compare with crime prints in their database. I remember long ago, maybe the 1990s I had to get fingerprinted for a job. Thought nothing of it at the time, but I guess that makes it so that there is nothing new in government records if I do it again. Ok, will have to reconsider this one.

    Thanks for the useful input.
     
  18. Bazoo

    Bazoo Member

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    There is no fingerprinting in KY ccdw licensure at present.
     
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  19. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    Was fingerprinted by the Army, although I’m not a criminal.

    Was fingerprinted by the LE agency I worked for, although I’m not a criminal.

    All LE agencies send copies of fingerprints they’ve taken, regardless of reason, to the FBI.

    Since yours were already taken, no reason not to again, they’re already on file.
     
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  20. dh1633pm

    dh1633pm Contributing Member

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    Everyone always says "unless you have something to hide". Just because one doesn't want to have their fingerprints taken, doesn't mean that have something to hide.

    I was in the military and was both finger printed and DNA tested. Reason given to identify remains. Never was said that they both go into the national fingerprint registry. Just like every other law abiding person, I have a right to my own privacy. But fingerprints and DNA already in the database. So I don't mind giving fingerprints since they are not private anymore anyhow. I have to be fingerprinted for the job, and to get my New York Permit. Since already on file, I didn't object.
     
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  21. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    I was fingerprinted so many times for a Govt job (went to the FBI and State) and then again for CC license. There are a lot of fake identities out there so fingerprint is a pretty sure way of identifying who you are.

    Why should you have your photo taken for a passport or DL??

    Don't get a CC license then
     
  22. aaaaa

    aaaaa Member

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    Ok, so now that I understand the purpose is to ensure they are identifying me and not someone else with same name, and since I was finger printed for a job once upon a time, I guess no big deal. I am signed up for the 8 hour concealed carry course Friday June 17. I have been studying this for a while and suspect a good part of the class will be stuff I already know. but it is required, so will sit through it. Best part of the training will be the range time.

    My next question (and a good one to ask at the class) is how to carry if my day includes a trip to somewhere that does not allow guns (a store with a no-pistols sign on the door) or the library (which I assume is a no-carry),. Do you leave the gun home or leave it in the car where it could be stolen?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2022
  23. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    I have been finger printed plenty. And have done it to hundreds of other people. It got to the point where if I was told I was getting fingerprinted, I would have a can of cheap shaving cream on hand. If you know, you know.

    Never for a carry permit, as my state doesn't require the process. If you haven't been printed much in adult life, I can see the reasoning for making a stand on this one.
     
  24. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Well that would be a good question to ask during the class.:)
    There is the correct answer and then there is another.
     
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  25. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    Yeah they have to send them to the FBI because the FBI is the agency that administers IAFIS. They can't check fingerprints locally.
     
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