Try my hand at free hand sharpening

[SteadyD]

@SteadyD -- I've been a member over at Bladeforums for a while, but never really did much there. That said, as I've become more interested in sharpening, I've spent a little more time there. I asked a few questions and was directed to a couple of videos. They may be too basic for you, but I found this one particularly helpful.

I’ll try the finger marks. I’m going to order the stones and holder he has and try those as well. I’m spoiled by my wicked edge and KME so until I can consistently get within ~80% of what I can achieve with my guided systems I won’t be springing for any expensive freehand gear.

 

[Spats McGee]

I need to watch the finger-marking trick again. It looks helpful, though. I ordered a set of Ultrasharp plates (coarse & fine), but not the holder. I’ll likely get that soon. Mrs. McGee has Amazon Prime, so they should arrive tomorrow. My Gatco is cooperating much better these days, but I need to get some practice in before I buy more gear

 

[SteadyD]

I need to watch the finger-marking trick again. It looks helpful, though. I ordered a set of Ultrasharp plates (coarse & fine), but not the holder. I’ll likely get that soon. Mrs. McGee has Amazon Prime, so they should arrive tomorrow. My Gatco is cooperating much better these days, but I need to get some practice in before I buy more gear

Keep me posted on your impression of them, if you don’t mind. I likely won’t order for another few weeks given I have bought two expensive knives in the last few weeks.

 

[JohnKSa]

The video looks good. Just to emphasize some points.

• His method of finding the blade angle works ok for a knife that is in decent shape as far as the edge geometry and not too dull. If you want to set a completely different angle or the blade is really dull, you will want to use some other method for getting your blade angle. These work ok. https://www.wayfair.com/kitchen-tab...-pyramid-guide-sharpening-stone-shpl1009.html You just use them to get the blade at the proper angle and then you can do the finger marking like he does. But frankly, you don't really need them. You can look at his video to get an feel for how the blade angle should look and then just get close. The key isn't the exact angle you pick--you just need to not pick a really acute or really obtuse angle and then you need to hold the angle constant while you sharpen.
  
• You don't need a lot of pressure on diamond stones. They cut really well even with light pressure. Heavy pressure just wears them out faster.
• Don't let the blade tip go off the edge of the stone when you're sharpening.
• There's no need to go fast. I see people who apparently think that it's critical to move the knife really fast. It's much harder to hold a good angle if you are moving things really fast.
• He is using the stones dry. I use ceramics and diamond stones dry and that works fine for me, as it does for him. If you like to use the stone wet, go ahead. I've never seen a benefit to using oil or water with ceramics and diamond stones--and cleanup is messier.
• You can check for a burr with your fingernail--it will catch slightly if there's a burr. Another method is to use a cotton swab--the burr will catch fibers from the swab. I never move to the second side until I have a burr from the first side, but it's not a big deal if you want to switch sides before you get a complete burr on one side. The key is that at some point you need a burr that goes the entire length of the edge on one side and then also at some other point, you need to get the same thing on the other side.
• The final sharpening phase must be done with alternating strokes. Pressure at this point can be really light. The edge is already formed, you're just cleaning things up and almost polishing the edge.
• You don't need heavy pressure for stropping--in fact it can actually cause a dulling effect if you use hard pressure with a soft strop.

 

[Spats McGee]

Keep me posted on your impression of them, if you don’t mind. I likely won’t order for another few weeks given I have bought two expensive knives in the last few weeks.

I don’t mind at all.

 

[Spats McGee]

The video looks good. Just to emphasize some points.

• His method of finding the blade angle works ok for a knife that is in decent shape as far as the edge geometry and not too dull. If you want to set a completely different angle or the blade is really dull, you will want to use some other method for getting your blade angle. These work ok. https://www.wayfair.com/kitchen-tab...-pyramid-guide-sharpening-stone-shpl1009.html You just use them to get the blade at the proper angle and then you can do the finger marking like he does. But frankly, you don't really need them. You can look at his video to get an feel for how the blade angle should look and then just get close. The key isn't the exact angle you pick--you just need to not pick a really acute or really obtuse angle and then you need to hold the angle constant while you sharpen.
  
• You don't need a lot of pressure on diamond stones. They cut really well even with light pressure. Heavy pressure just wears them out faster.
• Don't let the blade tip go off the edge of the stone when you're sharpening.
• There's no need to go fast. I see people who apparently think that it's critical to move the knife really fast. It's much harder to hold a good angle if you are moving things really fast.
• He is using the stones dry. I use ceramics and diamond stones dry and that works fine for me, as it does for him. If you like to use the stone wet, go ahead. I've never seen a benefit to using oil or water with ceramics and diamond stones--and cleanup is messier.
• You can check for a burr with your fingernail--it will catch slightly if there's a burr. Another method is to use a cotton swab--the burr will catch fibers from the swab. I never move to the second side until I have a burr from the first side, but it's not a big deal if you want to switch sides before you get a complete burr on one side. The key is that at some point you need a burr that goes the entire length of the edge on one side and then also at some other point, you need to get the same thing on the other side.
• The final sharpening phase must be done with alternating strokes. Pressure at this point can be really light. The edge is already formed, you're just cleaning things up and almost polishing the edge.
• You don't need heavy pressure for stropping--in fact it can actually cause a dulling effect if you use hard pressure with a soft strop.

Thanks. I’ll keep these in mind.

 

[Spats McGee]

As an interesting aside, I just unearthed a Tri-Hone from the Washita Mountain Whetstone Company while clearing stuff out of a room we call the Room of Requirement. I had forgotten that I grabbed it from my parents' place a few months ago. It's probably 30+ years old, and was still in the plastic. Just as interesting, at least for a Law Nerd like me, the WMWC lists Danny Kirschman as the registered agent on the Secretary of State's website. It looks like that's Dan of Dan's Whetstones. I don't guess I'll need to buy Arkansas stones right away.

 

[Spats McGee]

Keep me posted on your impression of them, if you don’t mind.

My plates arrived today. First impressions are good. They are surprisingly heavy for their size, but given their height when laid in the table and the fact that they are pretty slick on the underside, I’ll definitely be ordering the non-skid plate holder.

The Ultrasharp website recommends Krud Kutter as a lubricant for break-in. The Home Depot app only mentioned bottles of a quart and larger, but there was a 4 oz bottle at my local HD store for <$3. It dissolves Sharpie, so I may not use it all the time, but I wanted to follow the instructions for break-in of the plates. Those instructions also said to use the biggest, dullest knife I had for break-in. So I spent a few minutes sawing at a brick with this big boy.


I got it nice and dull, then set about trying to rehab the edge. I did not spend a lot of time on it, but I did not have to. The diamond plates made short work of putting an edge back on that knife.

 

[nettlle]

The blade angle and burr has tiobe controlled. No matter the method of sharpening.

 

[Elkins45]

One of the most shameful ways I have failed to live up to the manliness code in the eyes of my male elders is in my ability to sharpen knives and chain saws. I’ve bought just about every gizmo and miracle guide on the market and still only obtain a decent edge about half the time on about half my knives.

It’s just so frustrating and I’ve spend hours trying to get it right.

 

[Spats McGee]

One of the most shameful ways I have failed to live up to the manliness code in the eyes of my male elders is in my ability to sharpen knives and chain saws. I’ve bought just about every gizmo and miracle guide on the market and still only obtain a decent edge about half the time on about half my knives.

It’s just so frustrating and I’ve spend hours trying to get it right.

If it’s any consolation, I have never even tried to sharpen a chainsaw blade. Heck, I bought my first chainsaw about 2 years ago and it’s not even gas powered!

 

[JohnKSa]

The key to sharpening things is understanding what the burr is. Once you understand that and can achieve a burr at will, then you can sharpen almost anything as long as you take the time to look at what you're sharpening and understand what needs to happen.

The burr is just a convenient way to know for sure that your bevel extends all the way down to the cutting edge. When a knife is dull, the edge is rounded--the bevels don't extend to the cutting edge, they are going down only so far and then there's a rounded/dulled section that extends to the other side of the blade.

Most knives have a double bevel, that is both sides are ground down to similar bevels that meet in the middle. So you form a burr on one side by grinding a bevel on the opposite side until that bevel goes all the way to the edge. Then you do the same on the opposite side. Now you know your bevels meet more or less in the middle and the knife is sharp. From there it's just a matter of cleaning up the edge with a finer grit and getting rid of the burr.

Some knifes have a single bevel. One side is flat, or nearly flat, and the other side has a bevel that is ground to meet the other side. A lot of serrated knifes have scallops with a single bevel--the bevel is only ground on one side of each scallop. When you sharpen a single bevel blade, you only sharpen the side with the bevel. The only thing you do to the other side is knock off the burr that forms with a few very light pressure strokes with the blade held pretty much flat to the stone. Chisels are single bevel blades as are some Japanese knives. If you sharpen the flat side of a single bevel blade, the resulting tool may be very sharp, but it won't function quite the way it was intended to--for one thing you've increased the overall edge angle, for another, things like chisels are supposed to have a cutting edge that is flush with the flat side of the edge to work properly.

Things like chainsaw blades are typically made up of a number of single-bevel blades that are shaped to cut chunks out of the material to be cut. So you only sharpen the beveled side. When you're sharpening things like chainsaw blades (power tool blades), you don't really need to worry about clearing the burr--it will come off really quickly once you start using it.

Scissors are also single bevel blades, but they are sort of a special case. The angle of the cutting edge can be 90 degrees or more and you don't need to make it an acute angle like a knife blade. The bevel just needs to be uniform and meet the inside blade edge (the part of the blade that slides against the opposing blade) cleanly and uniformly along the length of the blade. You NEVER sharpen the inside edge of scissor blades at all--all you need is a very light pressure stroke or two with the inside edge FLAT against a very fine stone to clear the burr once you have sharpened the bevel. If you put any bevel at all on the inside edges the scissors are completely ruined.

Once you understand the point of a burr and can look at a blade to see where the bevel(s) is/are, then from there it's just a matter of making the bevel(s) correct and using the formation of a burr to verify that you've done what needs to be done.

 

[rust collector]

One of the most shameful ways I have failed to live up to the manliness code in the eyes of my male elders is in my ability to sharpen knives and chain saws. I’ve bought just about every gizmo and miracle guide on the market and still only obtain a decent edge about half the time on about half my knives.

It’s just so frustrating and I’ve spend hours trying to get it right.

For saw chain sharpening, the Pferd file unit has been a game changer for me. The Stihl unit is a rebranded Pferd. The files are high quality, the angle markings help, and the flat file works the depth gauges as you sharpen the teeth. Highly recommended. Just be sure to get the proper size for your chain.

There is a bit of zen involved in putting an edge on a blade, and I am still learning. A loupe or high powered magnifier really helps by giving feedback to determine if you are preserving your angles or wallowing them out. A belt grinder is overkill, so I am starting to work with a diamond plate and strop. Once a good edge is achieved, steeling keeps it working for a long time.

 

[Spats McGee]

What's the word, @SteadyD? Any progress?

 

[SteadyD]

No addition of any sharpening gear yet. I did touch up an S30V blade on my Wicked Edge two nights ago. It’ll be a few weeks before I grab those stones. Looking forward to trying them out though I’m still not ready to work on an expensive knife freehand yet. HVe you used yours anymore yet?

 

[Spats McGee]

A little, but not much. I really like them, though. Over the weekend, I grabbed my Leatherman out of my range bag, intending to sharpen on the Tri-Hone. When I went to Sharpie the blade, I could feel the Sharpie catching, which led me to discover some nicks in the blade. The fine diamond made short work of those, and then I used the Tri-Hone on it. I'm not getting things even close to shaving sharp yet, but they're sharper when I'm done than when I begin.

 

[Spats McGee]

@SteadyD - Perhaps I should quit hijacking your thread, but … Remember that garage sale season is upon us. I bought all of the knives shown below for about $7 today. Lots of practice material.

 

[rust collector]

Nice purchase! Should provide hours of practice.

 

[Spats McGee]

Keep me posted on your impression of them, if you don’t mind. I likely won’t order for another few weeks given I have bought two expensive knives in the last few weeks.

I know I said I was done buying gear. Honest, I do (even though I'm itching to buy a Hapstone rig). But my Sharpening Stone Holder just came in & Mrs. McGee is going to visit our kiddo at college for the weekend on Friday. I'll undoubtedly spend a little time practicing and I'll let you know how well it works.

 

[SteadyD]

I know I said I was done buying gear. Honest, I do (even though I'm itching to buy a Hapstone rig). But my Sharpening Stone Holder just came in & Mrs. McGee is going to visit our kiddo at college for the weekend on Friday. I'll undoubtedly spend a little time practicing and I'll let you know how well it works.

Nice, if you get time post a before and after pic of your bevel. What grit will you be finishing on? Will you be stropping?

I’m probably two or so weeks away from ordering my bench stones and I’ll be getting something like that to hold them as well.

 

[Spats McGee]

I ripped open the box as soon as I got home, and (as I expected), this thing fits my water stone, too. For obvious reasons, the Ultrasharp plates are an almost exact fit, hanging over on the sides maybe 1/16" or so. My water stone (which I'm kind of learning to like) is smaller in both length and width, but the base will clamp down on it. The base gets a good, firm hold on the stones and really doesn't slide. I have it sitting on a Tekmat to keep water or oil off of the dinner table, and that's working pretty well. You know, aside from all the shredded paper around me....

Nice, if you get time post a before and after pic of your bevel. What grit will you be finishing on? Will you be stropping?....

I'm not sure my bevels are worth photographing yet. I might post pics, but I'm kind of afraid that bikerdoc might come back to haunt me.

I've got a variety of knives to sharpen right now, stainless, S30V, 154CM, 8CrsomethingorotherMoV, so I'll probably finish on a couple of different stones. I have an Arkansas fine and a 1000 grit water stone. I feel like I should like the Arkansas stone better, but I know that part of that is just because I'm from Arkansas. The 1000 grit water stone is a Sharp Pebble 400/1000 grit water stone that I bought on Amazon at the recommendation of a friend who's a chef. Wasn't sure I'd like it at first, but the more I do this, the more I like it.

Strops . . . . My original mission in garage sale-ing last weekend was to find a belt. 5 garage sales and not one belt for sale. So I hit Goodwill, and found a belt. That was promptly claimed by Mrs. McGee, as her old belt was falling apart. So now I have Mrs. McGee's old belt, of which I've split the layers of leather for the strop. But I haven't built the strop, and I don't have any stropping compound. So if I strop at all, I'll have to improvise.

 

[SteadyD]

I ripped open the box as soon as I got home, and (as I expected), this thing fits my water stone, too. For obvious reasons, the Ultrasharp plates are an almost exact fit, hanging over on the sides maybe 1/16" or so. My water stone (which I'm kind of learning to like) is smaller in both length and width, but the base will clamp down on it. The base gets a good, firm hold on the stones and really doesn't slide. I have it sitting on a Tekmat to keep water or oil off of the dinner table, and that's working pretty well. You know, aside from all the shredded paper around me....


I'm not sure my bevels are worth photographing yet. I might post pics, but I'm kind of afraid that bikerdoc might come back to haunt me.

I've got a variety of knives to sharpen right now, stainless, S30V, 154CM, 8CrsomethingorotherMoV, so I'll probably finish on a couple of different stones. I have an Arkansas fine and a 1000 grit water stone. I feel like I should like the Arkansas stone better, but I know that part of that is just because I'm from Arkansas. The 1000 grit water stone is a Sharp Pebble 400/1000 grit water stone that I bought on Amazon at the recommendation of a friend who's a chef. Wasn't sure I'd like it at first, but the more I do this, the more I like it.

Strops . . . . My original mission in garage sale-ing last weekend was to find a belt. 5 garage sales and not one belt for sale. So I hit Goodwill, and found a belt. That was promptly claimed by Mrs. McGee, as her old belt was falling apart. So now I have Mrs. McGee's old belt, of which I've split the layers of leather for the strop. But I haven't built the strop, and I don't have any stropping compound. So if I strop at all, I'll have to improvise.

I was inspired to break out my low rent worksharp sharpener I’ve been using and freehand on a Spyderco 8CRblahblahblah myself. I’ll get some pics. The bevel looks awful but it’s slicing paper cleanly. It won’t shave which is unacceptable to me. I won’t touch one of my “fancy” steels until I can get good with the more pedestrian steels. Before I started I completely cut off the edge by raking it against a 220 grit stone so that it wouldn’t cut anything at all.

 

[Spats McGee]

I just took it for a test drive on a stainless Kershaw. Absolutely, 100%, get the base. They're <$20 and having a stable base makes it a whole lot easier to sharpen on the plates. Enough so that I began to wonder if I could pry my Arkansas stones off of the Tri-Hone and just use the base. I will try to upload a pic of my bevel in a minute. Be gentle, I'm not near shaving sharp yet.

 

[Spats McGee]

My Kerhaw Volt. It may still have a little Sharpie on it.

 

[JohnKSa]

When you are doing your sharpening stroke, the blade has to be sort of angled as you get to the tip area. If you have a perfectly straight-edged knife (like a straight razor or a cleaver) then you can get the angle right and then just move the blade back and forth on the stone.

When you are doing a knife with a belly, then to maintain the proper edge-angle, you have to alter the knife angle throughout the stroke since at the tip the edge is facing much more forward towards the tip while near the hilt, the edge is at right angles to the tip. When I'm doing it I either raise the knife handle up a bit as the stroke gets to towards the tip, or maybe do the change with the stone if I'm holding the stone in one hand.

The way I learned to get this right was to move the blade very slowly across the stone watching the edge of the knife closely the whole time. It's not hard to see how it needs to be near the hilt and where the blade is mostly straight--then when you get towards the tip and the belly starts to curve the edge, you just try to make the edge meet the stone the same way it's been doing for the straight part of the blade.

Hard to describe, not hard to do.

I still move the knife over the stone pretty slowly compared to what I see others doing. One good stroke with a controlled angle is going to make a lot more progress than a ton of strokes with varying angles--you can actually end up working against yourself if the angle is changing too much from stroke to stroke.

I admit that while getting the knife sharp is always the goal, I enjoy the process so it's easy for me to not rush through it. I find the process relaxing and satisfying. When everything is working right, it feels good to make each stroke just like the one before it and to see the progress.