Trying to identify my smith and wesson 38

[machinisttx]

Crap, I missed the 3rd X and mistakenly thought it was a 5 digit serial number.


Old Fuff, what can you tell me about the gun I posted a picture of earlier? Serial number is 984,XXX, no prefix, number offset to make room for the lanyard loop. From what I have been able to find out so far, it was likely made in 1941 and probably shipped to a government agency.

Curiously, it still has the old style hammer block and a long action but has the new style double action sear.

 

[Old Fuff]

Old Fuff, what can you tell me about the gun I posted a picture of earlier? Serial number is 984,XXX, no prefix, number offset to make room for the lanyard loop. From what I have been able to find out so far, it was likely made in 1941 and probably shipped to a government agency.

It’s one of the last revolvers made in the original K-frame serial number series that started in 1899 and ended on April 24, 1942 when they reached 999,999 and the machine that stamped the numbers wouldn't go any higher. At that point they started a new series with the letter prefix "V" at V 1. If it's a .38-200 without any British or British related, proof marks and military ownership stamps on it you are probably right. Distribution of handguns to domestic police forces and defense plants were arranged through an agency named the Defense Supply Corporation, or DSC. Any and all handguns manufactured from 1942 through the end of the war in 1945 either went to the military services, were exported to allies, or to the DSC. There was no commercial market at the time.

Curiously, it still has the old style hammer block and a long action but has the new style double action sear.

Shouldn't be, but one never knows. Does it have a notch in the hammer face under the firing pin for a hammer block to nest in? It almost has to be a post-war replacement. When dealing with Smith & Wesson I know it is not a good idea to say, “never happened.”

 

[machinisttx]

No, it's marked as a .38 S&W Special and has a 4" barrel. I wouldn't have purchased it if it had been the .38 S&W simply because I know some of them were poorly converted to fire .38 Special. DSC was the name of the agency I couldn't put my finger on. Mine is pretty much identical to the Navy stamped Victory my father has, with the exception of not having ordnance dept acceptance marks, etc. on it.

I just checked a picture I have of the hammer next to an original and it does have the notch for the new style hammer block. Still, in comparing this to known long action guns, mine does appear to have the long action????????

Thanks for the info!

 

[Old Fuff]

Being pressed for time, I didn't go back and look up your earlier post, and just presumed it was a .38-200.

It may or may not have been a DSC revolver. Pearl Harbor was bombed on December 7, 1941, and while I was young I still remember trying to wake up my father and tell him. Three weeks later it was 1942. Within those three weeks president Roosevelt had issued the order to put the previously organized DSC into action. Only Roy Jinks at Smith & Wesson can tell you if it shipped before the DSC took over or not. That information will cost you a reasonable $50. As a point of reference, the U.S. Navy bought 3000 .38 M&P commercial revolvers in .38 Special / 4" Barrels / with lanyard loop, around March-April-May, 1941 with serial numbers in the mid 740,000 to high 752,000 range. Concerning your revolver, keep in mind that there can be a vast difference as to when the frame was serial numbered and when the finished gun left the factory. This was especially true at this time of history.

As for the hammer. Long-action hammers designed to use the new hammer block were first used starting in January, 1945. An "S" was added before the "V" serial number prefix, and the first one was SV 769,000. Thereafter S&W continued to make new revised revolvers while retro-fitting older ones. All of the ones I have seen had the wide D.A. sear.

The first short-action hammers had the narrow sear, and were introduced with the new K-22 Masterpiece target revolvers that came out in December, 1946.

Short-action/narrow sear Military & Police .38's didn't come about until February 1948. Post-war, long-action M&P production (with the new hammer block) started in September 1945 and continued for a short time after the short-action was introduced. Post-war / long action .38 M&P revolvers have serial numbers that have an "S" prefix that started at S 811,120

I have never seen one, but it is possible that to complete some of the long-action .38's they made some long-action hammers to take the then current narrow sear. If so, Roy Jinks would know. Then at a later date, it is possible that someone replaced the original hammer in your gun and in its place installed a long-action/narrow sear one. I can't see any other way to explain it.

 

[machinisttx]

Thanks Old Fuff. I've read about everything I can find on the M&P from that time period, but I haven't sent off for the factory letter yet.

Until I have some concrete information from Mr. Jinks, I'll have to assume the hammer was replaced at a later date.

 

[Deanimator]

Hi, welcome to THR. Your description of the revolver is a bit too vague. If you open the cylinder, the model number should be listed on the frame below where the ejector rod fits in). If there's a dash followed by a number, it refers to a particular upgrade for that model (i.e. 10-2: model 10, upgrade 2).

No model numbers on S&Ws until 1957.

 

[Old Fuff]

machinisttx:

If the information you have posted is correct (and I have no reason to doubt it) the revolver dates from 1940 or '41 - although is could have been assembled later. The hammer with the notch in the face for the new (and current) hammer block didn't come about until 1945. So I would say that without question that the hammer must be a replacement - unless for some reason the revolver wasn't assembled until after 1945 - and that's unlikely. Only Roy Jinks would know for sure.

One onther point: If the entire action wasn't updated to use the new hammer block, and that would require a new sideplate as well as a rebound slide, and hammer, plus the hammer block itself, and the gun still has the old-style hammer block mounted in the sideplate; THAT SAFETY WON'T WORK! Why? Because of the large notch in the hammer face. If you carry, shoot, or keep this revolver loaded, BE SURE THE HAMMER IS RESTING ON AN EMPTY CHAMBER.

 

[machinisttx]

Old Fuff:

The rebound slide and sideplate/sideplate hammer block are original and have not been altered. If I'm at the range shooting the gun, I load all six. If I were to carry it or leave it loaded, I would indeed leave an empty case in the chamber under the hammer. I already had this practice due to the weakness of the old style safety and hadn't even considered the safety being 100% useless because of the notched hammer. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I do have an original hammer(obtained from a generous fellow on the S-W forum), but the single action notch on it is ruined(appears someone did a little too much stoning and cut through the case hardening) so it's in the parts bin.

 

[Old Fuff]

Check Numrich Gunparts Corp. at: www.e-gunparts.com

They did have hammers, both stripped and with the double-action sear and mainspring stirrup. But since there are so many different flavors of K-frame hammers be sure the specify "long action," and include the serial number of your revolver.