Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

TSA Unlawfully Detains and Questions Two Friends

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Jayman, Dec 19, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jayman

    Jayman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Messages:
    300
    Location:
    Chantilly, VA
    Apologies for the length. This happend to two friends, I wish I were making it up.

    I am angry! I am angry that things like this can happen to friends of mine and people will say, "Oh it's OK because we're safer." Bull ****!

    Our government is getting out of control Ladies and Gentlemen. Whether you believe it or not, our rights are being trampled, raped, and **** upon by this government.

    These are true stories told first-hand by the people it happened to. I know both of these people personally and they are both Patriots and outstanding Citizens as far as I'm concerned. These are stories of Rights being trampled on, unprofessional conduct towards a lady by Airport Police and FBI agents and other atrocities.

    Since this is sort of long it will be posted in two replies to this post. One story is told by John who is Kit's boyfriend, and the other is told by Kit herself.

    John's story - http://www.livejournal.com/users/abz6598/312060.html



    See Part 2 Below
     
  2. Jayman

    Jayman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Messages:
    300
    Location:
    Chantilly, VA
    Part 2

    Kit's Story - http://www.livejournal.com/users/kitiara/1069338.html

     
  3. atk

    atk Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    423
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Interesting reading. Do you have any sources that support what happened? Is the court case information available? Is the arrest record available?
     
  4. pax

    pax Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    9,762
    Location:
    Washington state
    There's so much wrong with that story I don't even know where to start.

    The thing that really chaps my hide about such tales is that 98% of the folks who read them are going to discount the entire thing. "You don't know these people, they probably had it coming to them." "You're paranoid to worry about this." "The police were only doing their jobs." "You aren't on the side of the terrorists, are you??"

    Never mind. Go back to sleep. It can't happen here.

    pax

    Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. ...So you wait, and you wait. But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. ... And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self deception has grown too heavy .... You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven't done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). -- Milton Mayer, writing about Nazi Germany in They Thought They Were Free
     
  5. Jayman

    Jayman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Messages:
    300
    Location:
    Chantilly, VA
    ATK: I personally know the woman, Kit. We've been friends for MONTHS. She's a great person. I don't know her boyfriend as well, but he's a good guy. So your only source for this right now is ME. (I know, internet and all.) I don't know if there's court case info available or arrest record. I don't know if the two individuals involved want their full names publicized.
     
  6. pax

    pax Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    9,762
    Location:
    Washington state
    atk, good questions. I'd be inclined to want to hunt up the paperwork too, if the story itself really didn't have the ring of truth that it does -- and if we hadn't been hearing similar tales from other sources for quite awhile now. I don't see any reason to think this one's made up out of whole cloth, given the multiplicity of other such tales.

    pax

    Falsehoods not only disagree with truths, but usually quarrel among themselves. -- Daniel Webster
     
  7. Sunray

    Sunray Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    11,374
    Location:
    London, Ont.
    "...TSA..." Who? Only the government can levy fines. Why are you an the lawyer not suing the airport, this TSA, the cops etc, etc? Mind you, both these accounts read like dime novels. English Comp assignments at the very least. Have they written anything else?
    Why would this guy be carrying the hardware? Just curious.
     
  8. Jayman

    Jayman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Messages:
    300
    Location:
    Chantilly, VA
    Sunray: regarding them not getting a lawyer and suing like crazy, I don't know. If it were me, they'd already be feeling the hot hot heat of an enraged lawyer or five.

    The guy brought all that hardware to go shooting with his girlfriend, who is also a shooter. She's a relative beginner, so he was bringing along a bunch of stuff for her to play with. Does it matter WHY he had them, so long as he was adhering to all laws and regs concerning them?

    I don't understand your commentary regarding writing style or why it is pertinent. Both write journals on the web, which you can see if you follow the links back.
     
  9. atk

    atk Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    423
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Jayman: Yeah, you see exactly my point - the Internet and all.

    pax: Oh - I agree with you completely. We have been hearing a lot about this, lately. It doesn't seem to have any self-contradicting information. But I haven't seen any evidence, beyond someone I don't know describing some incident that happened to their friend. I can't help but want to confirm... anything. That the arrest really took place; that the court proceedings really occurred; anything. I don't discount it, I'm just not simply accepting it, either - maybe I'm getting cynical...
     
  10. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    13,233
    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    So the problem was he did not declare the individual guns in the one bag?

    I'm assuming this because he listed the guns individually the second time around - "I filled out a declaration tag for EACH gun...".

    The tsa.gov/public site says:

    "The firearm must be declared orally or in writing in accordance with the air carriers procedures (contact your air carrier for their specific procedures)."


    I guess it makes sense that they'd want to know exactly which guns are in the bag and not just that the bag contains guns.

    John
     
  11. Jayman

    Jayman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Messages:
    300
    Location:
    Chantilly, VA
    Actually the first go-round had all of the guns listed on the declaration sheet for each case. i.e. Case 1: Glock, .38, .357. The second time around he filled out a separate sheet for EACH gun, which is not required, according to the regs.
     
  12. simon

    simon Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    379
    Location:
    stuck in PRK
    UHh,because he wanted to shoot w/friends at a local range.Did you read a different story?
     
  13. Waitone

    Waitone Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,406
    Location:
    The Land of Broccoli and Fingernails
    Lemme see here.

    Montana, neo-nazi garb, dangerous literature, paramilitary equipment (cuffs and baton), "alternative" lifestyle, know-it-all attitude.

    Point of fact question. Were either of you baldheaded? Body piercings? **Gakk** tattoos?

    Just off hand I'd say you were profiled. Naw, can't be. We don't profile middle easterners so why would be profile Honkey-Americans?

    If it were my call, I'd place a call to the NRA's legal stable and get the wheels moving on an affadavit. They may be interested.
     
  14. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    8,419
    Location:
    Statesboro, GA
    Feel free to invite them to hang out here. :)
     
  15. rock jock

    rock jock Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,008
    Location:
    In the moment
    Before we all jump to conclusions and spout a bunch of rhetoric, it is important to find out the facts.
    If this is indeed the case, then he complied with the law. Your friend needs to find a lawyer who will work on contingency and sue. It is that simple. The lawyer will find out what happened. If things happened exactly as they describe, it sounds like they will have a case. If they don't sue, they should be ashamed of themselves for getting kicked in the seat and taking it without a whimper.

    Really, because I haven't. In fact, I have heard the exact opposite, that checking in guns has been going as smoothly as it ever did. Now, what I have heard is a bunch of folks who have an unfavorable opinion of the TSA (often justified) willing to accept any damning story without verification.
     
  16. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    We've got Saddam Hussein. Norman Mineta is still at large.
     
  17. standingbear

    standingbear Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,133
    Location:
    ohio
    precisly why I nor any of my family will take a plane anywhere.Too much hassle and too many stories.Some officials are very good at asking "loaded questions" to create something illegal that is not illegal or to twist the truth into something that could make the pope look guilty.these guys and gals are a stickler for details.
     
  18. simon

    simon Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    379
    Location:
    stuck in PRK
    Then one must, when flying w/guns,carry a voice activated recorder!Don't let them twist anyfrickin' thing,prove what was said and throw it their faces in COURT!
     
  19. carpettbaggerr

    carpettbaggerr Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,676
    1. Are ASP batons legal in VA?
    2. Are handcuffs legal for non LEO to possess in VA?
    3. Why no lawsuit?

    Seems like a lawsuit is in order, at least to recover the legal fees. If not punative damages for false arrest and false imprisonment. If you didn't have any illegal hardware, they had no grounds for arrest. At most, they should have questioned him, without removing him from the airport.
     
  20. swifter

    swifter Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    395
    Location:
    Southern CA mountains
    :uhoh: Exactly why I'll not fly unless I abso:cuss: lutely have to.
    Not flying itself, but the convenience of that mode of transportation is a poor trade for the "airport experience" and the "cattle-car" seating.:neener: Main reason I bought a Lexus...:D

    Tom
     
  21. BTR

    BTR Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    730
    Not all of them are bad. Today I asked a TSA employee some questions about flying with ammunition, and he told me he is an NRA member, who owns an AK...
     
  22. oldfart

    oldfart Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    767
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Every time I've gone to court for jury duty, the defence attorney asks us if we have any pre-determined ideas about the defendant. Usually, the question goes something like " Do you believe that where' there's smoke, ther's fire?" Of course, I'm supposed to say "Oh no sir!!" then hang him.

    But with the TSA there's enough smoke to hide a forest fire, so I truly believe there's at least a decent campfire going. There are so many stories about mis-managed authority in the airports that there has to be some sort of fire.

    A slightly different case came up at Portland International Airport last year. A writer for some movie outfit was traveling back to LA with his pregnant wife. He took exception to the way the male TSA agents handled his wife and spoke up about it. He spent a night in the local jail and eventually had to pay a fine. Some people who heard the story didn't completely believe it so I volunteered to check it out. As I dug deeper into the court and arrest records and after speaking to a witness, I decided that he had actually understated his experience.

    These are not unusual cases. Most of the victims are so shaken by the experience that they are simply afraid to complain. The government agents they deal with generally make sure to leave a lasting impression too.

    I can't help thinking that Henry Bowman would have placed TSA agents right alongside the ATF.
     
  23. GigaBuist

    GigaBuist Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2003
    Messages:
    2,261
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Couple of comments...

    Regarding the above said story I beleive Oleg Volk himself linked to it in another very recent thread with the commnet "here's what recently happened to my friends."

    if you scan Oleg's posts over the past 4 days from the time of this writing you'll find it. I may be mistaken though: I had just gotten out of an Airport and my mind was -fried- from an entire day of living in fear.

    The TSA is weird. If you want to find another group of people that are pretty ticked off at the TSA you have to look no further than skydivers. They are often hassled for trying to bring a -parachute- onto a plane! That's where the friggen device belongs but TSA employees have been hassling them since 9/11 over the matter.

    Now, many of you may wonder why they wouldn't just check their chute and turn it into a non issue. The answer is simple: They trust their life to that thing working properly and you don't want a TSA "goon" pulling it apart and stuffing it back into a bag. Would you let a TSA agent tear apart your AR-15, put it back together, and then shoot it without you inspecting it? Hopefully not.

    With that aside I'm going to step on my soapbox and preach to the choir here. Nobody is actually safe behind the security checks in the airport. The TSA is in the uber-paranoid state where nobody can have anything resembling a knife of stabbing device beyond their area, but they aren't doing diddly to enforce that.

    I can go to a snack shop behind the secure gates and purchase a 22oz glass bottle. That'll make a handy weapon if you break it. Bring some paracord/550 along and you can bust the bottle, be a nice guy and pick it up, then take a large piece into a bathroom stall in your pocket, wrap it in 550, and make a crude knife.

    There are an "alarming" number of things that can be made into a short range cutting weapon behind those secure gates. The vast majority of people don't see it though: THR members probably do though. Oh, and the bad people. So, the only two groups that really notice how you can make a weapon are the really bad and the really good.

    Sheer logic dictates that if both the good man and the bad man can make a weapon behind secured gates that there's no point in the exercise. Only the bad man would actually make a weapon beyond those points, unless the good man had to fashion one quickly to save lives.

    I went over this in more detail in my web-log (blog) earlier this week and had an anti comment to me via email that they weren't feeling so safe now at the airport. It's all at http://justinbuist.blogspot.com if you want to read it.
     
  24. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    13,233
    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    Jayman - Thanks for the details on how the guns were listed. I wonder what the TSA's problem was. John
     
  25. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    9,325
    Location:
    Hoosieropolis
    It may have been those Help Wanted ads that started out: "Welfare payments not keeping you in PS2 games? Got a pulse? Can you fog a mirror? Have you always wanted a badge of your very own? Have we got a career track for you!" ;)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page