'Tuner a little 1911 help please!

[bradvanhorn]

o.k. folks here it comes...

I went to a gun show this a.m., and picked up an 11 lb. Wolff spring to try. I later went to the range and stripped the gun. Getting the barrel out was difficult, and the feed ramp (it's a fully ramped barrel) would not easily slip past the part of the slide where the recoil plug goes (I don't know the nomenclature). I had to give the barrel a good tug to get it through, and it nicely scratched the side of the feed ramp. I did my best to inspect the locking lugs on the barrel and slide, and I neither saw nor felt anything that seemed unusual (compared to my other 1911s). I then reassembled the gun, replacing the full length recoil spring guide and plug with a standard length guide and standard plug, then put in the 11 lb. recoil spring. I tried the slow cycling by hand thing, and noticed the first inch or so of travel was smooth, but from that point on it felt like the gun was full of sand (if you know what I mean). I did that a few times to affirm my perception, and the last 1 1/2 inch or travel or so was definitely rough feeling. I then when into the range to see if the spring helped. Four rounds, four failures, same problem. Only this time - Surprise! - I brought my camera! I have pictures! After the four failures with the factory PMC ammo (130gr @ 1050fps), I decided to try some Georgia Arms ammo I picked up at the gun show. The Georgia Arms ammo is a bit hotter - 147gr @ 1200fps - and I thought if anything would cycle the gun, this ammo would be it. Well sure enough, five rounds, five fully cycled shots! It's a miracle! However, I could definitely feel the gun fighting the cycle. It just felt rough, like I had two pieces of fine sandpaper trying to slide by one another.

o.k., so that's about it... Anyone want to see some of the pictures? I included a photo of one of the regular "hang-ups", but I haven't figured out how to attach multiple photos, and I have about 18 total. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks in advance!
Brad


P.S. On a happier note, the Springfield XD-9 I picked up today worked like a champ! I like it... I like it a lot!

 

[1911Tuner]

Sandy

Howdy Brad,

It sounds like there's something not fitted right. Try to determine where it is.

Bare slide on the frame...Still a rough spot?

Barrel and bushing in slide and repeat...how now?

Check the link pin to see if it's sticking out on one side of the lower lug.
If it is, it will keep the barrel from falling into the frame on linkdown.

Is the slide making hard contact with the top of the dust cover? There will
be a line on the slide in that area if there is.

Is the hammer in a bind against the top of the grip safety as the slide passes over it after it's at full cock? With the hammer cocked, and the slide on top of it, the hammer should have a little more travel before it hits
the grip safety. Look to the top of the safety for signs of hard contact.


This one's a poser, for sure. hard to put a finger on the bug without the
gun on the table....

Standin' by...

Tuner

 

[bradvanhorn]

Yeah, I suppose it's pretty tough trying to perform surgery when you don't even have the patient in hospital

I'll try some of the things you've just recommended, but I think I'm done trying to do this myself. The problem might be simple, but I now believe it's really not going to be simple enough for me to handle on my own.

Once I get the gun out of the store I'll take it to our match armorer and see what he can do with it. This guy builds match 1911s for the Marine Corps, so I doubt he'll have any trouble getting this one figured out.

Thanks for all the advice. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Best Regards!
Brad

 

[BluesBear]

Field strip the gun.
With no internals at all, slow cycle the slide on the frame. Does it still feel gritty?

If so then you have a slide to frame problem. If not it's dragging somewhere else.

Slide the barrel bushing down the barrel. does if move freely. Does it travel the full length of the barrel?

If the only problem seems to be slide to frame fit, then some Tuners Infamous Slurry and West Carolina Gravy Mix might be needed.

 

[Dave Sample]

You gave yourself some really good advice. Take it to some one that knows something.

 

[bradvanhorn]

I didn't intend to resurrect this thread, but I've one more question. Could the barrel link be too long or large? One of the more competent range staff (or at least he seems more competent) asked me about that this morning when I went to visit my gun. We talked about the malfunction and my limited efforts to fix it, and his comment about the barrel link was something like, "if the link is too long, then it'll prevent the barrel from dropping down properly after it unlocks, which could cause the malfunction." It sounded plausible, but I know only enough to be hazardous...

Thanks,
Brad

 

[1911Tuner]

Long Link?

was something like, "if the link is too long, then it'll prevent the barrel from dropping down properly after it unlocks, which could cause the malfunction."

IF the link is so long that the barrel can't link down early enough or far enough to get the lugs clear of the slide...yep. If the locking lugs look good, that's not it.

Did you check for hammer binding between the slide and grip safety?

 

[dpcdivr]

Brad:
Sent you a P.M. . Talk with me after you get back from Lejeune.
Dave

 

[bradvanhorn]

Well, after many weeks of fussing around, I finally got my Colt .38 Super down to our match armorer. It appears 1911Tuner may have nailed it from the beginning. After checking and doublechecking the proper fit of all the parts, the diagnosis is a bad extractor, with far too much tension. If I followed the discussion correctly this morning (since I was shooting my annual pistol qualification course I may have been a bit distracted), apparently the extractor tension was so high it would not let go of the spent case after each firing. So, he has installed a new Wilson Combat Bulletproof extractor and is fine tuning it for me. With a little luck I'll be up and running tomorrow.

Thanks to all,
Brad

 

[Dave Sample]

If this guy is an expert and he didn't suggest a problem with the ejector, you may be surprised when you get it back. Good Luck.

 

[bradvanhorn]

I took care of worries about the ejector by giving him a Kings extended ejector to put in the gun for me. He was pretty certain the true problem was the extractor, but putting in the new extended ejector shouldn't hurt anything (at least I hope).

 

[Dave Sample]

Good Man! I can rest easy now.

 

[bradvanhorn]

OH YEAH! Now it shoots like a champ!

I didn't realize... our match armorers don't go to school per se, they actually learn to build match weapons on the job by building and repairing guns for the Marine Corps precision weapons shop. They spend a couple years building and repairing various match weapons, then they can transfer out to whatever unit is in need of a match armorer. Maybe that doesn't mean much by the commercial professional gunsmith standard (whatever that is), but I feel pretty confident these guys know the right way to do things.

Anyway, the Sgt who's helping me said a few things about the gun. One, the extractor was holding the case too tight, which contributed most to the failure to eject problem. Two, the barrel was fit super tight with the bushing, and that also didn't help (I can't recall the full explanation). Last, the hammer is rubbing pretty hard on the bottom of the slide as the slide cycles.

He replaced the extractor and ejector, and refit the barrel to bushing. He didn't think the hammer rubbing would cause any problems, but offered to refit parts if I wanted. It didn't affect the gun at all out on the range, so I didn't ask him to bother with it. Anyone disagree with leaving the hammer as is? I don't know enough to say one way or the other.

One last item... The gun still has an 11# spring in it. Should I increase the spring weight any? I read somewhere a good generic rule was to divide power factor by ten, which would call for maybe a 14# spring with the PMC loads I'm shooting. I don't want to deviate too far one way or the other in spring weight...

Thanks to all who've chimed in on this one!

 

[1911Tuner]

Champ

Howdy brad,

The Super's "standard" recoil spring is 14 pounds, but the rate for best function can vary a little, depending on the mainspring loading and even
the slide to frame fit. Try a 14 and see what happens. If you get short
recoil, drop to a 12.
______________________

Your quote:

I didn't realize... our match armorers don't go to school per se, they actually learn to build match weapons on the job by building and repairing guns for the Marine Corps...

Yep...That works.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[R.H. Lee]

bradvanhorn said

It appears 1911Tuner may have nailed it from the beginning.

Just wanted to repeat this for anyone who missed it.

Signed,

Official Member
Tuner Appreciation Club

 

[1911Tuner]

Nailed It

Proof one again that even a blind squirrel can find a nut ever' so often...

 

[Dave Sample]

I am resting easy on this one. Our Hero has done it again! Atta Boy, Tuner. I am sorry I ever mentioned the ejector, but I have built a lot of 38 Supers.

 

[1911Tuner]

Sorry?

Dave said:

I am sorry I ever mentioned the ejector...

NEVER be sorry for offering a suggestion that might lead to a cure!

We're all takin' shots in the dark here. Next time you'll squash the bug
while everybody else is stompin' all around it. I've never built a Super,
and can only go with a generic answer.

The ejector absolutely can cause a stovepipe FTE. It just didn't happen to be it this time. Next time it might turn out to be the Wiffle bearing or the
Witchet pin. Dang pistols can be more confusin' than wimmin sometimes!

Cheers!

Tuner the Lucky

 

[Dave Sample]

Thanks Tuner. The 38/9mm ejectors are set off toward the right so it can catch the smaller case rim. There is no way that a 45 ejector is going to do anything but cause problems. It also is extended because the Supers Cycle different that a 45ACP. Years ago, some of the early Colt Commanders slides were cut for a 39/9mm ejector and it was always a surprise when you discovered that. I have no idea what they were smokin' when they came up with that idea. I will refrain from any comments about C&S. If you can't say something good, keep the mouth shut!