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Trying ipsc after idpa

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by RM, Oct 13, 2005.

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  1. RM

    RM Member

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    I have been shooting idpa for over a year and was thinking of trying ipsc, limited class. What are the fundamental differences in rules and in style in going from idpa to ipsc? (I know to expect stages with higher round counts and more targets.)
    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2005
  2. HSMITH

    HSMITH Member

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    For me the fundamental difference was going forward instead of backing up while shooting. Another big one was reloading when the time was right instead of when the stage was set up for a reload, even if it means dropping a mag with some ammo in it.

    My local IDPA crowd structures the stages so tightly that the decision making process is eliminated, the USPSA gang leaves it all out there for you to figure out on most stages.

    Good IDPA shooters have come out and done quite well at USPSA shoots. I don't think you will have any real hitches. As always safety is the main concern, and fun after that at USPSA shoots.

    I enjoy USPSA much more than IDPA. If USPSA would come out with a 'carry' class I would forget IDPA ever existed.......
     
  3. ted murphy

    ted murphy Member

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    First thing you should do is go to the web page and skim over the rules. http://www.uspsa.org. There are things that can burn you. Example: Mulitple hits on a penalty target (up to 2 I think) count, and penalty targets are impenetrable. It's a long book but not a terrible read. Lots of the info is skimmable, but be sure to read the equipment and safety rules well.

    The scoring system weighs speed over accuracy. It doesn't mean you can shoot all C's, (rough equivalent to the -1 zone) but you have to find a different balance.

    Shooting boxes and foot faults are used instead of cover rules. Don't forget them. I've zeroed (got so many penalties my score was zero) several stages because I stepped out of a box and fired several shots. It's a simple system, but you have to be mindful that it is there. As long as you stand in or on the box (but not over) or fault line, you are good to go.

    You can speed load, which means you can drop the magazine wherever you please whenever you want, regardless of how much ammo there is in it. If you've shot only IDPA for now, you may find this eerily fun to do. You can tac load/RWR/slide lock load if you want to though. Your call.

    Depending on division there are less restrictons on equipment but the basic fundamentals are similar. Shoot quickly, accurately and safely.
     
  4. ted murphy

    ted murphy Member

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    They tried that a few years ago as an experiment IIRC. Late nineties i think.

    Ted
     
  5. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    USPSA has the 180 degree safety rule.

    The other big change is that most stages are "freestyle" -- you figure it out.
     
  6. faustulus

    faustulus Member

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    As you pointed out the big difference is round count, well that and 75 foot head shots.
    There is much less structure to the course, you have to think more how to approach a stage. A good idea is watch other shooters and see what they are doing, (what order they engage the targets, when they reload, etc)
    and the last thing is there is a bit more movement than your typical IDPA stage.
    As others have said. Be safe and you'll have a great time. It is addictive.
    Now your real problem will be going back to IDPA and doing a fumble reload after getting used to the speed reload.
     
  7. lmccrock

    lmccrock Member

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    USPSA has Production Division, which is double-action and "Glock"-action guns with limited modifications and limitations on holsters. 10-round max in the gun, but that means carrying 4 (or more) mags. There is a new, provisional, optional single-stack division. USPSA rules are at http://www.uspsa.org/rules/.

    USPSA Limited means load up your magazines to the max, and even put on extended basepads if it pleases you (as long as the length is less than 140mm). One of my Glock mags has a Dawson extension for 22 rounds of 9mm, so that means 40 rounds with 1 reload. Limited is usually high-cap, 1911-style .40s but there are some Glocks in there as well.

    USPSA power factor scoring comes in as well. Hitting the A zone is the same 5 points regardless of power factor. Major PF gets 1 more point than minor PF for B, C, and D hits. So, accuracy counts.

    Lee
     
  8. 196pc

    196pc Member

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    USPSA has a higher round count and is more "freestyle" than IDPA. "Penalties" are different in how they are given (or earned) as well. I shot at a combo IDPA/USPSA fun match where two stages were IDPA and two were USPSA stages. Lots of fun and thinking (confusion) involved. It was also a good way to get both schools involved in each other's "game". At the end the IDPA shooters were gonna try USPSA matches rather than the other way around. And yes.....I shoot USPSA. I tried IDPA, but after years of USPSA matches it wasn't for me (Gotta rest one weekend in a month to keep the family happy). Both are fun. If USPSA wasn't around my area I would shoot IDPA though. Try both and have fun.
     
  9. Gary G23

    Gary G23 Member

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    You'll have to learn to not use cover, shoot targets in the wrong order, and other gamer tricks that will get you killed in the real world.
     
  10. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I prefer IDPA but do not consider it combat training.
    As far as those match techniques that "will get you killed in the real world" I think a well rated competitive shooter would kill his first assailant so suddenly that any other(s) would flee... or freeze and die. Sustained gunfights against multiple armed, skilled, and determined assailants where "tactics" dominate seldom occur in self defense. Read The Armed Citizen in the American Rifleman.
     
  11. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    After shooting some force on force, I tend to think that using the same tactics in every situation is a bad idea. Dynamic situations with real assailents are not scripted (not by you anyway), and you have to figure it out for yourself in real-time. You want to "game reality"-- to manipulate time, space, and psychology (ie OODA) with maximum flexibility to your advantage.

    Both sports will help someone practice/develop marksmanship, gunhandling, and speed. Neither really addresses mindset to any meaningful extent.
     
  12. Jeeper

    Jeeper Member

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    IPSC will get you killed [​IMG]
     
  13. jdkelly

    jdkelly Member

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    A lot of shooters transition from IDPA to IPSC as their main game.
    IPSC is faster, doesn't use a cover garment (known as the shoot me first vest), and has fewer limits on equipment.
    There will be more rounds per stage and you will get to creatively solve the shooting problem. For the most part you will be limited as to what you can shoot at by stage design and your ability.

    You'll most likely be shooting at longer distances and in more contorted stances after moving longer distances you would in IDPA. Your shooting will likely need to improve in these areas.

    The USPSA ROs seem to be much better trained then the IDPA SOs (I went through IDPA SO training), so more of their ROs seem to be on the "same" page, USPSA seems to have fewer "judgement" calls involved.

    Someone said something about USPSA getting you killed in real life.
    What ever you do don't mistake either IDPA or USPSA/IPSC as self defense training. They are both just games, nothing more!


    Respectfully,


    jkelly
     
  14. richardschennberg

    richardschennberg Member

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    Dont' do it ;-) Too addictive and too much fun!
    Get ready for more accuracy, more speed, and an occasional extra point for more power (DVC).
    Richard
    Schennberg.com
     
  15. faustulus

    faustulus Member

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    :rolleyes:
    RM,
    This is Internet attitude, you will probably not see this at matches, so don't let it worry you.
    Go out and have fun. Any day on the range is better than a day infront of the tube or computer.:)
     
  16. DrKyle1

    DrKyle1 Member

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    I think you should go for it! I love IPSC shooting I spend 2 weekends of the month shooting IDPA and 2 shooting IPSC. Personally I chose to go the production class in IPSC as I shoot SSP in IDPA and the same power factor for both - floor is 125pf... I shoot about 129 out of my G35 and it is softer than my girlfriends 9mm! For IPSC as some have pointed out... less "rules" than IDPA and much more run & gun - but don't be surprised to find one or two sweet spots where you can shoot most targets from! Reload on the run and it is bad very bad to have to reload from slide lock in IPSC. Don't worry about stowing the mag as in IDPA... never understood that on... not like I carry around loose bullets to reload the mags or am going to duck into the sporting goods store to get more and go back to the gunfight! Anyway that is my two cents.
     
  17. Island Beretta

    Island Beretta Member

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    All good tools to have in your toolbox..prefer the freestyle and wider range of IPSC..
     
  18. mattjoe

    mattjoe Member

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    "You'll have to learn to not use cover, shoot targets in the wrong order, and other gamer tricks that will get you killed in the real world."

    You can't even back up that ignorant statement can you?

    If you can, please state name, location and classification of the ipsc/uspsa shooter killed in the real world while he or she was trying to defend himself or others from an attacker, while he or she was armed. Please also point us to a verifiable news article describing those people getting themselves killed.

    If you can't provide that information, don't bother to spout such nonsense.

    Cardboard doesn't shoot back, to think one game is better than the other for good training for a real life attack is just stupid.
     
  19. sarhog

    sarhog Member

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    Nothing like sticking to "The High Road".:rolleyes:
     
  20. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Yes, and don't play golf or poker either, they have no self defense application at all. :rolleyes:
     
  21. 444

    444 Member

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    These threads, unfortunately, always turn into an us vs. them or my sport is better than your sport conflict.

    At my local club, I think there is SOME effort made to try and make the IDPA matches at least somewhat realistic and to provide some training for "real life". A couple examples: at least one match a years is shot in the dark with flashlights. I was at a match were the senario was given and the first shooter said, "I wouldn't even draw my gun, I am sitting in my car with it running, so I would floor it and leave the situation". They guy was credited for a max score for resolving the situation without firing a shot.
    Bottom line, IMO and in my experience, IDPA does make some attempt to provide citizens who carry concealed with some training for real life. Note that I said, SOME TRAINING". This doesn't mean that shooting IDPA is a complete course, but it does teach you gun handling with practical guns, concealment, and at least here flashlight.
    IPSC makes no attempt at all to be "practical" The guns used by some competitors are designed strictly for this one application (IPSC) and would never be carried concealed. The goal of most IPSC matches is to have a high round count, afterall, shooting is why we are there to begin with. Sound defensive shooting tactics have no place in IPSC: it is purely a game with no illusions of anything else.
    I have enjoyed both, but IPSC certainly wins out as being more fun. Anytime you shoot more, it is going to be more fun. Either one will improve your gun handling skills greatly.
     
  22. 444

    444 Member

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    Something that I considered to be interesting: I occasionally shoot a steel plate match at our club. Almost all the shooters at this match are IPSC shooters and race guns are allowed. If you choose to NOT shoot a race gun, you will be shooting against race guns head to head. FWIW I shoot a bone stock 1911. Anyway, it is a lot of fun to see how revolver shooters and the few guys with regular guns shoot compared to the race gun shooters. Bottom line, a lot of the race gun shooters spray and pray. They have magazines that hold like 30 rounds. They point the gun in the general direction of the target and start hosing. If you are pretty good with your 8 shot 1911, you can usually beat these guys: BUT you CAN'T miss. You have to make every shot count or you will lose. Obviously there are race gun shooters that are really good with them: they still have the same mentality and still often miss, but they end up firing far fewer rounds and always kick my butt.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2005
  23. faustulus

    faustulus Member

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    actually the goal is to have fun, which I am pretty sure is the goal of all games.
    Another goal would be to shoot smoothly and accuratly, now you may not believe it this can have real world applications as well.
    Both are games, neither are particularlly good for training. Both will polish your skill sets and that is a good thing.
     
  24. sigstroker

    sigstroker Member

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    Those rules don't say anything about 10 rounds max.

    Oops, I see the U.S. version does. They should bag that, it's been over ayear since the sunset.
     
  25. Morgan

    Morgan Member

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    I disagree. The ten round max makes planning how you shoot a stage more challenging, as well as making virtually any gun potentially competetive, adding variety and options.
     
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