Quantcast
  1. Upgrade efforts paused for now. Thanks for your patience. More details in the thread in Tech Support for those who are interested.
    Dismiss Notice

Trump releases policy paper on Second Amendment...

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by CoRoMo, Sep 18, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    California Colorado
    The topics that he touches on...

    Enforce The Laws On The Books
    Endorses Project Exile
    Endorses Concealed Carry

    Fix Our Broken Mental Health System
    Expanding Treatment Programs

    GUN AND MAGAZINE BANS
    Propagandist Terminology, i.e. "Assault Weapons"

    BACKGROUND CHECKS
    [strike]Adding Mental Health Records To The System[/strike]

    NATIONAL RIGHT TO CARRY
    50-State Reciprocity

    MILITARY BASES AND RECRUITING CENTERS
    Lifting Bans On Service Members From Carrying On Duty
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015
  2. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    28,638
    Well he's certainly getting good advice. Whether he's ever personally shared those beliefs or even thought about them before seems iffy
     
  3. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    34,961
    Location:
    Central PA
    Man...he almost seems to be coming off as the sort of guy who maybe paid some folks to figure out EXACTLY what to say to appeal to a certain voting segment.

    Considering that all politicians do (or SHOULD) do that on issues which will be important to their voting base, but that they don't have extremely well-defined personal views on, he's putting on a strong show.
     
  4. Quentin

    Quentin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,826
    Location:
    NorthWest USA
    Now the other candidates and congressmen need to endorse this policy!
     
  5. yugorpk

    yugorpk member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,121
    If I didnt feel he was being completely disingenuous I might even feel like voting for the guy.

    I think he's just trying to split the vote to get his friend Hillary Clinton elected. I could be wrong.
     
  6. PJSprog

    PJSprog Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1,167
    Location:
    Southern Illinois (STL area)
    Like many, I'm still quite skeptical about Mr. Trump. It's still early in the cycle. We'll see how he holds up over time. H. Ross Perot was pretty appealing in the beginning, too.
     
  7. Jim K

    Jim K Member.

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    17,847
    "Man...he almost seems to be coming off as the sort of guy who maybe paid some folks to figure out EXACTLY what to say to appeal to a certain voting segment."

    ALL candidates do that. The only difference is 1) what segment they want to appeal to and 2) who they hire to provide the buzz words. The anti-gun gang once promoted the idea of summary execution for gun owners. They have not changed their minds, only their tactics.

    Jim
     
  8. JSH1

    JSH1 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,745
    Location:
    PDX
    Yes he does. It also sounds like very different views than the views he had before he decided to run for President as a Republican.
     
  9. ol' scratch

    ol' scratch Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,383
    Location:
    South of Hell....Michigan.
    Trump is a side show freak. He is just there to provide a blocker for the Republican Party. He will say anything to get people to listen.
     
  10. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Messages:
    17,651
    Location:
    Elbert County, CO
    So common it is that we have a word dedicated to such pandering:


    demagogue
    or demagog
    [dem-uh-gog, -gawg]

    noun
    1.
    a person, especially an orator or political leader, who gains power and popularity by arousing the emotions, passions, and prejudices of the people.
    2.
    (in ancient times) a leader of the people.
    verb (used with object), demagogued, demagoguing.
    3.
    to treat or manipulate (a political issue) in the manner of a demagogue; obscure or distort with emotionalism, prejudice, etc.


    I'm not on board with that one. Far to many ways it would be abused to deny people their right.
     
  11. Nom de Forum

    Nom de Forum Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,769
    Location:
    Arizona
    What a shame we can't get someone running for president who is not a loon in so many other ways to say the same thing.
     
  12. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Random Guy

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    4,525
    Location:
    Heart of Dixie (Ala)
    In Trumps defense (which I absolutely hate to do) unless I missed it, that's nowhere in that policy paper.

    EDIT:
    Upon rereading It said:

    Too many states are failing to put criminal and mental health records into the system – and it should go without saying that a system’s only going to be as effective as the records that are put into it. What we need to do is fix the system we have and make it work as intended. What we don’t need to do is expand a broken system.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015
  13. BSA1

    BSA1 member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,492
    Location:
    West of the Big Muddy, East of the Rockies and Nor
    Well this much we do know;

    Trump has never held a elected office so he has no voting record.

    Trump said in a interview on July 8, 2015 he has a license to own a gun.

    Trump said in the same interview he owns a gun.

    Trump says he is a Life Member of the NRA.

    Trump said "The Second Amendment is a bedrock natural right of the individual to defend self, family and property. It is a ridiculous notion to ever repeal it."
    Source; Ammoland interview July 11, 2015.
     
  14. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    4,708
    Location:
    TEXAS!
    Trump is a SALESMAN. He makes deals. He tells the other guy what he wants to hear in order to get the deal done. BUT, as we have seen many times, those elected can LIE.

    Trump has no track record. No military experience. No political experience. Just deal making in real estate.

    I can see him useful in a cabinet position but not as president or vp. NO.

    Carly Fiorina at lease RAN the company, HP, she was with. I can see her as at most VP, but more of a cabinet member and one day have a shot at the presidency.

    But Trump.. .Nah, that boy ain't ever gonna learn.

    Deaf
     
  15. danez71

    danez71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    5,736
    Location:
    CA,AZ,CA,TX
    I like how he used "common sense" 3 times and similar phrases even more.


    Speak what is 'common sense' and call out/explain that what the anti's have been saying isn't even logical, let alone 'common sense'.

    An effective tactic is to use your opponents words against them.


    The devil is in the details but, taken on face value, I can get behind all of those.
     
  16. Midwest

    Midwest Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    Messages:
    2,569
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Carly ran HP into the ground

    http://mashable.com/2015/08/25/carly-fiorina-business-record/

    One thing for certain, I'm not voting for Bush. And as for Trump, I'd like to see more of his earlier quotes from years ago regarding guns and the second amendment. He has been around the spotlight for awhile and I'm sure someone can research what said years ago.
    .
     
  17. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    25,965
    What if...

    A tiny corner of my brain has this weird idea that Trump isn't really running for President, he's saying he's running and saying a lot of outrageous things to force discussion on the issues nobody was discussing before... look at his comments about the size of the viewing audience for the debates and that nobody was talking about immigration before he jumped in. (Of course, the rest of my brain is saying, don't be ridiculous, a guy with that big of an ego would be so selfless?!)

    Have not yet read the policy statement at the link but definitely will and regardless of which part of my brain is right I hope his statement gets the other candidates to firm up their positions on RKBA.
     
  18. danez71

    danez71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    5,736
    Location:
    CA,AZ,CA,TX
    I'm from that industry during that time. I'm not a Fiorina 'fan' and I questioned her strategy during the time.

    What the author of that article you linked to didn't mention is that HP board of directors at the time were not well respected.

    I seriously doubt I will be voting for her.

    However, in fairness to Fiorina,
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...member-who-voted-to-fire-fiorina-endorses-her


     
  19. Trent

    Trent Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    25,151
    Location:
    Illinois
    His last public statement about his feelings on gun control (to my knowledge) was in his book from back in 2000, The America We Deserve. He stated he supported a moderate position on guns and supported an assault weapon ban.

    HOWEVER.. that's 15 years ago.

    If we as a gun community are so insular and closed-minded, as to think a person can't change their mind about a topic after a decade and a half, then we should all just pack it up and quit trying to promote a pro-gun agenda at all.

    Seriously that statement released today by Trump was a profound one, with no compromises. Any number of people on THR could have wrote something just like that, and everyone would slap our back and say "well done!"

    We need more allies, not fewer, and to get a well known celebrity to give such a spot-on pro-gun statement should have us all yelling "heck yeah!" - whether they are running for president or not.

    Last I checked gun owners were still a minority and we need all the folks we can get, even if you don't personally like the dude, he sent a message to the whole world.

    When is the last time ANY OF US reached that many people at once with a pro-gun message? That 2nd amendment policy he wrote hit as headline news on every single media outlet out there.
     
  20. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    10,063
    Location:
    Flatlandistan
    Though I never was, and still am not, a fan of Rudy Giuliani, he at least said one thing that was the truth.

    When asked why he wasn't doing certain things he said he would while stumping, he looked at the reporter like he was an idiot and said, "those were campaign promises, you really didn't think I was going to do those things, did you?"
     
  21. Trent

    Trent Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    25,151
    Location:
    Illinois
    Does it matter if he's sincere?

    He gave a really solid and well-written pro-gun policy statement and reached more people with it than any of us ever could.

    Think about that.

    If he's an enemy we sure as heck need more enemies like him!

    Just sayin'!
     
  22. Swing

    Swing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,644
    +1. I, like most, would like to see the fine print. However, as a whole, this about pro-2A as it gets with the current candidates. The nationwide reciprocity, in particular, is nice to see.

    Now if he, or another candidate, would just support the repeal of the Hughes Amendment, we'd really be cook'n. It ain't going to happen, but, hey, one can dream ... ;)
     
  23. Bang!

    Bang! Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Messages:
    574
    Location:
    Mid TN
    Come on folks. Let's give "The Donald" a break. He's just trying to be a good politician. And like all politicians...if their lips are moving, they're lying. (sarcasm)

    Too bad honesty can't be a part of our political process. So yes, let's dig up their records and peel back the layers and find out who they really are. As far as I'm concerned, if you want us to hire you for 'that' job then none of your life is off limits. Way too much at stake here!
     
  24. MartinS

    MartinS Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2004
    Messages:
    859
  25. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    7,340
    "Enforce The Laws On The Books"
    The laws on the book suck. We need someone willing to repeal select laws on the books. "Tough on crime" is and has always been a diversion for politicians looking to act like they are doing something. Project Exile merely enhances penalties for crimes that --far too often-- shouldn't even be crimes in the first place (because crime should be penalized like crime, without special consideration to those evul gunz) and does so mandatorily, which is the stupidest way to govern or enforce justice. Ask Shaneen Allen.

    "Fix Our Broken Mental Health System"
    Oh, good, more severe penalties for gun owners stupid enough to ask for help. The only 'fix' will be to do more data mining & domestic espionage to find 'powder kegs' (or political dissidents, or whatever), make it easier to incarcerate of disenfranchise citizens based on what they might do but haven't yet done, and expand on our already length federal dossiers. But first and foremost, this is a worthless platitude without specifics.

    "GUN AND MAGAZINE BANS"
    Oh good, he says he won't make things worse. Has he said anything about penalizing or encouraging those states --like those he's lived in his whole adult life-- who already have gun, magazine, and ammo bans? Once again, he was a complete 180 on this barely more than ten years ago if not sooner

    "BACKGROUND CHECKS
    Adding Mental Health Records To The System"
    Oh, goody, more federal data-mining! Maybe he'll open an entire Pre-Crime Division? In what way is this a pro-gun position? I thought we were all worried about HIPPA being bypassed for gun control reasons; that's what this is. He said 'mental health records,' not disqualifications, which I think actually puts him to the left of Obama on this issue.

    "NATIONAL RIGHT TO CARRY
    50-State Reciprocity"
    Encouraging, but probably inevitable at this point if it's possible. At least he won't get in the way. Has he said that he's explicitly comfortable with an arrangement where his state of New York would be forced to recognize heathen permits from states with no registration or training requirements? "Reciprocity" champs sometimes get cotton-mouth on that question, since they secretly just want the whole US to reflect their local permitting system, however restrictive it may be.

    "MILITARY BASES AND RECRUITING CENTERS
    Lifting Bans On Service Members From Carrying On Duty"
    Talk about an issue getting about 1000% more attention than it deserves, considering how tiny a fraction of Americans have any exposure whatsoever to it. At least it's the one issue where presidential authority might carry some sort of weight (everything else requires a compliant congress and years of court battles in defense)

    It's pretty weak sauce, but at least it's sauce for a change. Not bad for a New Yorker. I guess I'll take it, until something better comes along. It's a bit discouraging how jaded I'm getting by this whole thing, but it's becoming quite clear the position of president is fundamentally opposed to the right to keep and bear arms (it was from him our rights were being protected by being explicitly included in the Bill of Rights). It's simply not a direction that office is flexible towards, compared to the advantages reaped by increased criminalization and restriction. Trading power and authority for potential blame; yeah right. The best we can hope for is someone who will get out of the way, and keep their bureaucrats from making things even worse (think about how many arbitrary rule changes from that branch come about from unelected, appointed officials and czars)

    TCB
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice