Two legged dangers in National Parks

[Ghost Tracker]

You sure it was a '68 Beetle

Let's see, I had 6-7 different VW Bugs as a young man, I really liked 'em. Lets dig-out some old college photos. OK, I re-painted it Corvette Midnight Blue, found it!, ummm...five bolt wheels, that means Swing Axle rear end, that's gotta' be '67 or earlier! But it was a link-pin front end, so '67 I guess? Pure steel dash. (But I would've tried the same thing in newer model, that early padding was awfully thin).

 

[IlikeSA]

Events in the woods, even if not in a National Forest/Park, are the reason I first started carrying. I was walking through an area in Georgia near my house, and all the sudden my skin crawled and I knew something was stalking me. It turns out it was either a pack of dogs or coyotes, which I eventually escaped from by staying in the open and keeping a deep creekbed on my flank. All I had with me was a cheap knife and small hatchet.

After that incident, I bought a Cold Steel trail hawk to carry (I didn't have the money or knowledge of the law to carry a gun) and was hiking in another section of woods, when I looked up to see someone trailing me from about 100 meters away. This area is not frequented at all, and it was rare that I'd see anyone else there. I didn't think much of it, until I noticed when he saw me looking in his direction, he would try to hide. I slammed my hawk into a tree, drew my knife and pointed in his direction. He quickly took off.

After that incident, my anti-gun mom convinced me to get a gun with this question: "what if he had a gun?" She was trying to discourage me from going out there alone, but I took it as "I need to upgrade my protection." I bought a 1911 after that, and carried it on my fishing license, until I began to realize that bad things happen in town too. I then learned about carry permits and got one of those. I've been carrying everywhere since then.

To Ghost: to the victor go the spoils. You were merciful to him to do what you did.

 

[baronthered]

baronthered:


What's not to believe? If Bill Clinton can hunt ducks with a rifle, why can't this guy hunt turkeys with an AR? Don't lots of folks do that?

If you knew some of my family... and this uncle... well... aint the best sort of dude. And as far as believing anything he has to tell any one... Nine times out of ten he's telling someone something, it's a lie... the tenth time his mouth is shut.

Folks that know him call him 'ol bs or just bs.

 

[MtnCreek]

1998, two people shot dead at a camp site where I had spent many a night in Linville Gorge (approx 5 miles from my house).

Same year, had a wanted felon stalk me in Pisgah Nat Forest. Later found out he was hiding out in the Nat Forest because he was wanted for theft of railroad property and wanted for questioning for the murder of a woman. Same man cut up his girlfriend about a week later and she showed up at my house because it was the closest house around (property borders Nat Forest). Some people feel there is no law in remote areas so be careful.

 

[bergmen]

I can tell you with certainty that marijuana grows in NF lands in the Pacific Northwest are common. As pointed out, most are not actively tended or guarded. Most. Most Forest Service LEO's spend their entire summer working active marijuana grows...

Depends on where. Here in Mendocino County, California there is a huge, active MJ cultivation of National Forest Lands (Mendocino National Forest) that are guarded often by illegals with fully automatic weapons. Several times last year alone, uniformed Deputies out scouting around came under fire and they had to return same killing a few "guards".

It got so bad that several adjoinging counties banded together and launched an aerial assault with military style helicopters and large groups of combat equipped LEO's (could have had National Guard involved, not sure but Ukiah Airport was one of the bases of operation).

One of the worst areas is where I used to like to take my boys deer hunting (Plaskette Meadow Area). We would hunt with 30-30 lever actions. If we go back (not likely until it cools off), I'll be packing my M1A and G19 with hi-caps.

Dan

 

[X-Rap]

The SW is no place to be un armed on public or private lands. I recall rafters in Big Bend Park being shot and Public land being signed with warnings of smugglers. It's hard to believe our country has ceded such a large amount of real estate to the lawless but it is hard to deny that it has happened.

 

[MBaneACP]

Back when I wrote TRAIL SAFE -- I believe the only book to be positively reviewed in both BACKPACKER and GUNS & AMMO, LOL! -- I noted that while the backcountry was a relatively safe place, it was foolish to abandon the awareness and avoidance skills that keep us safe in urban and suburban life when we visit the outback.

I also made a strong point that you needed to KNOW and UNDERSTAND where you actually were...just because the terrain looks like a set from "Jeremiah Johnson" doesn't necessarily mean you're not half-a-mile from a busy Interstate rest stop...what we used to call when I lived in Florida "convenient killing grounds." A park within spitting distance from metro LA has a whole different "threat profile" than a park in spitting distance from Ketchum, Idaho.

Michael B

 

[george29]

Great Story Ghost Tracker.

 

[Carl Levitian]

Most of my life living hrere inb the Peoples Republik Of Maryland, I've got by without carrying a gun. But I do consider it foolish to step off in the woods without one, even if I have to break the law. Thankfully, my better half of 40 years feels the same way. I don't ever carry a gun while going about my suburbanite life, but twice in the past couple of decades a gun on hand was a good thing. In March of 1988 on the Appalation Trail about 5 miles north of the gravel springs shelter, near the Peak train, I had to pull a handgun, and in late October I had to do it again in 2004, while the wife and I were having a little picnic on a blanket about 50 yards off a hiking trail in Black Hill Regonal Park, in Montgomery county Md. Both times the display of a handgun made the low life run off.

Yes, I know I'm running a risk, so spare me the lectures of breaking the law. On those two occasions very verbal threats were made as to their intentions toward my wife and teen age daughter (1988) and about my wife in 2004. Both times a knife was bradished in a way that i supose he's learnded while watching TV.

I've made it to the age of 70 winters now, and I don't regret a darn thing. But I have nightmareish thoughts about what would have happened if I hadn't had my little .38 on hand. Both my wife and I made the choice to carry many years ago, and she carries her little S&W 317 revolver concealed. We've discussed and have plans for most senerios, and after 40 years together, we make a pretty good team. Like me, the wify conceals well enough that we've stood talking with park rangers with no problem. We just keep up the looks of the gray haired retired couple with the bird watching binoculars around our necks.

The parks are not what they used to be, and more and more druggies are out there doing meth or just hanging out looking for trouble. Like has been said, google murders on the A.T.. Any trail with good acsess from small local towns will in time attract a lower element. A careful person will take precautions.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Discreet carry in the national forest, or other areas: A sleeved, plastic "water bottle" (I got mine off the shelf at a K-Mart), with a 1" wide slot under the zippered sleeve. Yank the zipper, and it will allow the hand to retrieve a S&W J frame, or walther PPK sized gun. Now the little polymer and pocket .380's will fit even smaller, even less obvious containers. I think a Kahr .380 or Ruger LCP dangling around the neck from a piece of yarn under a Tee or sweatshirt would work, too.

 

[Mainsail]

This is as discreet as I go.

 

[mljdeckard]

It's more than just 'in' the national park. Some of us live in areas where we regularly drive through national parks just to get around. Before the law change, we we were effectively disarmed all of the time despite living in rural desert, because we might need to go through parks.

In about 1990, the lodge at Zion National Park was held up.I was washing dishes at a restaurant outside the park, and suddenly everyone but J. Edgar was blazing through the town with lights and siren. Someone knew when the lodge manager left every day with the cash deposit envelope, walked up to him in the parking lot, pulled a gun, and took the envelope. Walked away, was never caught.

Violent crimes occur every year in national parks. Assault, sexual assault, etc. There is no magical thing about being in a national park that makes you safer than anywhere else. Remember, that the monuments in Washington D.C. are national parks, I doubt anyone would say they are safe places to hang out in at night.

 

[parsimonious_instead]

I was shadowed once by a weird dude in a very small suburban park. It is heavily wooded. One of only about two times I really wish I had a gun with me. The park is quiet and heavily wooded, long and very thin - probably 1/2 mile at its thickest.
Point is, even though it's a fairly popular park during most days and most times of the day, I don't recall anyone else on the trails during the "incident."
He could have easily picked up the pace and closed in on me with a rock or knife and done lethal damage pretty quickly (provided I couldn't evade him or fight back effectively).
No one would have seen the incident, and he could have easily taken one of several trails in the opposite direction of my now-cooling corpse.
A previous poster mentioned how "thousands of acres" can give good cover and serious escape and evasion time to an assailant, but a surprisingly small patch of dense woods can do nearly as good a job.
A murder victim would probably be discovered much quicker at this place than the Toyiabee National Forest, but dead is dead, and with no witnesses or confession, a person killed there would probably end up in a cold case file.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Funny how a Glock 20 or 21 seems to fit those Bianchi UM84 or M9 holsters like a glove!

 

[mljdeckard]

(I use a few UM-84s I five-fingered from the army for a lot of guns and activities, including Glocks as well.)

 

[CZguy]

Funny how a Glock 20 or 21 seems to fit those Bianchi UM84 or M9 holsters like a glove!

A CZ-75 fits like that's what it was made for.

 

[mljdeckard]

The "U" is for "Universal".

 

[HOWARD J]

I don't know what the laws are today--but way back when--it was against the law to carry a rifle or handgun in MI woods or National forest out of hunting season.
We started with a station wagon-tent -popup trailer-travel trailer-motor home. I can tell you we never went there without serious protection

 

[X-Rap]

I think non permissive possession of guns is a long held American tradition and is still going strong. So long as people have the need we will have the gun.

 

[K1500]

One of the only times I have ever felt the need to point a firearm at another human was in the woods/national forest. A drunk guy with a shotgun was waiving it at our camping party from the window of his truck.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Not a state park story, but My dad's place bordered the state park on one side and a few hundred acres of Xmas tree fields that had a pond past my neighbors. got plenty of bullet holes and I was almost shot one summer, close enough to hear the bullet go past my ear and it hit the tree right behind me.

The response to that was my neighbors dad, slightly lit, sent a few mags of bird shot over the pond as we let loose with what was left over from the 4th of July. It ain't nice having to hit the dirt in your own (or you best friends/neighbors) front yard. Just because you are in the 'middle of nowhere' doesn't mean you should or can be an idiot. BUT it means that some idiot thinks it is OK...

 

[skoro]

I'm always surprised when I see on forums that folks talk about two legged predators in national parks (or state parks).

You shouldn't be.

Until recently, it was forbidden for law-abiding visitors to be armed. Ever notice how crackpot criminals flock to no-gun-zones with their automatic weapons? Much less risk of opposition and everyone they meet is a possible target.

Before confessing to the Feb murders of 3 women Stayner admitted to FBI agents he killed a 4th woman, the beheading of Yosemite naturalist, Joie Ruth Armstrong, 37. He had beheaded her, returned to his room, changed and grabbed his rope, knife, duct tape and a gun.

Serial killers LOVE unarmed victims the most

 

[gunnutery]

I recently went with a mens group from church to the Superior National Hiking Trail in Minnesota. I knew a couple other guys had permits from my state, but I read up beforehand and found that MN didn't allow for permits from people in my state (or perhaps any state, not sure now). I on the other hand am allowed to carry in all 50 states and was the only one CC in our group. We only met friendly people along the trail, but then, my openly carried Kabar might have helped with that as well.

 

[radshooter]

A looooooong time ago my wife and I were camping in Great Basin NP during the off season at the end of a remote loop. About midnight we heard crunching in the gravel outside our tent like someone or something was trying to be sneaky. I thought it was a 4 legged critter since there was no other campers anywhere near us.

Just as I had decided there was nothing to worry about, our dog (in the tent with us) went ballistic! We got her calmed down, and I lay there listening. About 10 long minutes later I heard more crunching even closer to the tent. This quickly dispelled my animal theory because I figured the dog would have scared them off.

My next move was to loudly rack the slide on my Sig P220 which we had, at that time, illegally brought into the park with us. I then heard a very rapid retreat of footsteps outside the tent.

Needless to say, I did not sleep that night. The footsteps never returned, and our dog got well deserved extra rations in the morning.

 

[TwoWheelFiend]

There is nothing that can replace a dog. They smell things you cant smell and hear things you cannot hear. They are an invaluable as a warning system and a best friend. Every night my lab / retriever mix, Dogmeat sleeps at the foot of my bed and nothing makes me feel safer. Good story radshooter!