armoredman
Member
Found a local supplier that had exactly one choice for black, the Triple Seven FFFG substitute, which I would like to try in my 1858 Remington Sheriff Pietta clone. Any thoughts/experiances/tips with this stuff?
Triple Seven powder
- Thread starter armoredman
- Start date
- Status
Voodoochile
Member
Keep your charges at no more than 25gr. because it is a little hotter than Black Powder & Pyrodex.
777 does not like to be compressed that much so all you need is to just have the ball/bullet sitting on the powder not compressing it.
If you are using a Wad same thing applies as before don't compress the load too much or you may end up with a FTF or a HF.
777 does not like to be compressed that much so all you need is to just have the ball/bullet sitting on the powder not compressing it.
If you are using a Wad same thing applies as before don't compress the load too much or you may end up with a FTF or a HF.
Voodoochile is right on the mark.
With 777 you need to use 10-15% less by volume than your normal black powder load, and it does not like to be tightly compressed. Just be sure the ball is seated.
777 has a higher ignition temperature than black powder, but regular caps should be adequate. Some people feel that magnum caps are more reliable with 777 but my experience is that regular caps will work fine if the powder is not compressed too much.
With 777 you need to use 10-15% less by volume than your normal black powder load, and it does not like to be tightly compressed. Just be sure the ball is seated.
777 has a higher ignition temperature than black powder, but regular caps should be adequate. Some people feel that magnum caps are more reliable with 777 but my experience is that regular caps will work fine if the powder is not compressed too much.
Tomahawk674
Member
I have probably had 2 misfires with tripple seven over something like 600 shots or more, and I'm willing to bet it was clogged nipples both times.
You'll love 777, it's so easy to clean, fouling is minimal, etc. Just multiply the charge of regular black powder you want to emulate by 0.85 and that will give you the 777 ammount.
Have fun!
You'll love 777, it's so easy to clean, fouling is minimal, etc. Just multiply the charge of regular black powder you want to emulate by 0.85 and that will give you the 777 ammount.
Have fun!
g.willikers
Member
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2007
- Messages
- 1,027
Triple 7 absorbs water, much like BP, so it will cause rust if it's not cleaned out well.
Actually both 777 powder and black powder are only slightly hygroscopic. However, the combustion by-products (fouling) of both do contain salts that are mildly hygroscopic; my experience with both says that black powder is significantly worse in that regard. I regularly swab my guns after each session with bp solvent before leaving the range and clean thoroughly within 24 hours of each session. I would suggest you do the same.
1858rem
Member
well... bp isn't really hygroscopic when it is still in powder form is it, not badly anyhow. 777 is much more hygroscopic in powder form because it is sugar based, regular bp's only hygroscopic component it the kno3, but 777 has kno3 and the sugar, and whatever else they may have decided to put in it. i do really like the 777 though, especially more shots/lb due to reduced load but that still doesn't offset the price difference imo. have fun makin' smoke
OP
OP
armoredman
Member
There's the fun of it - which loading data? Two manuals that came WITH the sidearm say the following; Peitta max load 15gr FFFG of black, and Cabelas, which states 35 gr black, 28 gr Pyrodex. Those came IN the box, then my Hogdon manual says 20gr 777 to 25 gr, in a steel frame 1858, (which I have), so therein lies my disquiet. I am thinking the Hogdon data is probably the one to use, and the Peitta data is meant to keep charges weak, to prevent gun breakage and lawsuits.
Thanks for the help guys - one last question. Howintheheck do you use an inline capper? One came with it, never used one before.
Thanks for the help guys - one last question. Howintheheck do you use an inline capper? One came with it, never used one before.
1858rem
Member
i dunno how to use those cappers either, they are either too tight to release the cap or too loose an they fall out or just right but wont feed or the caps fall over....soooo much trouble with em lol. i do wish something would help cause i got a deal on 1000 #10 primers for 25$, plus i had 500 at the house an about 300 more #11's...... an in the cold that will make yer thumb hurt in a hurry tryin to put all those little caps on!
1858rem
Member
i think 27g 777 works pretty good, its a little over recommended load but go with what you feel is safe in your gun, thats only target for me though, about 35-40 yds back that load only went about half an inch into a 2 by 4 steak and was 6" low, but dead center horizontally lol
dwave
Member
Which is funny because it says on the website to reduce by 15%. SO, if cabelas says 35 gr. bp then it should be 30 grs. for the 1858. (35x.15=5.25;35-5(rounded)=30 gr.) However hodgdon recommends 25 instead.
*WARNING FOLLOWING DATA GOES OUT OF MANUFACTURERS SPECS*
I have used 35 grs. of 777 in my 1858 before. Most of the time I use 30. grs.
I have even loaded 40 gr in it, and WOW, that was a real hit of power. It was very inaccurate though as I had to compress the load to get it in. As stated before 777 does not like to be compressed. I don't recommend the 40.
*WARNING FOLLOWING DATA GOES OUT OF MANUFACTURERS SPECS*
I have used 35 grs. of 777 in my 1858 before. Most of the time I use 30. grs.
I have even loaded 40 gr in it, and WOW, that was a real hit of power. It was very inaccurate though as I had to compress the load to get it in. As stated before 777 does not like to be compressed. I don't recommend the 40.
1858rem
Member
*WARNING FOLLOWING DATA GOES OUT OF MANUFACTURERS SPECS*
(I copied that^ lol
) yes i've loaded up an over 40g 777 too no wad or anything, jus a little bore butter i got a hair over 45g POW
! very strong guns, i guess manufacturers could be trying to cover brass and steel frame revolvers in the same statement though. 30g of most powders seems to be a good load, maybe on the heavy side though
(I copied that^ lol
) yes i've loaded up an over 40g 777 too no wad or anything, jus a little bore butter i got a hair over 45g POW! very strong guns, i guess manufacturers could be trying to cover brass and steel frame revolvers in the same statement though. 30g of most powders seems to be a good load, maybe on the heavy side thoughdwave
Member
I agree, I wouldn't want to throw that much powder in a brass framed gun at all.
Hey, if it works, go for it!
Hey, if it works, go for it!
Here we go again.
The best load for your gun is the one you determine for yourself by trying out several options. The manufacturer's/distributor's/retailer's recommendations are worth exactly what they cost you.
Start with a mild, even low load, say 20 gr in a .44 Rem NMA. Use grease or wads or corn meal or whatever, at this point it's not important. Load each chamber the same way and use the same amount of compression. Shoot 3-5 rounds at 7-10 yards ALWAYS using the same POA. The point is to shoot groups, not hit the bull.
Reload using 22 or 23 gr, the same wads/grease/meal and use the same amount of compression, shoot 3-5 rounds at the same distance. Repeat with 25 gr, then 27-28 gr, 30 gr, 32-33 gr and 35 gr. It should become clear which load shoots the smallest groups. I doubt very much you'll have to go much above 30 gr as the group should open pretty quickly with those heavy loads.
Once you've found the best powder load you can then experiment the same way with wads/grease/corn meal options to see how those work for you in your gun.
Now if you want you can start adjusting the sights in any manner you wish to shoot accurate POA's at longer ranges.
This should result in the most accurate load for your gun. I think it will be about 25 gr, give or take a bit. But maybe not.
Or you can just fill up the chambers and blast away,
The best load for your gun is the one you determine for yourself by trying out several options. The manufacturer's/distributor's/retailer's recommendations are worth exactly what they cost you.
Start with a mild, even low load, say 20 gr in a .44 Rem NMA. Use grease or wads or corn meal or whatever, at this point it's not important. Load each chamber the same way and use the same amount of compression. Shoot 3-5 rounds at 7-10 yards ALWAYS using the same POA. The point is to shoot groups, not hit the bull.
Reload using 22 or 23 gr, the same wads/grease/meal and use the same amount of compression, shoot 3-5 rounds at the same distance. Repeat with 25 gr, then 27-28 gr, 30 gr, 32-33 gr and 35 gr. It should become clear which load shoots the smallest groups. I doubt very much you'll have to go much above 30 gr as the group should open pretty quickly with those heavy loads.
Once you've found the best powder load you can then experiment the same way with wads/grease/corn meal options to see how those work for you in your gun.
Now if you want you can start adjusting the sights in any manner you wish to shoot accurate POA's at longer ranges.
This should result in the most accurate load for your gun. I think it will be about 25 gr, give or take a bit. But maybe not.
Or you can just fill up the chambers and blast away,
1858rem
Member
blastin away is pretty fun
, i unknowingly until afterwards tend to alternate, i have kind of got a pattern going of at first just havin tons of fun just blastin away with pretty heavy loads, then i get tried of missin all the time lol so i decide to work up an accurate load, sometimes im patient enough to finde it others im not and just start blastin away, then i start running out of money cause of all the powder i gotta buy, so i go back lookin for accuracy and economy, then i just finish up with a few dozen heavy loads, then i shoot my flinter a few months and forget my load for the Remington and start all over again.... i think im gonna write my loads down next time lol, oh i forgot, in all this i switch up between rb an conical to make it even more confusing!
, i unknowingly until afterwards tend to alternate, i have kind of got a pattern going of at first just havin tons of fun just blastin away with pretty heavy loads, then i get tried of missin all the time lol so i decide to work up an accurate load, sometimes im patient enough to finde it others im not and just start blastin away, then i start running out of money cause of all the powder i gotta buy, so i go back lookin for accuracy and economy, then i just finish up with a few dozen heavy loads, then i shoot my flinter a few months and forget my load for the Remington and start all over again.... i think im gonna write my loads down next time lol, oh i forgot, in all this i switch up between rb an conical to make it even more confusing!DixieTexian
Member
Write the load on the inside of the grips with a sharpie when you clean it. That way you always have it with the gun.
1858rem
Member
great idea. thanks!
Sistema1927
Member
I shot both my .44 1858 and my .36 1851 today using 777.
15 grains in the .36 and 15 grains in the .44 both print to the same POI at 7 yards. The 1858 will handle 30 grains of 777 without problems, but 15 does the job.
As to caps, even though folks sometimes bad mouth CCI, I find that CCI #10 caps work just fine with both revolvers.
15 grains in the .36 and 15 grains in the .44 both print to the same POI at 7 yards. The 1858 will handle 30 grains of 777 without problems, but 15 does the job.
As to caps, even though folks sometimes bad mouth CCI, I find that CCI #10 caps work just fine with both revolvers.
Gaucho Gringo
Member
I shoot Triple 7 in both my Remington 1858 & Colt 1851 both in .44. I use 25-28 gr in the Remington and 22-25 in the Colt. Both are steel framed Pietta's and both shoot good with Triple 7 with no problems and easy cleanup. I left the Remington loaded with Triple 7 for 9 months, no caps or grease on, with no rust . Although one one of these days I going to have to find some real black powder locally and try it.
BHP FAN
Member
I have even used triple seven in my Trapdoor.55 grs under a 385 conical is my most accurate load yet.
dwave
Member
It does work pretty well in cartridges. I load it in a .45 colt every now and then. (Mainly when I don't have BP.)
OP
OP
armoredman
Member
Looking forward to trying it on my weekend, thanks, guys!
Smokin_Gun
Member
I broke the Pins off an 1860 Pietta Steel frame with 28gr of 777 ffg...it's less accurate in a Cap & Ball...pretty accurate in a cartridge load like .45Colt. Tried in in a ROA I just got that eats everything 2 out a 6 misfires in the first cylinder.
I bought 1 lb. hard to consistantly press a ball on, still have half a lb. left won't buy another.
Why don't people buy 5 or 10 lbs. of The Holy Black Powder in what ever brand or Granulation they like? It can be shipped to your Door... From Powder Inc. Goex, KIK, Swiss...I jus' don't understand.
http://www.powderinc.com/catalog/index.html (see page 2)
{I'd use Pyrodex P before I used 777 ffg again}I don't think I like it...
SG
I bought 1 lb. hard to consistantly press a ball on, still have half a lb. left won't buy another.
Why don't people buy 5 or 10 lbs. of The Holy Black Powder in what ever brand or Granulation they like? It can be shipped to your Door... From Powder Inc. Goex, KIK, Swiss...I jus' don't understand.
http://www.powderinc.com/catalog/index.html (see page 2)
{I'd use Pyrodex P before I used 777 ffg again}
I don't think I like it...SG
Last edited:
1858rem
Member
for what reason did you choose to use ffg in a pistol? fffg works much better as far as ignition and accuracy, an power too, but you still gotta watch the compression. in fffg i prefer 777 to pyro p, but for ten bucks less i can have the pyro p vs almost 27 dollars/lb 777. soon enough ill make a ten lb powder order from powder inc (because ANY sub absolutely sucks in a flintlock!), but first i gotta spend all my money on the kirst konversion with loading gate lol
. soon enough ill make a ten lb powder order from powder inc (because ANY sub absolutely sucks in a flintlock!), but first i gotta spend all my money on the kirst konversion with loading gate lol- Status
