Trying to load M2 Ball for M1 Rifle

[D.B. Cooper]

Before I start, I should say, the people here have been phenomenal as I get up and running and back into reloading. Many thanks.

I'd like to venture out beyond the pistol loading I've been doing, so I think loading M2 Ball replicated ammo for my M1 Garand is up next. I've loaded for this gun before, years ago, and with the knowledge I now have, it seems like I was doing it way wrong.

I've searched here and elsewhere, and it seems like 47-48 grains of 4895 is the go to load. If that is correct, then my bigger questions are around which projectile, brass, and primer to use and what is the best set of dies for loading this cartridge. (This is the ONLY 30-06 I will be loading for)

Projectiles: As I see it, I have about 2-3 practical options, ruling out all of the high-end, high-performance stuff, and sticking to something similar to a 150 grn FMJ.

Hornady and PPU both make 150 grn FJ and the PPU is cheaper. Hornady also makes a 150 grn something like a power-point with exposed lead tip (which is cheaper than their FMJ). I won't be hunting with the M1, so the only reason to buy power-point type ammo would be cost.

PPU is the cheapest I've seen, and PPU factory M2 ammo is what I've been shooting for a while now. My only expectation is about 1-1.5 MOA and terminal performance as expected from the original cartridge. (In other words, turns cover into concealment.)

Brass. Brass is expensive. Cheapest I've found is enough to make the loaded round cost as much as cheap Winchester Super-X loaded ammo. I have a bunch of South Korean surplus. I hear the primer holes are off center. If they turn out to be unreloadable, I have about 500 rds of loaded PPU I can reload as I shoot. Unless you guys know of cheap source for 30-06 brass, I think my plan is to just buy cheap Win. SuperX, put it the aftermarket gas plug, and shoot it, just to get the brass.

Primers. The Lyman book states that CCI No. 34 is mil spec for LR size primers. Should go out of my way to find those, or will any LR primer do?

 

[Havok7416]

Get yourself a Hornady loading manual. Versions 7th and newer at the very least have M1 specific load data and it's worth it.

I've never found brass to matter IME.

Regarding primers, you can load regular primers, but I advise highly against it. Slamfiring can occur and is highly probable (I did it more than once before I learned).

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

http://masterpostemple.bravepages.com/M1load.htm

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have been loading for the M1 Garand for a while now and I have a very good load I'm happy with.

I'm using Greek made surplus brass I got from shooting CMP ammo but I have used commercial Winchester, Remington and Federal brass with equal success.

I bought 150gr M2 bullets in bulk and I have used 147gr M80 bullets pulled from 7.62x51 NATO ammo too. Most any 150gr and 168gr match bullet will be fine. Unfortunately since Widener's sold to a new owner the bulk M2 bullets have not been available.

I'm using a CCI #34 primer or a CCI-250 primer.

Under a 150gr bullet in charging 47.0gr H4895. That's not near the max charts weight but it's accurate in all the M1 rifles I've shot it in. This is a light load according to the Master Po's website which lists 49.0gr as the max with a M2 bullet.

So, 47.0gr H4895 under a 150gr bullet with a CCI #34 primer. The OAL I'm using is 3.320" duplicating the CMP M1 ammo.

If you are going to compete with your M1 load a 168gr Hornady or Sierra match bullet over the same charge.

http://masterpostemple.bravepages.com/M1load.htm
https://www.buffaloarms.com/308-diameter-150-grain-fmj-jacketed-bullets-m2-ball-ppu308150fmj
http://www.surplusammo.com/categories/reloading-components/bullets.html

 

[Dudedog]

RMR has pulled M80 bullets
https://www.rmrbullets.com/products...80-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-bullets-pulled
1000/$160 -the THR 5% would be $152 a k

 

[D.B. Cooper]

RMR has pulled M80 bullets
https://www.rmrbullets.com/products...80-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-bullets-pulled
1000/$160 -the THR 5% would be $152 a k

holy crap. free shipping to Alaska?! too good to be true.

Do you know the code to enter for the discount?

 

[Dudedog]

PM with code sent.
I knew they shipped free to the lower 48 for free didn't know Alaska was free as well.
Cool for everybody up there, might save a few $$.

 

[rg1]

The real 150 M2 FMJ-FB bullets shoot much better in my M1's than does the M80 147 FMJ BT. However pulled or new M2 150 FMJ-FB are hard to find or non-existent. I think the bullets listed above, I'd pick the PPU .308 M2 from Buffaloarms. Hornady's .308 150 FMJ's are another good choice. ll

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You are correct, I like the M2 bullets better than the M80. The profile is for sure different and each were designed for the cartridge they were originally shot in. I tried the PPU bullets and they worked well, that's why I posted the link even though they are costly. I only shot 100 though.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

The real 150 M2 FMJ-FB bullets shoot much better in my M1's than does the M80 147 FMJ BT. However pulled or new M2 150 FMJ-FB are hard to find or non-existent. I think the bullets listed above, I'd pick the PPU .308 M2 from Buffaloarms. Hornady's .308 150 FMJ's are another good choice. ll

You are correct, I like the M2 bullets better than the M80. The profile is for sure different and each were designed for the cartridge they were originally shot in. I tried the PPU bullets and they worked well, that's why I posted the link even though they are costly. I only shot 100 though.

You guys think that 3 grains of weight makes that much of a difference? What's different about the shape? (I only have web photos to go by.)

 

[ArchAngelCD]

It's not at all the 3 grains of weight.

I'm not well versed in bullet construction so it's hard to explain the differences but I'll try. First off the M2 bullet is not a boattail. Secondly the ojive is different. I'm sure there are other differences that can't be seen and the B.C. Is probably different for each. At 100 yards you probably won't see much of a difference but even @200 yards I can see better accuracy. Maybe it's just my imagination but each bullet was designed for a different cartridge and those differences were built in for a good reason known only to the ballistic engineers lol.

I'm sure someone can explain it better but I tried...

 

[Laphroaig]

I started my M1 loading with the M80 bullets, and have shot 2500 of them in the past. Actually, I thought they flew pretty well. My hand loads were definitely more accurate than a batch of Lake City M2 ball I compared them to at that time.

There probably are better options (I don't use them any more myself) but I'd buy some and give them a try considering the price.

 

[Charlie98]

I have been loading 47grn IMR4895 under any ~150grn FMJ bullet for my M1 Garand for almost 25 years. Excellent accuracy, doesn't beat the action to death.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

The PPU M2 ball projectile is 23¢/rd and the Hornady 150 grn BT is 20¢ at Graf n Sons. I'm going to order 100 rds of each and try them out as well as the M80 projectiles. That will probably keep me busy all summer.

I've read that the Hornady crimp groove is in the wrong place on the bullet, that if you seat to the crimp groove, you will have a cartridge with too short of OAL for the M1. From what I've read, people crimp below the groove and it seems to work well enough, just looks weird. I wonder how that plays out with keeping the bullets from being driven down into the case under recoil.

 

[Charlie98]

I use the Prvi (PPU) 145grn bullets in both my 7.62mm and .30-06 M1 loads, it works well enough. I also have a stash of Hornady 150grn FMJ's that have the cannelure higher than a normal M80 bullet; I was told they are specifically for the .30-06/M1 to reduce the loaded OAL slightly.

L to R: Winchester, Prvi, Hornady



I also use the CCI #34 primer because it's what I have, otherwise I would just use a standard LR primer.

EDIT: I do NOT seat to cannelure in 7.62mm, I seat and crimp in the cannelure for .30-06.

 

[Walkalong]

the Hornady 150 grn BT is 20¢ at Graf n Sons

Those are good stuff for FMJ, at least in 300 BLK and .308. Don't have any experience with the PPU bullet.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I use the Prvi (PPU) 145grn bullets in both my 7.62mm and .30-06 M1 loads, it works well enough. I also have a stash of Hornady 150grn FMJ's that have the cannelure higher than a normal M80 bullet; I was told they are specifically for the .30-06/M1 to reduce the loaded OAL slightly.

L to R: Winchester, Prvi, Hornady

View attachment 774980

I also use the CCI #34 primer because it's what I have, otherwise I would just use a standard LR primer.

EDIT: I do NOT seat to cannelure in 7.62mm, I seat and crimp in the cannelure for .30-06.

Interesting. I wonder what the reasoning is for shortening the OAL in the M1. As I understand that a.) drives up chamber pressure and b.) might negatively impact accuracy. I am under the belief that, for best accuracy, one should set the OAL so that the projectile is just off of the grooves and land. I've painted a loaded bullet, loaded it into the chamber and set the bullet depth at the point where there is just barely a nick in the paint then backed off 1/4 turn. Perhaps that only applies to bolt guns.

 

[mdi]

I've only been reloading for my Garand for 9 years. At first I bought some pulls and yep, they worked OK. I wasn't overly concerned with accuracy, I wanted to "get used" to reloading 30-06 Garand ammo. I have discovered after about 2,000-2,500 rounds pulls are not really as accurate as any "modern" FMJ bullet, I have had no slam fires with CCI Large /rifle, and Wolf Large Rifle primers. I found that with HXP, Hornady and R-P brass, and Hornady or Nosler bullets a crimp is not needed. I got 98% of my load data from Hornady's manual and a few loads from Master Po/NRA (started at least 1 grain below Master Po's data)...

 

[ray15]

Brass. Brass is expensive. Cheapest I've found is enough to make the loaded round cost as much as cheap Winchester Super-X loaded ammo. I have a bunch of South Korean surplus. I hear the primer holes are off center. If they turn out to be unreloadable, I have about 500 rds of loaded PPU I can reload as I shoot. Unless you guys know of cheap source for 30-06 brass, I think my plan is to just buy cheap Win. SuperX, put it the aftermarket gas plug, and shoot it, just to get the brass.

Someone posted in the reloading components sale forum looking for 30-06 brass, and two guys responded that had some. I've got 130 pieces of really nice once-fired RP, decapped and wet-tumbled. I'll sell mine for $30 + shipping. I think both the guys that responded to the WTB had more.

 

[rg1]

Older Hornady manuals listed their 150 FMJ overall length at 3.262". That put the cannelure out in front of the case mouth. The last few editions show overall length as tested at 3.185" in the M1 Garand section. This puts the cannelure at the case mouth. I've shot them at both lengths in different Garands and they fed and functioned fine without a noticeable difference in accuracy. This difference in seating depths does not cause any pressure issues with the same Garand level powder charges. Shot both lengths with 47-47.5 grains of IMR 4895 using RP 9 1/2 primers in LC, Rem, Win, and HXP brass.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I wonder if I should just use my surplus M2 ball (South Korean) to set my bullet depth, regardless of bullet and cannelure?

 

[1KPerDay]

Ignore the cannelure. With proper neck tension you don't need to crimp anyway.

 

[tcoz]

I’ve loaded nothing but Hornady 150gr FMJBT projectiles in my M1 for at least five years. They’re a good FMJ bullet and much more than adequate for everyday use in your M1.

If you aren’t already a member, join the CMP forum. There are always a number of people selling Greek HXP brass for a very reasonable price on there.

As far as primers go, I’ve always used the CCI34 NATO (white box) primers. Due to its design the M1 is one of the rifles most susceptible to slam fires. Some people may refute this but I’ve seen more than enough first hand evidence to make me a believer. CCI34 primers are more resistant to slam fires and IMO they’re worth the small increased cost.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I’ve loaded nothing but Hornady 150gr FMJBT projectiles in my M1 for at least five years. They’re a good FMJ bullet and much more than adequate for everyday use in your M1.

If you aren’t already a member, join the CMP forum. There are always a number of people selling Greek HXP brass for a very reasonable price on there.

As far as primers go, I’ve always used the CCI34 NATO (white box) primers. Due to its design the M1 is one of the rifles most susceptible to slam fires. Some people may refute this but I’ve seen more than enough first hand evidence to make me a believer. CCI34 primers are more resistant to slam fires and IMO they’re worth the small increased cost.

In regards to the primers, I think, in my case, the issue is going to about obtaining them, not the cost. I can't find them in Alaska, and no one will ship them. (hazmat)

 

[ArchAngelCD]

In regards to the primers, I think, in my case, the issue is going to about obtaining them, not the cost. I can't find them in Alaska, and no one will ship them. (hazmat)

Ask your local dealer if they will order them for you when they put in their next regular order. Even if you have to pre-pay it's worth it IMO. If not the CCI250 primers are a fairly good substitute. I also use the CCI#34 primers when at all possible.