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Two tier Carry Permit System

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by TheProf, Jan 31, 2011.

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  1. TheProf

    TheProf Member

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    For those states with CCW only... and have impossible odds of acquiring Open Carry...

    Would you be in favor of suggesting a two-tier permit system?

    Say... a Open Carry permit if a person has successfully maintained a CCW for 4 years?

    I think that many who oppose an Open Carry system are fearful that it might be abused. (For instance, think of a "mall ninja" stereotype....Something that the general public may not be ready for.)

    This way, by the time a person open carries...it is known to everyone that this person can indeed be trusted... he has been carrying concealed for at least 4 years without incident.

    (Don't get me wrong. I'm all for our 2A rights. In fact, in my ideal world...I would prefer not to have permits being needed at all. But for those anti-open carry states.....this may be a way of paving the way for open carry.)

    By the way, I prefer to CCW. But I do want to have open carry laws in my state....just to avoid being harrassed if I accidentally "printed" or break concealment.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  2. merlinfire

    merlinfire Member

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    degrees of improvement - better than no improvement at all.
     
  3. PowderMonkey

    PowderMonkey Member

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    I wouldn't open carry if CCW licensing laws never existed, and everyone had always been allowed to carry open. Especially not with the awesome choice of compact weapons we have...

    I currently alternate between a Kahr PM40 and a Ruger LCR 357 Mag - both with CT laser, both pocket carry in 3 different holsters and the PM40 occasionally in a leather Galco Jackass horizontal shoulder holster.

    Why advertise?
     
  4. Frozen North

    Frozen North Member

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    Maybe the politicians should visit an open carry state like MN. They can observe how it is a total non issue here. I think the argument is wearing thin. It is all but proven fact now that handguns carried by law abiding citizens do not cause trouble for other law abiding citizens.

    If someone open carries here, they get little attention. Very few choose to open carry anyway.
     
  5. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    I think it would be too complicated. “This way, by the time a person open carries...it is known to everyone that this person can indeed be trusted... he has been carrying concealed for at least 4 years without incident.” Just how is that supposed to work? If I were to see someone open-carrying, I just assume he's susscessfully CCW'ed for the requisite time? Am I supposed to ask him?
    I don't think so. Open carry or CCW with permit, decide upon one or the other, and stick to it.

    Just my two cents .....
     
  6. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    I would prefer the system that Vermont, Alaska, and Arizona have in place - namely, if you can own a gun, you can carry it. I don't see the point to, or advantage of a "tiered" system.
     
  7. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    Criminal laws should regulate criminals - not law-abiding citizens.
     
  8. TexasBill

    TexasBill Member

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    How about open carry for four years and then we'll trust you to carry concealed? Or carry for four years, then you can put cartridges in it (we'll call it the Barney Fife Gun Control Act)?
     
  9. BleysAhrens

    BleysAhrens Member

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    What if a person who was open carrying had an obvious high cap mag, do you think it would bother you, or others? I'm in AZ, and some times I CC, and some times I open carry.
     
  10. TexasBill

    TexasBill Member

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    You mean like a Glock with a 30-round stick? Or a FN FiveSeveN like the one used by Nalik Hasan, the Army major who killed 13 people at Ft. Hood? It has a standard 20-round magazine.

    What's a "obvious" high-cap magazine? For that matter, what is a high-cap magazine? Most full-size 9 mm semi-auto pistols hold at least 15 rounds in their standard, non-California magazines. Loughner fired 31 shots; that's less than two magazines for the typical modern 9 mm pistol.

    I have a Beretta PX4 Storm F. With the optional 20-round magazine, it mostly looks like it has a grip extension. Its standard magazine capacity is 17 rounds.

    Now if I saw someone with a Glock with a 30-round stick and a couple of spare 30-rounds sticks, or somebody with a bunch (i.e., more than two) of extra magazines, I might notice enough to actually call in a report. That's not self-defense; that's either somebody looking to start a war or an over-the-top Mall Ninja that needs a serious talking-to.
     
  11. Just One Shot

    Just One Shot Member

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    Here in Ohio you don't need a permit to open carry and I'm against anyone even suggesting that one should be required. It's my opinion that we shouldn't need a permit at all, even to CC. But hey, the law is the law so until we can get it changed I'll abide by it. ;)
     
  12. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Nope. Sorry. We need to take steps forward, not sideways or backward into still more government meddling.
     
  13. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Exactly
     
  14. IlikeSA

    IlikeSA Member

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    Perhaps tools shouldn't be regulated, but rather actions. We all agree that a firearm is just another tool, and is nothing special. Non-gun related, but related story:

    I currently reside in S. Korea where weapons laws are very much enforced, and my pocketknife was called a "sword" at the airport. Yeah, it's got a 3.5 inch blade, but it is not a sword, and it is not a translation error. Where I am from in the US, most men carry a pocketknife, but my colleagues flipped out over my 3.5 inch folder. For me, it was normal, but for them, abnormal. When she asked why I had it, I simply peeled an apple. If people stop focusing on the tool and see it as normal, then others will see the ones who overreact as nutcases.

    In the same way, when I first saw my students carrying razor blades, I was a bit taken back. But then I realized that it is normal for students to carry them, and no one is out cutting each other. They use them to sharpen pencils. They do agree though that my knife if more effective than their razor at sharpening pencils though. Back on track:

    Open carry of a firearm is the same way...the more people open carry, the more used to it people get, and then the ones who overreact over nothing are the ones who are thought of as crazy.

    That is why I believe actions should be regulated, not tools. The guy with 3 30 round extended magazines may be funny looking, but...is he doing anything wrong? Should we make a law to hinder his freedom? If he hasn't and isn't doing anything wrong, why react over it?
     
  15. Hanzerik

    Hanzerik Member

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    Hopefully Wyoming will be joining those states. There is a Bill in the works.
     
  16. killchain

    killchain Member

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    Absolutely not, the 2nd Amendment is the only "permit" you need for carry, open or concealed. Period.
     
  17. mcdonl

    mcdonl Member

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    Killchain, I think you mean the 2nd Amendment SHOULD be the only "permit" required as there are certainly laws in place saying otherwise.

    In Maine you need a permit to CCW and anyone can OC but I hardly do.

    It is like my tattoos. I like them, they are for me. But I have them in places I can conceal as I know a lot of people do not feel comfortable around 250 pound men with tattoos. I have no intention of making my fellow citizens uncomfortable.

    Same with CCW. I carry for my own personal protection, not to prove a point or push a cause.
     
  18. NJ Accountant

    NJ Accountant Member

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    My opinion is there should just be carry. Open or concealed is in the end the same. You are carrying a firearm.

    Open carry everyone can see it. Thus might make them uncomfortable. Tactically it means a loss of element of surprise and having the bad Guy going for the pistol first. Upside they may be reluctant to attack due to the clear presence of the firearm and if they do most gun owners will be able to draw faster.

    Concealed carry removes the frightened public aspect but added complications with printing and whatnot depending on the laws. Tactically you gain the element of surprise and make it difficult for assailants to grab the gun while its holstered. Public benefits from the conceal carrier as bad guys do not know who is packing
    This may add a general discomfort to the uneducated public that they don't know who is carrying. They just don't realize that they don't know who is carrying illegally regardless of the law.

    It all breaks down to emotions not logic when they say you have to do one or another.
     
  19. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Perfectly stated.
     
  20. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    While AK/VA/AZ carry rules should be the norm, no concealed carry permit system is reasonable since any exposure of the firearm is technically a violation of "concealed" requirement of those carry permits.
     
  21. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    I'm with Texas Bill on this one. I think the original proposed idea is backwards.

    If a person is planning on using a gun for nefarious purposes, such as an armed robbery, do you see them carrying that gun in a visible holster on a public street prior to the robbery? Ummmm.... no. Open carry should be the basic right of law abiding citizens to carry guns for self defense, not regulated by government - if there is going to be any compromising the 2nd Amendment to begin with. I believe it is compromising the 2nd amendment to regulate any method of carry, though to include regulating where people can/cannot carry.
     
  22. zoom6zoom

    zoom6zoom Member

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    Remind me, which part of the Constitution lists the right not to feel uncomfortable?

    Fewer permits, not more. I can and do OC without a permit in my state.
     
  23. Chuck41

    Chuck41 Member

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    Open carry is currently being debated in the Arkansas legislature. I sincerely hope it passes.

    Unfortunately if it does pass there will be a few idiots that will think it is really cool to wear their big huge Glock on one hip and their 44 mag on the other when they go to the grocery store or Wal Mart in downtown Little Rock just because they can. That will pass in a while as folks get used to the law, but it will happen and freak some folks out that are not used to seeing it.

    I grew up in Louisiana where open carry is legal and never ever heard of a problem. CCW is the best way for self-protection, but the threat of hassles if you have an inadvertent exposure of the weapon is a real bummer.
     
  24. stuckinsocal

    stuckinsocal Member

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    Why????? Calling the police on someone when you have no legitimate reason to believe he's committing or about to commit a crime is just plain pathetic and stupid. It's what the anti's do here in CA when people open carry anunloaded gun....merely for carrying the gun, they don't have any reason to believe a crime is being committed. Who are you to decide what he should and shouldn't be able to carry for self defense? Why bring the law into a situation where you're imposing your standards on what constitutes legit self defense tools when there's no reason to?
    As for "an over-the-top Mall Ninja"......*** does he need a "serious talking-to" about, doing something that you don't approve of?
     
  25. killchain

    killchain Member

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    Let me correct you... it's not "SHOULD..." it's "IS."

    Otherwise we agree. I support and do open carry once in a while, but I prefer to conceal. I won't hold it against anyone who wants to open carry though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2011
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