Uberti Remington 1875 Outlaw 1st firing

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by lagerratrobe, Dec 8, 2016.

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  1. lagerratrobe

    lagerratrobe Member

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    Hi All,

    Wanted to report on the first firing of my Uberti 1875 Remington .45. I picked it up yesterday at Sportsman's Warehouse and took it out to the range today. I'm intending to use it with black powder cartridges, but I shot it today with Hornady 255 grain Cowboy loads. I don't have my reloading press up yet (or any saved brass) and the store only had smokeless rounds. I'm pretty happy with the gun overall. It had some drag lines on the cylinder when I bought it, which is annoying, but hopefully not an indication of messed up timing. Here are a couple specific items that I noticed.

    The Good
    • Accuracy of this gun is excellent. At 10 meters, the gun shoots perfectly with the rounds listed above. No front sight adjustment seems to be needed, which is nice. The front sight blade is nice and thin and the sight-picture through the frame channel is excellent. I'm looking forward to shooting the gun at longer distances.
    • Fit and finish look very good. Bluing is even and the case hardening looks nice. Screws are all crisp and I see no signs of marring anywhere on the gun, except for the previously mentioned drag line on the cylinder.
    The "Bad"
    • Grips are "ok". They don't look bad, but they have sharp corners on the butt that dig into the heel of my palm every time I fire. I will probably spend some time smoothing them out to see if I can make them more comfortable. I may possibly make a new set to experiment with grip shape and sizes as well.
    • The 1/4-cock-safety position is weird and takes some getting used to. I'm used to my 1858 C&B and am often dropping the hammer into the 1/4 cock position, instead of all the way down. I'd love to hear what other owners of this gun think of the feature. I was loading 5-round cylinders, so I'm not relying on it. Does seem to work though.
    The Ugly
    • I had a couple instances where it felt like the cylinder jammed. Am not 100% sure of this, but I know that in one case I had the gun loaded with the hammer down, pulled the hammer back into 1/2 cock and tried to rotate the cylinder and it felt stuck. Pulled the hammer all the way back and the cylinder rotated. I'm hoping there is nothing mechanically worn on the bolt or cam that's causing this.
    I admit that I broke one of my rules by firing the gun today before completely stripping, cleaning and oiling and then putting it back together. I had the cylinder out last night and ran some patches down the barrel, but that's all. One thing I noticed today is that unfired cartridges are loose-as-a-goose in the cylinder. I actually wondered if one of the cases had backed out and was getting hung up on the rim somewhere on the recoil shield. Hopefully once I start using reloads, some of that looseness will be addressed by the cases having expanded a bit.

    How are other owners of this gun liking it?
     
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  2. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Cool gun. I've wanted one forever. Got pics?
     
  3. lagerratrobe

    lagerratrobe Member

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    Here's a stock one from the Uberti site. I'll take some of my own when I clean it later today.

    1875_Outlaw.png
     
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  4. Flatbush Harry

    Flatbush Harry Member

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    To date, my Uberti Remington 1875 has only been used with "Cowboy" loads...6.3gr Unique under a 255gr RNFP. I find it exceptionally smooth and accurate. The 7-1/2" bbl and different shape grips take a bit of getting used to as I more regularly shoot my 4-3/4" Uberti Cattleman Black Powder frame, same loads. I really enjoy the 1875...were I into CAS, I'd get another.

    Cheers,

    Harry
     
  5. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    Howdy

    Was this a new gun? If so, it should not have any drag lines on the cylinder, evidence that it was messed with and the hammer lowered from the half cock position.

    Let us know how it does with Black Powder. The cylinder bushing on those is not as tall as the bushing on a Colt, and it may tend to bind up a bit with BP loads.

    Dunno what to say about the cylinder problems without examining the gun in person.
     
  6. Dog Soldier

    Dog Soldier member

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    Maybe you should check the chamber dimensions? I would mike the brass cases before and after firing. It sounds like the trigger return spring is weak or has been worked on. Just some thoughts. Good luck.
     
  7. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    lagerratrobe

    Congrats on the new gun! Have always wanted one of the Uberti Remington Model 1875. Just something about the design of the gun with the "sail" under the barrel that fascinates me.
     
  8. Dog Soldier

    Dog Soldier member

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    The "Sail" you refer to is actually a guide. These revolvers were mad for mounted troops. When trying to holster a Colt the rod housing would catch on the holster making it difficult to holster the gun. The under barrel guide was added for that reason. Did it work??:)
     
  9. Texas Moon

    Texas Moon Member

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    Very recently I too purchased an Uberti 1875 Remington.
    Mine has the additional .45acp cylinder.
    It shoots superbly with .45acp. Dead on at 50ft.
    The .45Colt doesn't shoot quite as well but I believe its more ammo related than anything. I've only fired very low power cowboy ammo so far.
    I didn't like the factory grips either. Swapped them out to a slimmer faux ivory grip. Mucho better for me.
    Frankly,it points better for me than a Colt SAA. :what:
     
  10. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    Here is an excellent video about the 1875 Remington.

     
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  11. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Very interesting. However, I'm a stickler for historical accuracy when it comes to repros and it looks like Uberti missed the mark in several areas on these 1875 Remingtons. These are not nearly as "correct" as most of their cap and ball revolvers. The deviations from the original design keep me away from this one, but they are interesting and for a CAS/SASS gun it's just a little different than the other guy's Colts and Rugers so they're fun.
     
  12. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    Well, if you are that much of a stickler you could try to locate one of the 1875 Remington revolvers that were made by The Hartford Armory. These were much truer to the original design, with the original center pin design. However, not very many were made, and the company went out of business a number of years ago. I know somebody who had a pair, and they were truly excellent revolvers.

    Good luck finding one.
     
  13. lagerratrobe

    lagerratrobe Member

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    Thanks to all of you who have responded, really appreciate the feedback. I shot the gun again yesterday and then tore it completely apart to clean it and deburr moving parts. I used HSM cowboy loads this time, 200 grain bullets, and accuracy was still excellent. I did feel like there was higher recoil with these, so I'll probably stick to the 255 grain in the future. (If I can, I'd like to reload using Keith style SWCs that are pre-lubed for BP. If anyone can recommend where to buy them, I'd appreciate it.) I had one instance of the gun not dropping the bolt at half-cock, but going to full cock did the trick. I checked the bolt cam for wear later and it was fine, but I still suspect the hand was binding or sticking somehow. This is entirely possible given the condition of the gun's guts.

    I left the ejector housing and load gate alone, but stripped the rest of the gun down to its bits and pieces. There were a couple items of note that are worth mentioning here. There was a small, but noticeable, burr on the lip of the hand, which I carefully stoned down. The sides of the hand were extremely rough with machine marks, which I carefully stoned and then lapped on some wet-dry paper. The hammer and sear notches were fine and I left them alone (the safety notch is a travesty though). The hand channel was rough, really rough. It actually felt like a parkerized finish at first. I used wet dry on a popsicle stick and a bit of WD-40 to polish it up a bit. I suspect it will take multiple iterations to make it as good as I'd like. @Dog Soldier nailed one of the problems on the head when he mentioned the trigger spring as a potential problem area. The spring on this Uberti is stamped out and frankly not of very good quality. It appears that the stamping process distorted the area of the spring that the screw passes though and prevented the spring from fully seating against the frame of the gun. I flattened the spring on a small anvil with a hammer and then faced it flat on a diamond stone. I suspect that it's going to break sometime in the future, but who knows, I've seen other pieces of crap last forever. Everything else seemed ok machanically, so I cleaned, oiled and greased it all and put it back together.

    Which brings me to the rust, yes rust. I was shocked at how much rust I pulled out of the lands when I cleaned the bore. I must have bore-brushed at least 4 separate times, repeatedly, with Hoppes #9 and a brass bore brush and run at least a dozen tight, tight patches down the bore. Dry patches are coming out clean now, but I suspect if I run a tight greased patch down, I'll pull more crap out. This is the dirtiest bore I've ever seen and that includes seeing rifles and machine guns that have been out in the field and fired hundreds of times. I have a suspicion that the gun was bought, fired, and returned because of the sticking bolt and that the cylinder was scored at that time. Which means that it probably then sat for months afterwards with a dry and dirty bore. I do recall thinking that it had less grease on it when I pulled it out of the bag than the new Pietta I bought, but I didn't think much of it at the time. IN any case, it's relatively clean now and I've swabbed some Rem-oil through it which will hopefully arrest any further corrosion until I shoot it again next week. I suspect I'll be scrubbing that bore lout ike a maniac for a few months.

    I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about this gun. I think that for $399 I got a pretty good deal. I would NOT pay the $549 list price that's being asked by some, that's for sure. It shoots good, which at the end of the day is what really matters, I suppose. I think that with use, and perseverance in maintenance and cleaning, the action will become very smooth and it will operate safely and reliably. At the moment, I wouldn't take this gun to the field with me, only to the range, because I don't fully trust it. Partially that's just because it's new to me. The main reason I purchased this gun was because I wanted to start reloading and shooting .45 BP cartridges. I debated buying a conversion cylinder for my Pietta 1858 (a gun which I absolutely LOVE), but paying $250 and not having a load gate or ejector just felt ridiculous. At the same time, I am VERY comfortable cleaning that Remington action and I know that with BP I'll want to strip and clean the gun after every shooting session. So I think it's a keeper, but it's a bit of a red-headed step child at the moment. One thing I know though, If I decide to buy an 1873 clone at some point in the future, it'll be a Pietta. I prefer the way my 1858 is machined and put together to this 1875 and I don't think that's just a function of the different models.

    I'll report further once I have a couple hundred rounds fired through this one.
     
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  14. lagerratrobe

    lagerratrobe Member

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    Cylinder chambers consistently slug out to .453.
     
  15. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    Howdy

    A couple of things don't make sense to me.

    If the bolt was stuck, you would not be able to get the hammer to half cock. You do mean half cock, right, and not the 'safety cock' position? To get the hammer to half cock, the bolt would have to withdraw to allow the cylinder to rotate so you could get the hammer to half cock. If the bolt does not withdraw into the frame, the cylinder cannot turn at all, and that jams the hammer up so you cannot pull it back to cock it. You could probably bring the hammer back to the 'safety cock' position, where the hammer only moves back about 1/8" with the bolt still up, that is going to be normal for any revolver with that type of lockwork, the Remington lockwork is pretty much the same as a Colt lockwork. When you got the hammer to half cock did the cylinder rotate, as it is supposed to? If so, the bolt withdrew into the frame as it is supposed to. What happens if you pull the cylinder out of the gun and work the hammer? Does the bolt pull down and then pop back up like it is supposed to? If so, I doubt you have a problem with the bolt.

    Was the gun sold to you as new? A few days ago I questioned about buying a gun with a turn line around the cylinder. If the gun was sold to you as new, and you think it was not new, why have you not complained to the seller?

    I have a couple of 1858 Remingtons with conversion cylinders. Not a Pietta, but it does not matter, they all function the same. I have the original R&D six shot cylinders for my Remmies. Lacking a loading gate is no big deal because the cylinder is so easy to pop out on a Remmie that I just pop the cylinder out to reload. As for the lack of an ejector, again not a problem. One of my Remmies I can use the end of the loading lever to pop out the empties. The other one has a slightly wider latch that will not enter the chambers, but I have a brass rod in my ammo box at CAS matches that serves the same purpose.


    It really is not necessary to completely take a revolver apart and clean everything on the inside every time you shoot Black Powder out of it. There are ways around that. I have been shooting cartridges loaded with Black Power in revolvers for a long time. I very seldom take the whole gun apart to clean everything. Taking the gun apart every time you risk buggering up the screw head slots, and cross threading the screws, not to mention maybe losing something. There are ways to shoot Black Powder in a revolver, either Cap & Ball or cartridge without taking the thing completely apart after every use.

    But that is a subject for another time.
     
  16. lagerratrobe

    lagerratrobe Member

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    Hi @Driftwood Johnson ,

    Yes, the gun was sold as new. I purchased it with the score lines because it was the last one in the merchant's inventory across the entire country. It was actually special-ordered and transferred from another location for me. The scoring is something I can live with as the price was right, $399 instead of $599 (or more) elsewhere.

    The $250 for an 1858 conversion cylinder is as much as I paid for the gun itself. I refuse to do that, sorry. I'm familiar with how easy it is to drop the cylinder to reload, as I do the same thing. Had not considered using the ramming lever to eject empties, but that's a good idea. If I see them on sale for around $150 sometime, I'll consider getting one - maybe.

    I was screwing around with the 1875 a few minutes ago and realized that what's happening. I'm pulling the hammer back past 1/2 cock - sometimes - to the point where the 3rd click of the bolt engaging the cylinder happens. I let go of the hammer and it drops back to 1/2 cock, but the bolt stays engaged. I then think I'm at 1/2 cock and am surprised when I try to rotate the cylinder and find it locked.

    I shoot a fair bit of Pyrodex, hence the anal-retentiveness about cleaning. I might be exagerating (a little) about dropping the hammer and other guts out after every shooting session, but not by alot.

    Thanks for the reply.
     
  17. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    Sitting here with a Colt in my hand and trying to duplicate what you said.

    When pulling the hammer back to half cock, on releaving the hammer it moves forward slightly to nestle with the sear in the half cock notch on the hammer. Cylinder should be free to rotate clockwise, when viewed from the rear, at this point.

    Pull the hammer back a bit more and the bolt pops up against the cylinder. It should not be entering the locking notches at this point, if the timing is correct the bolt should pop up against the lead in to the locking notches.The bolt should be putting enough pressure against the cylinder to prevent it from rotating any more at this point. Forcing the cylinder to rotate, particularly backwards, at this point will help score a turn line against the cylinder. Continue pulling the hammer all the way back and the cylinder should rotate all the way and lock in battery.

    I guess I never bring the hammer anywhere but half cock or all the way to full cock. Any position between half cock and full cock is not a good idea, just bring the hammer all the way from half cock to full cock. Then pull the trigger and lower the hammer all the way down.

    Regarding the Remington cylinders, I bought my first one about ten years ago for a EuroArms Remington that I had bought in 1975. The cylinder cost about $190 then, if I recall correctly, but I had bought the gun so long ago that it was like I was getting a new cartridge gun for $190, because I had amortized the cost of the gun long ago. The second one, a Stainless Uberti, I bought used. It came with the R&D cylinder along with the standard C&B cylinder. I don't remember the price now, but it was about what I would pay for a used cartridge revolver anyway, so the R&D cylinder was like a bonus. I have never fired that gun with its C&B cylinder, I have always fired it with cartridges.

    So for me, the R&D cylinders were a good deal.
     
  18. lagerratrobe

    lagerratrobe Member

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    Right, so try this. Slowly pull the hammer back until you hear the 3rd click, then let it go. It will drop into the 1/2 cock hammer notch, but the hand will have slipped off the cam and the bolt will be engaged in the cylinder. So you have a hammer at half cock and a locked cylinder. Somehow, I'm pulling too far past 1/2 cock to where the bolt engages. I'm pretty sure it's operator headspace and timing, not the gun's fault.
     
  19. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    I hope you are lowering the hammer to half cock from the third click, and not letting go, as you wrote. Letting go of the hammer from the third click and letting the spring power it down to half cock is a bad idea, a good way to break off the tiny lip of the half cock notch, or perhaps even break the sear. These are not Rugers, the parts are not that robust.

    Just tried it with a 1st Gen Colt, two 2nd Gen Colts, and an Uberti Cattleman. Of course I lowered the hammers, I did not let them go. No, the cylinders are not locking up. Yes, the bolt (not the hand) has popped off the cam so it has popped up against the cylinder, but it is bearing against the lead in to the locking notches, it has not jumped to the locking notches. The bolt is holding the cylinder in place with enough pressure so it does not move, it is not wedging the cylinder around to the locking notches.

    Don't know if there is something wrong with the timing of the bolt on your gun, but I suggest you only bring the hammer to half cock or full cock. Don't bring the hammer back to the third click and then lower it to half cock.

    Reminds me of the old Hennie Youngman joke. Man walks into the doctor's office and says 'Doctor, it hurts when I do this'. The doctor replies, 'Then don't do that'.
     
  20. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Sounds like you're having to overcome an extremely stiff mainspring (?) causing you to "over draw " the hammer. If at that point the cylinder spins on around to battery and locks up, the hand spring is too light. Also loosen the hammer screw and try to cycle the action slowly (could be a bad case of "cheek squeeze !).
    BTW, how many " clicks" does your Remie have?

    Mike
     
  21. lagerratrobe

    lagerratrobe Member

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    Been awhile since I updated this thread and this will likely be my last entry on it in the blackpowder area, since I've moved to shooting smokeless reloads exclusively in this gun. I've now shot around 500 rounds through it and I love it. I think the cylinder locking issues I reported earlier were due to operator headspace and timing. I haven't had any problems since firing the gun more often.

    I've fired a box of Pyrodex reloads with 37 grains of powder and 200 grain Oregon Trail cast LRNFP bullets. I needed that much powder to have no air-gap with a thin card wad and that short bullet. Kicked hard, made a big boom and fouled the gun in about 15 rounds. I pressed on to 20 and then stopped because I could barely turn the cylinder. Did that once more and went out to Sportsmans Warehouse and bought some Trailboss powder. Haven't looked back since.

    With Trailboss, I've found that 6.4 grains of TB and a 200 grain bullet work great. I've also shot this load with a 250 grain bullet and it seems to work even better. However, fair warning, that last load exceeds the recommended max of 5.8 grn TB for 250 grains. The gun shoots to point of aim at 10 meters with these both of these loads, but I get tighter groups with the heavier bullets.

    I've also just recently tried some reloads using Accurate No. 5. I've shot a few rounds with 11 grns No. 5 with 200 grain bullets and also with 250 grain bullets. Again, this load with 250 grain bullets *probably* exceeds the recommended max. I say *probably* because the mfg doesn't have a load listed for 250 grain lead bullets, just 255 grain. 11 grns is the max for a 250 grain jacketed XTP, which means I'm probably getting slightly higher velocity and pressure with a cast lead bullet. That load is also listed by Taffin as being reasonable for SAA and clones though, (http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt45lc.htm).

    The 200 grain bullets with No. 5 are nothing special. For me, they are the least accurate in this gun. The 250 grain bullets are exciting to shoot and fairly accurate as well. I'm not a fan of No. 5 though. It's smoky, my cases are sooty black after they're ejected (although fine otherwise) and the gun is hot after firing. I will probably finish that powder up exclusively in a short barrel Blackhawk and stick with Trailboss in the Uberti.

    Anyhow, back to the gun. It seems like it shoots where it's pointed no matter what I feed it. It's easy to clean and the sights work remarkably well. I did use a Sharpie to blacken the entire length of the hog trough, which helped eliminate some glare that I was getting from the case hardened finish and doesn't seem to detract from the overall appearance of the gun.

    I highly recommend you have a look at this gun, if you're in the market for a well-made replica.
     
  22. Crawdad1

    Crawdad1 Member

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    That is a great looking revolver.
     
  23. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    You may not be interested, but if you were using standard Smokeless bullets with Smokeless lube on them, that is why your revolver bound up so quickly. Even though it is a BP sub, Pyrodex still needs soft, BP compatible bullet lube on the bullets, or what you described will happen.
     
  24. Dog Soldier

    Dog Soldier member

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    Yes, a very dependable lube for BP or Subs is "SPG".:thumbup:
     
  25. Cowhide Cliff

    Cowhide Cliff Member

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    there is no such thing as too much cleaning with Pyrodex. That stuff is horrible.

    After the smoke clears and you remove your hearing protection you can listen real close and hear your gun rust.
     
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