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Trijicon TARS 3-15x50 Red MOA Riflescope TARS101..(Still Shaking Head)

Discussion in 'Long Gun Accessories and Optics' started by nerfsrule2, May 8, 2016.

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  1. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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    I am getting ready for a long distance target shoot... Working on Loads for my 7mm 08..(41g of imr 4064 under a 140g Burger will get me there once i tweak the COAL... )

    So I purchased this scope to get me there...

    here is a look through the Tube.. 54D066917482ECA91049E96619EC285922026D44.jpg

    They talk about ease of acquiring long range targets here...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPXkLwO0PTI



    So I pulled my Luepold vx 3( 8.5x25) off the rifle, and Put the TARS on to make it easy hitting various long range targets...

    The TARS even has an Illuminated Reticle..

    At around 1:35 of the Video the Trijicon rep does say the Reticle changes size with magnification..
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2016
  2. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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    So I took the gun out yesterday to try a new COAL...And I confirmed what my Gunsmith friend said...

    Here is the Target I shot at.. 749720.jpg

    See the Red Diamond in the Middle it is Approx 1/4 of an inch.. Look up at the RED cross hair (Center point) of the TARS.. It covers up the Diamond.. You can not see it.. I found it impossible to shoot for the same bullet hole at 100 yards..The center mark covered it up.. So I have to ask..Am i an doing something so stupidly incorrect.....Or does Trijicon have a major flaw in this scope??
     
  3. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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    The Luepold..(No problem shooting at the same hole) th?id=OIP.Me117968d1a3f1555edc3d49702040b14o0&pid=15.jpg
     
  4. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    That scope is well designed for hitting non red targets which are common in nature and combat zones.
     
  5. dogmush

    dogmush Member

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    Turn off the illumination?
     
  6. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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    Dogmush.. I have tried with and without the illumination.. I should say that i was shooting at the highest magnification at 100 yards which was 15x... Then I took it out to 200 yards and same issue..The cross in the center covered up more area of the target...
     
  7. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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    non red targets.. Not really sure what that has to do with my issue... The way it is acting at 100 and 200 yards..I am afraid if i push it out to 1000 yards the cross hair will cover up the entire target ...
     
  8. AnselHazen

    AnselHazen Member

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    Be interested to hear what Trijicon themselves say about this. They are responsive, I once needed to query them about a RX06 and had an answer in 24 hrs.
     
  9. dogmush

    dogmush Member

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    Just squinting at the MOA reticle picture you posted I'd estimate that crosshair is about 1/4-1/3 of an MOA wide. So yeah, it'll cover the 1/4" diamond at 100 yds. At 1000yds, it should cover 2.5"-3" maybe as much as 4". On a FFP scope if the reticle is too thin you won't be able to see it at all on the lower mags. Trijicon is trying to find a sweet spot on a line you can still see at 3x, but is usable at 15x.

    Sucks that it seems to not be working for you, especially at that cost. Call Trijicon and get the specs on the reticle thickness and do the math to see if it will work for you.
     
  10. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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    AnselHazen. I contacted Trijicon about the issue several months ago after my gunsmith pointed this out to me.... Their rep was nice but he said he never heard of the issue.. And suggested i adjust the Parallax... I just got of the Phone with my gunsmith and he said adjusting the Parallax will not solve the issue of the cross hairs covering up your point of aim.. Wether it be a red triangle or a Bullet hole..I was able to put 2 bullets in the same hole (Damn close) at 100 yards.. Then the third one would go astray.. I did this one time each with the same load with 2 different COAL's.. and yes a different COAL did change the point of impact...

    I contacted the gentleman that i purchased the scope from and directed him to this thread.. I wanted to see if he had noticed this issue..

    Oh and BTW we did make adjustments to the Parallax and it did not change the coverage area of the Cross hairs..

    I am going to get one of those targets that has different yardage markers on them.. Set them up at 100 yards and they have image representation of how the target looks at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 yards ect... I think i already know how it will turn out..
     
  11. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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    dogmush When I contacted trijicon.. The gentleman did give me the MOA it covered..But I do not remember what numbers he gave me... There is a video out there of guys dialing the scope in playing "Golf" with steel plates at various long range distances.. They are having a great time and are hitting long range steel with ease..I will try and find the video..

    My smith friend (John) just said since you can not see the bullet hole with the Trijicon.. we will put your Luepold in a Larue Tactical QD scope mount that I have.... and attach it to the pickitanny rail that is now on the 7mm 08.. Fine tune it with that scope then maybe put the Trijicon back on....
     
  12. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXoc6ACvWJ4


    Chuckle at 33 seconds he is shooting the exact same target I was... I wonder if he can see the red diamond... It also looks like 100 yards.. To be honest I wonder what magnification he is using??
     
  13. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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  14. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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    So in the Video they say that the reticle gets larger with magnification ..To increase accuracy at long ranges... They say this is a "feature"

    So this was built in but at close range it seems to hinder my shooting..(At 100 and 200 yards using 15x)
     
  15. orionengnr

    orionengnr Member

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    I'm not much of a rifleman, but I would start by using a six o'clock hold, just like with a pistol. That way, you can still see the red diamond...and if you can get a small and consistent group, you can adjust the elevation to put that group where you want it.

    Don't know if that will help or not, but may be worth a try?
     
  16. basicblur

    basicblur Member

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    You do know the difference between FFP and SFP scopes, don't you?
     
  17. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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    basicblur You just hit on the issue.. Second focal plane scopes the cross hair always stays the same... FFP makes it easier to determine distance because the reticle gets larger.. So it was Me all the time...

    This explains a lot in the video.. FFP and SFP and the advantages and disadvantages of Both..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1MMq2cxzw8

    It was Me all along.. Thanks.. I learned something and I hope some others did also..
     
  18. DocUSMCRetired

    DocUSMCRetired Member

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    basic was the first the hit this issue, but that's FFP which means the reticle is correct at all magnifications, so if you zoom in and out, you don't need to do any mental math to adjust your wind or elevation hold over. A lot of benefits for FFP in Practical Precision Shooting.
     
  19. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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    So I went shooting last night with my gunsmith, engineer and friend John.. This thread came up in conversation.. He still maintains that the Thickness of the cross hair is to big because it covers up to much of the POI (Point of Impact) He gave 2 examples..

    He said there is a Silo about a mile away from his house..He put the TARS on it and he said it covered up the entire structure. He said the Glass was crystal clear some of the best he had ever seen (except for the internal chip he saw which will now require it to be sent Back to Trijicon) .. But the thickness of the cross hairs appearance covers up to much of the image... He pulled out his Swarovski scope and said he could pick out an individual panel and aim for that..With the Trijicon it was well i can hit the Silo..

    Then he did some Quick math in his head and asked if I remember seeing the Multi distance paper targets..(They had a silhouette for shooting at 50 yards, Then around it how the same image would look at 100, 200, 300 yards ect) ..He said on one of the scales a 1000 yard target would look like a one inch square at 100 yards and this scope covers it up unless you use (as was mentioned earlier) a 6 o'clock hold) He still steadfastly maintains design flaw..
     
  20. basicblur

    basicblur Member

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    Design flaw? Really?
    Sounds to me like he's an "old timer" that's let FFP throw him for a loop.

    Until a few years ago, all I had were fixed optics - bought my first variable power scope with BDC reticle (for a 22) and quickly decided (for me) constantly changing BDC marks really suck.

    Got to work and did my homework - didn't realize there was such as thing as FFP vs. SFP reticles. The benchrest boyz at the shop (who apparently had no experience / don't like FFP) informed me that FFP has been big in Europe for years - SFP seems to rule on this side of the pond (although FFP is quickly gaining favor).

    Since learning the difference, I specify FFP in all new variable power scopes I buy (and have bought).

    I've overheard a number of customers in the shop lately asking about / specifying FFP when scope shopping, so it appears word is slowly getting around.
     
  21. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    Not at all a design flaw. If you want to shoot tiny groups at long range, then just get a SFP scope designed to do just that, such as a Nightforce Benchrest scope. For practical or field shooting as seen in PRS (Precision Rifle Shooting) events, FFP is the way to go.

    Holdovers/unders, wind hold, ranging is all much faster and consistent on any power. True, the reticle is thicker, but the trade off is worth it is most any scenario besides benchrest/F-Class shooting.
     
  22. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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    PB.. This is what this scope was designed to do....Long range shooting..They are hitting gongs at 800 yards plus...Check out the video... I wont be doing any 1k targets if they are hid by the cross hairs..
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
  23. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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    basicblur.. John is mot an old timer.. He is in his early 30's (If age matters).. I have never seen so much knowledge and gunskill crammed into one man.. BTW then he grew up on the knee of the famous Marlin Weaver of Palmyra.. Who Smith and Wesson used to send early prototypes and pre-Production Models of their revolvers to for his opinion on design changes...
     
  24. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    reticle thickness is the subject of much debate. everyone has an opinion. depends on how big your targets are and how fast you need to find the reticle on lower powers. short answer: there are plenty of options, pick the one you like. you may need to sell that scope and buy a different one.

    but, you may wind up hunting with the next scope on low power and come back here cursing that you can't ever see the reticle on low power. look at the first picture you posted and imagine if the reticle was half as thick.
     
  25. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Member

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    Cool.. Thanks taliv..I did not realize that this was a hot topic.. The Pics do not do the scope reticle justice.. I wish there was a way to show what i am seeing through the scope @ 15x and 200 yards.. Everyone that sees it goes WOW.. They first notice (When looking through it how clear the glass is and how sharp the image is).. Then when it comes time to pull the trigger..They all say to much is covered up by the reticle .. and this is really apparent when you want to put a second shot in the same hole as the first... this will never be a hunting scope.. Just targets and Silhouette's at long range..

    I bought it to take to a 1000 yard bench rest class.. Sadly it filled up before the emails got out to me and my friends..
     
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