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Trigger Issues

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Fat Boy, Aug 28, 2014.

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  1. Fat Boy

    Fat Boy Member

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    I was at the range tonight shooting various rental handguns- working on deciding which gun to buy for CCW

    I have shot quite a bit over the years but over the last couple of years found that when shooting a revolver D/A or say, a Glock, right before the trigger fires the round there is a "slack" or dead space in the pull, and I think it is going to fire and without thinking I relax the grip a bit and the gun dips slightly, and the round goes low or to the side of the target

    This doesn't happen with a 1911 and it doesn't happen when shooting a revolver S/A. Other than buying a 1911 or Ruger Blachawk is there a cure for this?

    Thank You
     
  2. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    It is very hard to diagnose what it happening without seeing you shoot. I don't doubt you are perceiving what you describe, however it has been my experience that what you are describing is inconsistent with your described results. (Relaxing the grip would usually cause shots to strike higher, rather than lower)

    Just offering an educated guess, it sounds like you are staging your DA trigger just before letoff and jerking the trigger as you refine your sight alignment.

    The easy answer is to not relax your grip just before letoff, but that really is a passive response. A more active response would be to make your DA trigger pull one continuous stroke from beginning to end without slowing down or speeding up
     
  3. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    I tend to agree. Concentrating on a consistent straight rear pull will probably solve a lot of the problem.

    When working on isolating trigger pull in my training regimen, I bench the handgun to eliminate the issues so I can concentrate completely on the trigger pull.
     
  4. murf

    murf Member

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    you are thinking too much! don't worry about when the gun is going to fire, just pull the trigger straight back. an old visualization trick is to pull the front sight back through the rear sight.

    whatever it takes to get you to quit thinking about the things that don't matter.

    front sight, squeeze trigger, repeat. k.i.s.s.

    it gets easier the more you practice.

    luck,

    murf
     
  5. tuj

    tuj Member

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    I don't believe in the surprise break with my own guns, but when I shoot a new gun, I always go for the surprise break.

    Increase pressure
    increase pressure
    don't stop
    increase pressure
    BANG.

    Don't anticipate when the gun will fire, just squeeze right through the ignition.
     
  6. gazpacho

    gazpacho Member

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    Snap caps and dry fire practice. Maintain sight picture before, during and after the trigger pull. I recommend a couple dozen pulls every day for a few weeks.
     
  7. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    Dry fire can help immensly with this, especially on longer DAO triggers. Work on not "staging" the trigger. Focus on just pulling all and straight through.

    A firearm that helped my trigger pull was a Walther P99AS. It has a staged trigger about halfway through the pull where it clicks and stays if you release the trigger. This is intentional. I would practice for about an hour a day dry firing through that click to where it is unnoticeable. And the slide doesn't need to be reset to function the trigger, so that helps practice.
     
  8. mikemyers

    mikemyers Member

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    In addition to all the other advice that's been given, you might enjoy watching this YouTube video, and try the "trick" he shows, to identify what might be going on:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xa5JPLGIsU

    I found this video while searching for something else, but I like his idea, and when my Colt comes back from the repair shop, I'll try it myself (but with snap-caps).
     
  9. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    9mm's diagnosis sounds spot on to me.

    Work on a smooth straight back pull and try not to stage the trigger. Dry firing a lot would probably help.
     
  10. David E

    David E Member

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    If you think you've identified the reason "...then I do this..."

    The first thing I'd suggest is....stop doing it!

    IF the problem persists after you know you're not doing what you think is the problem, then we can move forward with other possibilities.
     
  11. g.willikers

    g.willikers Member

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    As the others have described, you are experiencing the lack of follow through.
    Archers call it "Let Down", where the archer lets the bow dip before the arrow hits the target.
    Resulting in a guaranteed lousy shot.
    Keep good form until the bullet hits the target.
    Sights on target, trigger fully to the rear and continued focus on target.
    And you will be ready for follow up shots, as well.
    Single actions are less prone to this problem and why 1911s are so popular with competition folks.
     
  12. Jaymo

    Jaymo Member

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    Glock triggers are creepy, horrible excuses for trigger pulls.
     
  13. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    They just need a quick clean up (25-cent trigger job) to take out the grit to be very shootable. They won't give you a crisp (glass rod) trigger break, but that isn't what top tier Action Pistol shooters are using these days..at least not in Product division
     
  14. Jaymo

    Jaymo Member

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    It saddens me that a whole generation thinks Glocks actually have a good trigger pull.
    There is no reasonable way a Glock trigger pull can be considered anything other than horrible.
    If any other gun had a pull that crappy, it would be panned as being junk.
    But, the Glock Kool Aid is strong.
     
  15. rskent

    rskent Member

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    It's a Glock world Jaymo.

    We are all products of our experience. If a person with little shooting experience picks up a glock and starts shooting it, how would they know if the trigger is good or not? To them it's fine.

    For me, coming from 1911's, its manageable. It reminds me of a staple gun, but it's still manageable. It's more work for me to get good hits with a glock. I have to practice more. How sad for me. :rolleyes:
     
  16. TParrish

    TParrish Member

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    "Snap caps and dry fire practice. Maintain sight picture before, during and after the trigger pull. I recommend a couple dozen pulls every day for a few weeks.
    __________________"

    Agreed. I upped the ante a bit with my dry fire practice by doing this exercise. it smoothed out my trigger pull a great deal. I saw another version of this for semi-auto pistols (with flatter tops to the slide) using a cartridge stood on its base on the barrel during practice. I can't locate that video just now, but it exists.
    As always, empty weapon, using snap caps to protect the weapon where needed.
     
  17. Miked7762

    Miked7762 Member

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    Just a though, what you're feeling could be the firing pin safety disengaging or the transfer bar safety engaging. If you get the chance, try dry firing a Beretta 92 or 96 in double action and watch the firing pin safety. Is it starting to rise when you feel that dead spot you're describing?
     
  18. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Returning to revolvers... ;)

    In most if not all SA/DA trigger systems the double-action release comes before the trigger is all of the way back. If someone is carefully staging the trigger the sudden lack of tension may cause a twitch as the hammer falls. The best solution is to concentrate on the sight picture/alignment and not be aware of the trigger, which results in a surprise break. However if one is going to shoot double-action only a trigger stop can be installed that stops any further movement of the trigger at the point where the hammer is released.

    If anyone is interested this works best in S&W revolvers, and hardly or not at all in pre-1970 Colts.
     
  19. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Member

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    Seems to me the OP answered his own question in his initial post. He seems to shoot singe actions very well, without the trigger issue described.

    The 1911 is a perfectly reasonable choice for CC.
     
  20. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    You mean like this...the screw through the trigger is tipped with rubber...on a Davis PPC K-frame

    DavisPPCgun032.jpg

    Odd, it seemed to to work pretty well on this Jungkind tuned Python...note the bead of weld on the tip of the trigger

    LewsPistols036.jpg
     
  21. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    No, my method (although I didn't invent it) doesn't require any modifications to the revolver or parts therein. However it's Smith & Wesson-centric, and won't work on Colt or Ruger hand-ejectors. Another variant might do the trick on revolvers that have coil mainsprings, but I haven't tried it. The idea here is to prevent the trigger from rotating back far enough to engage the hammer's full-cock notch, leaving you with the double-action option only. I prefer it only because no modifications to the revolver or parts in it is necessary.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  22. 200Apples
    • Contributing Member

    200Apples Member

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    Have you tried a Springfield EMP? They're chambered in 9 or .40

    I understand the 9mm is the way to go in that little pistol.
     
  23. Miked7762

    Miked7762 Member

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    If you read the original post again, you'll see he isn't only talking about revolvers. ;)
     
  24. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    Fatboy, I think I have experienced the same thing with Glock triggers. It's almost like there's a small, barely perceptible delay between when the trigger rounds the corner on the disconnector and goes past the point of no return... and where the sear releases.

    What happened to me is at first all my shots were on the bulls eye. Then after getting some initial familiarity with the trigger, my shots started dropping way low, because I could feel when the trigger was about to break and I started to counteract the recoil, early. This happens to some extent with a lot of guns. But with the Glock, the "gap" is so much bigger that anticipation really put the rounds way off target.

    Then after really learning the trigger, shots came back to the bulls eye. If you spend some time with the Glock, you may be able to put the non-surprise break to your advantage. Not everyone can do this. But those that can will like it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  25. Vodoun da Vinci

    Vodoun da Vinci Member

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    With DA revolvers I have improved greatly by focusing on a consistent pull while concentrating on the target/front site/alignment. Resisting the urge to stage the trigger and making a solid, consistent pull to *BaNg!* worked wonders as did dry firing 100 cycles a night.

    With my Glocks I found that the trigger improves significantly after about 3000 pulls....again, dry fire practice both improves the trigger and helps teach the body to use it/manipulate it properly. Glock triggers are odd compared to other guns but my Glocks are inherently the most accurate guns in my hands. If you master the trigger it will not stop you from being accurate no matter it is not super clean and crisp like a tuned SA.

    VooDoo
     
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