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U.S. Army Switching to Hollow Point Ammunition

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Aragon, Jul 8, 2015.

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  1. 4thPointOfContact

    4thPointOfContact Member

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    I'm fairly sure the groups we're fighting against in the Middle East aren't signatories to the Coventions, so why aren't they using them now?
     
  2. AKElroy

    AKElroy Member

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    Maybe I'm cynical to a fault, but this administration would only agree to this change if this somehow disadvantaged legal civilian gun owners, (supply and price, maybe?) and also somehow made our military less effective. (Yep, I said it). Can someone cite any decision in the last 7 years that has improved combat readiness? Much less any administration decision that has helped gun owners?

    Nope, this one has to hurt both somehow or these folks woudn't be doing it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
  3. Lycidas Janwor

    Lycidas Janwor Member

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    That might be true for long gun ammo, but pistol ammo?
     
  4. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    A Law Enforcement officer on the street of any city in America is far more likely to encounter body armor than a soldier fighting your traditional guerrilla fighter in Iraq or Afghanistan. So calling our current ammo armor piercing is a pretty moot point. Where HP rounds would shine is Afghans and Iraqis are very thin, not large like their American counterparts loaded up with fast food.

    I am willing to bet the military has stuck with FMJ ammo this long for logistical reasons than whether or not we play by the rules based off international treaty. When NATO was the big kid on the block, everyone wanted to standardize rounds. This is why ammo is called 9mm NATO and 5.56 NATO. The French could use our stuff, ours theirs etc it just simplified logistics in a SHTF (military wise) situation. Never really happened. NATO lost some pull and the member countries started getting off the NATO standard of ammo. Our move to HP and possible a different caliber is our own version of that.
     
  5. Aragon

    Aragon member

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    Not a matter of "fast food." It's a matter of having adequate protein throughout one's growing years.
     
  6. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    The Army is planning to lay off 40,000 troops and 17,000 civil service.
    If Budget Sequestration kicks in again - as our free spending leaders pretty much guarantee - they would have to lay off another 30,000 over the next three years.

    They can't afford to change ammo, much less guns.
    They shouldn't have to pay the wonks and REMFs who do the studies, either.
     
  7. 45_auto

    45_auto Member

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    That's like saying you can't afford to buy ammo to go shooting because your cable TV bill is $300 per month.

    They could easily afford it, it's just a question of priority on where the budget is spent.
     
  8. TimSr

    TimSr Member

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    Sad to say I have no argument or evidence that would rebut your speculation.
     
  9. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    Agreed. The US military would probably gain more advantage if both sides started using HP since most enemies we currently fight lack body armor and the 5.56 round would probably see a greater increase in effectiveness than 7.62 would going to HP. But, at the end of the day i'm skeptical that going to 5.56 would really be much of a deciding factor in outcomes of military endeavors. If not, is exposing soldiers to more egregious wounds seems hard to justify.

    In the event of a conflict with a sophisticated, state sponsored army, like that of China or Russia, HP might become more of a liability as well if the enemy soldiers also wear body armor and use 22 caliber projectiles.
     
  10. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    This is true for most. But many people feel "cable" is necessary and other expenditures bend around it just like a telephone. The problem with priorities in government is deciding when the priority exists. I think with the world the way it is now, we don't have time to train 10 divisions of men before reacting to a crisis. It shows in Iraq. No time. We're just getting weaker..... ISIS will win.
     
  11. herkyguy

    herkyguy Member

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    Too bad Jihawg Defensive Ammunition closed its doors......
     
  12. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    I'm not sure if there us such a thing as armor piercing pistol ammo.

    I could be wrong.
     
  13. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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  14. cheygriz

    cheygriz member

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    The army has developed a 62 grain hollowpoint that retains the steel penetrator of M855 ball.

    Whether or not it will ever be "general issue" is anybody's guess, but it is available.

    9MM JHP is already being used by some SpecOps operators in clandestine missions.

    IMHO, general issue of both is probable eventually
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2015
  15. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    Is that the stuff that shoots through houses, refrigerators, cars and the people inside them?
     
  16. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    If it's not used in war against other nations, no Geneva Convention violation.
     
  17. Lycidas Janwor

    Lycidas Janwor Member

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    I might be wrong about this but I thought the 5.7 was supposed to be an armor defeating pistol ammo?
     
  18. cheygriz

    cheygriz member

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    The 5.7 will defeat SOFT body armor. But not military plate carriers.
     
  19. Drail

    Drail Member

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    So how many people think that hollow point ammo might cause problems in full auto weapons? Would you run HP ammo in your full auto weapon? Just curious. Maybe we are only discussing handgun ammo here - I am not sure. I am still of the opinion that our military's use of ball ammo is totally based on feed reliability and not wounding potential.
     
  20. Aragon

    Aragon member

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    The "Geneva Convention" deals with imprisonment and not combat during a time of war.
     
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