Tsar of Toronto aims to shut down shooting ranges

Discussion in 'Legal' started by lookn4varmints, May 28, 2008.

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  1. lookn4varmints

    lookn4varmints Member

    Dec 7, 2007

    ***WARNING: Readers may experience paroxysmal cranial detonation

    Miller wants shooting ranges shut down
    TheStar.com - GTA - Miller wants shooting ranges shut down

    May 27, 2008
    John Spears
    Robert Benzie
    Staff Reporters

    Mayor David Miller wants to close recreational shooting ranges in Toronto, along with giving the city power to block gun manufacturers and wholesalers from opening new plants or warehouses.

    "Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city," Miller said of sport shooting yesterday, amid debate on a possible gun bylaw.

    Canadian Olympic pistol shooter and downtown resident Avianna Chao begs to differ. She says that if Miller gets his way, it could mean an end to her sport – and it won't make the streets one bit safer.

    Miller wants to terminate leases with two gun clubs that have shooting ranges on city property, one at Union Station, the other at Don Montgomery community centre.

    Chao, who will head to Beijing this summer to compete for Canada at the Olympics, began shooting at Don Montgomery and now trains primarily at the Union range.

    "When I heard about this city proposal today it just absolutely knocked the wind out of me," Chao said yesterday.

    The gun debate erupted on a day when provincial Attorney General Chris Bentley and Community Safety Minister Rick Bartolucci were writing to their federal counterparts, seeking co-operation on curbing firearm violence.

    "As you know, the people of Ontario continue to have serious concerns about the threat posed by guns and gun-related crime in our communities, particularly on the streets of downtown Toronto," Bentley and Bartolucci wrote in a five-page letter to federal Attorney General Rob Nicholson and Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day.

    They asked for a three-point plan to limit gun violence by:

    Making sure federal firearms marking regulations are stringently followed so guns can be traced.
    Appointing federal prosecutors to Ontario's guns and gangs task force.
    Closing legal loopholes that let gun parts be brought into Canada.
    At the same time, city staff released a report calling for a bylaw that would allow the city to restrict or prohibit the making and wholesaling of firearms in Toronto.

    Only police and the military should be allowed to operate firing ranges, the report says, calling for an end to the gun club leases.

    Recommendations would apply to all firearms, including rifles and shotguns. But in a scrum with reporters, Miller directed most of his comments toward handguns.

    "After John O'Keefe's tragic killing, I don't think there's any defence for sports shooters any more," Miller said, referring to the man shot in January by a stray bullet. The gun was legally owned by the man charged in the killing.

    "It's a hobby that creates danger to others. Guns are stolen routinely from so-called legal owners. It's time that we got those guns out of Toronto," he said.

    "Do we as a society value safety, or do we value a hobby that creates danger?" he asked. "Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city. Those are the facts. And they're provable again and again and again."

    Existing makers and wholesalers of firearms would not be affected by any new bylaw. Nor would retailers, as they're governed by federal law. The staff report says as many as 40 per cent of handguns seized by Toronto police were legally purchased but stolen from their owners.

    But Chao said shutting down shooting ranges and banning manufacturers has nothing to do with safety. "Gang members don't visit these (shooting) clubs," she said.

    "You have to show your licence and all the paperwork. This has nothing to do with gang violence."

    Her own guns are safely stored and locked, she said. She's never had a gun stolen. "Anyone should be able to see through this," she said, "that this is the politicians just trying to say they did something, even though it will have no impact on actual gun violence. ... Why don't they go after the gangs? Why don't they go after the illegal trafficking of firearms?"

    Chao said Canadian shooters are already handicapped compared with competitors because other countries let shooters train full time. If ranges are shut down, she said, "I don't know how we're expected to compete internationally."

    Steven Spinney, firearms safety officer for the Scarborough Rifle Club, was also stunned by the news.

    "It doesn't make any sense to be zeroing in on a gun club," he said. "We're an Olympic sport ... I'm not sure how shutting us down would help to cut the gun crime."

    Participants are required to take a safety course and the club uses only single-shot rifles.

    With files from Vanessa Lu
  2. Fisherman_48768

    Fisherman_48768 Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    Thumb of Mich.
    Friend of mine in Canada got this reply from the good Mayor's office.

  3. scout26

    scout26 Member

    Jul 21, 2003
    Illinois - The Deadbeat State
    Yep, and in a few years an American Boy Scout Troop armed with Swiss Army Knives will invade and take over Canada.
  4. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

    Oct 10, 2006
    Deep in the valley
    Wow, what a poster child for anti style brainwashing.

    So I guess all my handguns are defective because I've shot thousands of rounds through them at various events and nobody has been killed yet.

    I bet the criminals are just hopping right on that bandwagon and will turn everything in ASAP.

    Would "all fronts" include dealing with the criminals or just the easier task of rounding up the law abiding and telling them "hand 'em in"?

    Oh, I guess my previous question is answered.

    Ah, so the few bad apples justify a movement to socialism?

    So let's slap down all the legal uses and make EVERY firearm illegal...and hope that will reduce the number of criminals. Oh yeah, good plan :banghead:

    And since things are so dangerous let's disarm the good guys.

    Because, you know, the criminals won't find some other way to get guns, or commit violence. After all total bans have worked so well in several other nations around the world.

    Ah, it's working. And that's why you have that "1 act of violence per hour" statistic above?

    I love that part of their "Canadian" plan is "Stronger US Gun Controls". In essence the U.S. is being set up as the bad guy and the source for all their criminal problems. Well I have an idea, you keep your criminals there and we'll keep our guns here.

    Gee that's nice, while you are at it why not put some effort into catching and keeping the CRIMINALS who commit CRIMES?

    And if a responsible citizen with his/her own firearm saves even one life then it should also be worth it and that person shouldn't be criminalized.
  5. ny32182

    ny32182 Member

    Oct 17, 2003
    Clemson, SC
    At least the Canadian government morons don't sugar coat their intentions. Can't say the same for our "politicians" here...

    I spent three months in Canada for work, from mid November to mid February. One of the Canadians I was interacting with daily was big on hunting/camping/outdoor stuff, etc. He had a small collection of bolt rifles and hunting shotguns. Even he was shocked that I was able to own the handguns I do and legally carry one on my person in public. What the politicos can get away with is all about perception I guess.
  6. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Member

    Aug 7, 2007
    Portland, OR
    At least the Canadian government morons don't sugar coat their intentions. Can't say the same for our "politicians" here...

    Took the words right out of my mouth. Unlike our champions for the 2nd Hillary and Obama. :barf:
  7. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

    May 19, 2008
    We should start calling this "Big City Mayor Brain Wasting Disease."

    Toronto has a serious problem, but guns are only a pawn in it. I don't know what level of other political discourse is welcomed here, but a modest amount of web research, or one visit to Toronto, will quickly reveal the causes of their crime wave. And it is a serious crime wave. I have been visiting Toronto regularly for 25+ years and today is 180 degrees from the 1980's, when Toronto was clean and nice and the US cities were scary. Today Toronto is scary and a place to avoid being alone at night, or even just to avoid period.

    Just another reminder, as if we needed any, of why you need to join and support the NRA and other organizations that defend our rights.
  8. McCall911

    McCall911 Member

    Feb 21, 2004
    It's just like everywhere else, I suppose. The government doesn't necessarily reflect the will of the people, but intead an ideology that is shoved down the people's throats.
  9. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

    Oct 13, 2005
    Canuck in SE WA State.
    Most people I know on the WEST Coast (I'm from Vancouver Island BTW) are all for owning firearms... Easterners seem to wet themselves at the though of us mere country bumkins on the West owning guns...

    Take a Toronto socialite and drop them at the end of the Island I'm from and they may change their tune PDQ when the local Cougar population starts sizing them up for a quick snack.
  10. Funderb

    Funderb Member

    Oct 23, 2007
    Jacksonville, Bold new city of the south.
    total BS.
  11. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

    Dec 28, 2002
    Salt Lake City, UT
  12. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Dec 24, 2002
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Pol Pot would have understood perfectly. I don't.
  13. RP88

    RP88 Member

    Jan 1, 2008
    wow...lol, considering Canada's population and the fact that they do not have very many large cities, it is rather odd for them to have a gun crime rate worse than the evil USA's gun crime rate :rolleyes:
  14. retgarr

    retgarr Member

    Jan 18, 2008
    That pisses me off to an incredible degree. The parts about his intention to change gunlaws in the United States. He is an official in a foreign government and I take offense to his messing with my rights. I sent them a letter explaining so. I didn't try to advise their policy though, because I am not a Canadian citizen an I respect that nations sovereignty.
  15. George C Morrison

    George C Morrison member

    May 26, 2008
    Mayor Miller sounds deranged regarding firearms.Does not the police force of his city carry sidearms?
    This man was elected?
    It seems like the people of Toronto are getting the Government they deserve.
  16. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

    Aug 16, 2006
    Yes, they do. Toronto police are right up there with NYPD in terms of response times and effectiveness.

    The right people to respond to this joker would be some group like the Pink Pistols. Do they have a Toronto chapter?
  17. jrfoxx

    jrfoxx Member

    Sep 23, 2004
    I've been reading alot about this guy lately What a putz. My sympathies to all good hockey lovin', gun lovin', Canadian's that have to deal with this schmuck.
  18. XD_fan

    XD_fan Member

    Jun 10, 2005
    Its amazing how many nut jobs are in elected office.
  19. ZombieHunter

    ZombieHunter Member

    May 16, 2008
    Maryland...A Brady Bill Top 5 State /puke
    Hand gun bans totally work...just look at D.C.
  20. CK

    CK Member

    Jun 12, 2006
    Asia and North of US.
    He was elected while I was away..............
  21. UberAmerican

    UberAmerican Member

    Mar 25, 2008
    Just Once....

    If only ONCE , I'd like to hear some politician ban murder, robbery,rape..... Waitjustagoddamminute..:fire:. they already are banned. Guess it didn't work. Do our oppressed brethren to the North have any data on how many times in Canada firearms are used in lawful defense? Of course, to Socialists and Communists, there's no such thing as a citizen exercising their right to defend themselves.
    Keep your powder dry
  22. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

    Aug 16, 2006
    The answer is ZERO. It is illegal to use a firearm for self-defense in Canada.
  23. La Pistoletta

    La Pistoletta Member

    Jan 6, 2004
    Hit 'em where it's felt. Organize a mass exodus to the US of everyone who disagrees, so they don't get as much tax money over there in Kanada.

    Yeah. Purposefully spelled with a K.
  24. caljay30

    caljay30 Member

    May 30, 2008
    Boycott Toronto

    "Letters from outside the city and indeed from across North America have been trickling in since council made its decision. My favourite letters are the ones being sent from the U.S. Gun owners there are now urging a boycott of Toronto. Considering that most of the problems with guns on our streets emanate from south of the border, I couldn't be happier.

    If all it took was closing a couple of shooting ranges to stop gun-toting Yanks from coming to our city, maybe we should have shut the doors on these clubs years ago."

    Adam Vaughan, City Councillor, Toronto

    Just one of many comments that show how anti American this city is. Boycott the city and visit torontothebad.com to communicate with city administration your opinion of them.
  25. Al Parsons

    Al Parsons Member

    Dec 29, 2006
    Mayor David Miller is a socialist screwball who won't give up until he has completely ruined Toronto. Torontonians certainly do deserve the government that they have because they voted these morons in.

    (By the way, I live in the sunny little town of Brighton, Ontario, which is located about 95 miles east of that cesspool they call Toronto. Thank God, Miller's reach does not extend this far. Thank God, also, that we have a Federal Government that is gun-friendly).

    I am not a lawyer but it would be interesting to me to see a constitutional challenge to this moronic policy. Does a municipal government have the power to shut down a legal business?

    By the way, Canadians do have the right to defend themselves, even to the point of killing their adversary BUT....you better make bloody sure that your assailant is carrying a gun or a knife and you better make bloody sure that you shoot the bastard in the chest. No back shots allowed. And even then, you better be prepared to hire a lawyer - and be without your guns for a while. I think my preference might be to "shoot, shovel and shut up".

    Another poster alluded to Toronto's real problems rather than the surface ones that the Mayor seems fixated upon. This poster was quite correct except that the "problem" began in the 1960s, not the 1980s. Not to put too fine a point on it, the "problem" might be described as a "people" problem, not a gun problem, and it was largely imported!

    I hope pointing you guys to another website is allowed by the rules here. To get a better feel for the situation up here, you might want to drop in at the following site:


    Americans are absolutely welcome to join and, whether or not you join, you should at least be able to drop in.

    The Canadian Shooting Sports Association is currently attempting to get a "Boycott Toronto" campaign going. I would love to see it take off nationwide across the U.S.

    Bye for now, Al.
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