Trophy hunting is what saved American wildlife from extinction.

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H&Hhunter

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Prior to the formation of the Boone and Crocket club in 1887 hunting in America was a profession. Market hunting was decimating wildlife at a ferocious rate. There were no seasons or regulations to prevent the mass slaughter of wildlife for food and animal product markets. Animals were killed for their products irregardless of their age or sex, if it was brown it was down. This was completely unsustainable for wildlife. Theodore Roosevelt and George B. Grinnell had traveled and hunted and in particular they had seen the the unregulated rapid paced killing of animals in the American west. They realized that it wouldn’t be long before all wildlife was going to become extinct.

In fact they had organized hunts to collect specimens for our national museums so the we could have historical examples of animals that were rapidly disappearing and soon would be extinct. Roosevelt and Grinnell understood that without swift reform we’d soon be a nation devoid of our national wildlife treasures.

Their solution was to form the Boone and Crocket club. The B&C club mandated fair chase, seasons, licenses and sustainable off take. And in particular they understood that taking older mature males is a net positive to the herd health. That is why they started a score system and henceforth placed value on big older “trophy” males. This system is the foundation of our conservation success and the very reason we have blossoming numbers of wildlife through out the United States.

Those early reforms have grown into the wildlife conservation methods we employ today. I am proud to say that I’m a trophy hunter. As an example when I finally drew my Shiras Moose tag after 17 years of applying in Colorado I passed up 15 mature prime breeding age bulls before finally taking a battered geriatric who was past his prime and carried a declining yet still trophy rack. By doing so it allowed those prime bulls to breed and pass on their genes. It took an old bull out of the eco system who was still fighting younger bulls but was at the end of his breeding years. This old bull was no longer competing for feed or cows making for a healthier herd. Taking old bulls or old dry cows benefits herd health.

Of course this system has been so successful that we are now required to take off females and young males for population purposes and that’s fine too. But it turns my stomach when I see “trophy hunters” being vilified by the press and it really twists me to see other hunters doing it. Doing so is a complete lack of understanding of how we got to where we are today.

Teddy was smart enough to know that conservation was dependent on having people value and the animals and by setting up a regulatory system that allowed the public to hunt and to to do so in a sustainable fashion has worked and worked well. By assigning value to hunting primarily old critters with his score system he started a conservation revolution. We have the best hunting and conservation system on the planet.

I am proud to be a trophy hunter. And by that I mean I’ll hunt for population control where needed, I’ll only kill old mature critters where needed and I harvest all the meat from a juicy young doe or a gamely old bull. I am not a market hunter, I’m not a sustenance hunter, I hunt for the trophy of the experience and thank my maker that I live in a country where I can pursue my passion for wildlife and wild places.
 
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I consider myself somewhere in the middle. I try to shoot mostly mature bucks, but I don’t care if they are at the end of their breeding years or in their prime. If he’s a mature buck and I’d be proud to put him on the wall, I shoot him. If not, I let him walk and shoot a doe instead. I have one particular farm I hunt where the farmer’s rule is, if it’s brown it’s down. He makes his living off the corn and soybeans those deer are eating, so on that property, I shoot every legal deer that steps out. The meat from that farm allows me to be much more selective on the other properties I hunt and one thing I realized this past season is that shooting deer is more fun than I remembered.

I went three years without shooting a deer. I let does walk while hunting a buck and let several small to borderline bucks walk while waiting on bigger bucks. The freezer was empty and I was growing bored with watching deer. Hunting the “shoot on sight” farm this season broke the ice for me and reminded me that hunting is a lot more rewarding when I’ve got blood on my tailgate at the end of the day.
 
I consider myself somewhere in the middle. I try to shoot mostly mature bucks, but I don’t care if they are at the end of their breeding years or in their prime. If he’s a mature buck and I’d be proud to put him on the wall, I shoot him. If not, I let him walk and shoot a doe instead. I have one particular farm I hunt where the farmer’s rule is, if it’s brown it’s down. He makes his living off the corn and soybeans those deer are eating, so on that property, I shoot every legal deer that steps out. The meat from that farm allows me to be much more selective on the other properties I hunt and one thing I realized this past season is that shooting deer is more fun than I remembered.

I went three years without shooting a deer. I let does walk while hunting a buck and let several small to borderline bucks walk while waiting on bigger bucks. The freezer was empty and I was growing bored with watching deer. Hunting the “shoot on sight” farm this season broke the ice for me and reminded me that hunting is a lot more rewarding when I’ve got blood on my tailgate at the end of the day.

And of course the whole point of this thread is that the reason you have the options and ability to choose shooting a vast array of deer is due to the foresight of the guys mentioned in my OP. Without their conservation minded programs being put into place when they were we’d have no deer to hunt/ enjoy now at all.
 
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But... won’t taking the biggest deer result in the removal of the biggest genes from the breeding stock?

If I’m not looking for a mount, I’m after something small, so next year’s fawns will be bigger.
 
But... won’t taking the biggest deer result in the removal of the biggest genes from the breeding stock?

If I’m not looking for a mount, I’m after something small, so next year’s fawns will be bigger.

This is a common misconception, shooting a big young deer or a small young deer that hasn’t shown his potential yet will damage your herd genetics. Shooting big old mature males is what is recommended. An old male has already passed his genes on for multiple seasons.

Shooting something young and small will not increase next years dawn size potential. Culling out inferior genetics is something entirely different. You don’t want genetically inferior males mating. Shooting a male with inferior genetics means that male will never develop into anything decent. But shooting a young small male with tons of trophy potential and years of breeding opportunities ahead of him is a huge negative to overall herd health in regards to future sustained trophy potential.
 
This is a common misconception, shooting a big young deer or a small young deer that hasn’t shown his potential yet will damage your herd genetics. Shooting big old mature males is what is recommended. An old male has already passed his genes on for multiple seasons.

Curiosity here, when does my biggest buck stop passing on his genes? Not in any disagreement, just curious if anyone knows at what age they quit breeding.

Shooting something young and small will not increase next years dawn size potential. Culling out inferior genetics is something entirely different. You don’t want genetically inferior males mating. Shooting a male with inferior genetics means that male will never develop into anything decent. But shooting a young small male with tons of trophy potential and years of breeding opportunities ahead of him is a huge negative to overall herd health in regards to future sustained trophy potential.

Right, I'm not recommending shooting the youngest deer (antelope, bears, hogs, elk, squirrels, rabbits, whatever). As you mentioned, I'm saying to pick out a smaller one and letting the bigger one continue breeding, assuming equal ages. That's what I was referring to.

As you also mentioned, I am a proponent of taking out that buck that keeps showing up (multiple years) with one antler, or some other defect, and do consider that a different issue.
 
Curiosity here, when does my biggest buck stop passing on his genes? Not in any disagreement, just curious if anyone knows at what age they quit breeding.



Right, I'm not recommending shooting the youngest deer (antelope, bears, hogs, elk, squirrels, rabbits, whatever). As you mentioned, I'm saying to pick out a smaller one and letting the bigger one continue breeding, assuming equal ages. That's what I was referring to.

As you also mentioned, I am a proponent of taking out that buck that keeps showing up (multiple years) with one antler, or some other defect, and do consider that a different issue.

Here’s a quick article on the subject of breeding age and peak antler growth. Peak antler growth occurs after prime breeding age.

https://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/editorial/huntingtactics_naw_maturebuck_200808/263957
 
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Some of the period photos of acres & acres of skinned Buffalo left to rot and piles of bones 5-men-tall is enough to make a reasonable person sick to their stomach.
 
I
That is why they started a score system and henceforth placed value on big older “trophy” males. This system is the foundation of our conservation success and the very reason we have blossoming numbers of wildlife through out the United States.

I disagree. The stopping of market hunting and placing seasons and bag limits is what saved our wildlife. Trophy hunting is relative. If there are only 10 deer in an area, any deer is a trophy and a buck is even better in the eyes of the majority of hunters. When there are thousands of deer, a hunter can be more selective and turn into a trophy hunter if that is his desire.

Example: When I lived in Alabama, there were only good populations of deer in a few small areas. This was in the early '60s. I killed a button buck on Christmas morning when I was 23. I called my friends and told them. They all called me a liar since none of them had ever seen a legally killed deer. When they saw the 70 lb. "baby" with 1.5" antlers, they turned me into a local celebrity.

Now those same deer deserts are overrun with deer and the season is long and generous. This really had nothing to do with the B&C Club or trophy hunting. IMO, it had to do with low bag limits, short seasons and hard-working game wardens.
 
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But shooting a young small male with tons of trophy potential and years of breeding opportunities ahead of him is a huge negative to overall herd health in regards to future sustained trophy potential.

Anecdote alert:
A friend was sad to see that she had shot a button buck instead of a worthless doe.

There are far more deer and turkey now than even in my youth. I remember when a buck was a lifetime trophy.
 
I

I disagree. The stopping of market hunting and placing seasons and bag limits is what saved our wildlife. Trophy hunting is relative. If there are only 10 deer in an area, any deer is a trophy and a buck is even better in the eyes of the majority of hunters. When there are thousands of deer, a hunter can be more selective and turn into a trophy hunter if that is his desire.

Example: When I lived in Alabama, there were only good populations of deer in a few small areas. This was in the early '60s. I killed a button buck on Christmas morning when I was 23. I called my friends and told them. They all called me a liar since none of them had ever seen a legally killed deer. When they saw the 70 lb. "baby" with 1.5" antlers, they turned me into a local celebrity.

Now those same deer deserts are overrun with deer and the season is long and generous. This really had nothing to do with the B&C Club or trophy hunting. IMO, it had to do with low bag limits, short seasons and hard-working game wardens.

And of course the cessation of market hunting, low bag limits, short seasons and hard working game wardens were all brought to you by the same guy who started the B&C club. So actually it has a lot to fo with the B&C club.
 
The seven principles of the North American Management system of wildlife conservation were established by B&C member Aldo Leopold and are the guiding principles which we operate by today. The B&C club has supported this system politically and in everything it does. To say that the B&C club had “nothing to do” with wildlife recovery past present and future is simply a gross misunderstanding of the truth.

Aldo Leopold was a professional member of the B&C club BTW.

The seven pillars of the North American Management of wildlife, for those who don’t know it.

https://www.hunter-ed.com/pennsylva...odel-of-Wildlife-Conservation/20103901_88762/
 
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a lot of what finally got big mature deer in my area of sw missouri was nutrition,plain and simple.in the 70's,80's and 90's, there were no row crops here. everything was fescue pasture.
late 90's guys started planting bermuda pasture,soy beans and the king, corn.

when i was a kid i could not tell yu where a corn field was,now i can tell yu where a 100 of them are.no tilling wheat in the fall also helped.

all this leads to more nutrition, more fawns and bigger bucks, or so it has in my area.
 
a lot of what finally got big mature deer in my area of sw missouri was nutrition,plain and simple.in the 70's,80's and 90's, there were no row crops here. everything was fescue pasture.
late 90's guys started planting bermuda pasture,soy beans and the king, corn.

when i was a kid i could not tell yu where a corn field was,now i can tell yu where a 100 of them are.no tilling wheat in the fall also helped.

all this leads to more nutrition, more fawns and bigger bucks, or so it has in my area.

Agriculture has been a huge factor in increased deer population for sure..
 
All deer tags here in Co are draw tags.. DOW issue tags based on buck/doe population for given game units. The better game units take years to draw. Before we had draws you could draw what is still call early buck tag and took me 14 yrs to draw game unit 44 which include units 45/444 in Holy Cross Wilderness. Seen more elk than deer no luck. It took me another 13 yrs draw same unit and had outfitter do drop camp. I did see few bucks but nothing I wanted to shoot.
Prior to the formation of the Boone and Crocket club in 1887 hunting in America was a profession. Market hunting was decimating wildlife at a ferocious rate. There were no seasons or regulations to prevent the mass slaughter of wildlife for food and animal product markets. Animals were killed for their products irregardless of their age or sex, if it was brown it was down. This was completely unsustainable for wildlife. Theodore Roosevelt and George B. Grinnell had traveled and hunted and in particular they had seen the the unregulated rapid paced killing of animals in the American west. They realized that it wouldn’t be long before all wildlife was going to become extinct.

In fact they had organized hunts to collect specimens for our national museums so the we could have historical examples of animals that were rapidly disappearing and soon would be extinct. Roosevelt and Grinnell understood that without swift reform we’d soon be a nation devoid of our national wildlife treasures.

Their solution was to form the Boone and Crocket club. The B&C club mandated fair chase, seasons, licenses and sustainable off take. And in particular they understood that taking older mature males is a net positive to the herd health. That is why they started a score system and henceforth placed value on big older “trophy” males. This system is the foundation of our conservation success and the very reason we have blossoming numbers of wildlife through out the United States.

Those early reforms have grown into the wildlife conservation methods we employ today. I am proud to say that I’m a trophy hunter. As an example when I finally drew my Shiras Moose tag after 17 years of applying in Colorado I passed up 15 mature prime breeding age bulls before finally taking a battered geriatric who was past his prime and carried a declining yet still trophy rack. By doing so it allowed those prime bulls to breed and pass on their genes. It took an old bull out of the eco system who was still fighting younger bulls but was at the end of his breeding years. This old bull was no longer competing for feed or cows making for a healthier herd. Taking old bulls or old dry cows benefits herd health.

Of course this system has been so successful that we are now required to take off females and young males for population purposes and that’s fine too. But it turns my stomach when I see “trophy hunters” being vilified by the press and it really twists me to see other hunters doing it. Doing so is a complete lack of understanding of how we got to where we are today.

Teddy was smart enough to know that conservation was dependent on having people value and the animals and by setting up a regulatory system that allowed the public to hunt and to to do so in a sustainable fashion has worked and worked well. By assigning value to hunting primarily old critters with his score system he started a conservation revolution. We have the best hunting and conservation system on the planet.

I am proud to be a trophy hunter. And by that I mean I’ll hunt for population control where needed, I’ll only kill old mature critters where needed and I harvest all the meat from a juicy young doe or a gamely old bull. I am not a market hunter, I’m not a sustenance hunter, I hunt for the trophy of the experience and thank my maker that I live in a country where I can pursue my passion for wildlife and wild places.

Doesn't B&C support "trophy hunters"

https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/2008/10/new-world-record-elk-part-ii/
 
No trophy pigs in our area, no limits, no season and they are further from extinction than ever.

Private land ownership has a lot to do with that fact though.
 
All deer tags here in Co are draw tags.. DOW issue tags based on buck/doe population for given game units. The better game units take years to draw. Before we had draws you could draw what is still call early buck tag and took me 14 yrs to draw game unit 44 which include units 45/444 in Holy Cross Wilderness. Seen more elk than deer no luck. It took me another 13 yrs draw same unit and had outfitter do drop camp. I did see few bucks but nothing I wanted to shoot.


Doesn't B&C support "trophy hunters"

https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/2008/10/new-world-record-elk-part-ii/

B&C supports your style of hunting 100%. You passed up lesser bucks on your limited draw tags because you were waiting to shoot a bigger more mature buck, AKA “trophy hunting”. That’s the very definition of the type of hunting B&C supports. Your discipline on not shooting an immature buck and supporting herd health is exactly what we’ve been discussing in this thread.
 
Thanks for posting that, I didn’t know the origins of Boone and Crocket. I knew things were bad, very bad in the middle to late 1800’s in regards to hunting and what we today call conservation I have never know why it changed.

I’ve also never understood why people object to trophy hunting, especially fellow hunters.

I personally don’t have a high opinion of Theodore Roosevelt at all, his Presidency was terrible IMO, but I’m glad he got that done.
 
Yep, people today don't realize how few critters there were here at the turn of the century (that one, not this one). Most of the trash talk we hear about "trophy hunting" is just the misguided opinions of the uninformed or those with an agenda.
 
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