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UK Handgun Ownership/Carry

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by razorback2003, Dec 5, 2012.

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  1. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    And the fact that they often present the best option for defense, especially if there is a disparity of force.

    Guns are also safer for all involved, IMHO. Someone who pulls a knife on me, for example, is likely to walk away if I draw a gun. If I am unarmed and he charges me, well I've been trained on a couple of ways to stab someone with their own knife. I prefer the deterrent over the scuffle where probably both of us end up bleeding and at least one is severely injured.
     
  2. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Sam911: Homicides reported in England in f.y. 2010/2011: 636

    We are only supposed to list the number of shooting murders (1st degree) for UK, then lump suicides and accidents with homicides for the US figures.
     
  3. razorback2003

    razorback2003 Member

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    Scrumbag,

    That does not surprise me that there are 3,000 legal handguns in the UK. Those who are connected still are able to have a way even though the rest cannot.
     
  4. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    I find it funny that the UK needs to have the elite carrying handguns, because the excuse for the anti- elites carrying here is that if the BGs have guns, they want guns. In the UK, supposedly the BGs don't have guns, so why does the elite need them?
     
  5. razorback2003

    razorback2003 Member

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    Yeah it is especially pathetic in Canada, Australia, and the UK that if the average person submits that he wants to buy a firearm for self defense, his application is denied. The police claim that self defense is not a reason to own a gun.

    But if the elite want a gun for self defense to even carry, he can. And even more so, they do not want the information leaked out that a few special people are carrying guns that for most people are flat out not legal to own in those countries even with a license.
     
  6. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    I don't normally nitpick grammar, but I think it changes the meaning if I'm correct on this: do you mean flat out illegal?
     
  7. hq

    hq Member

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    Plenty. The problem is widely publicized in a number of studies and newspaper articles. During last 15 years all decline in homicide and crime rate in the UK has coincided with government-mandated changes in recording and publishing statistics. This is a fairly well-known issue, try a search engine, you'll be very surprised with what you'll find, if you still think UK government and home office even try to be truthful. Occasional leaks from police districts have shown a 200-300%+ difference between official figures and the reality.
     
  8. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Member

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    jack404 -- GREAT post. Give Becky Peters our regards :fire:
     
  9. jack404

    jack404 Member

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    luddite , aint you heard ?? she's in boston organising for obama , no foolin
     
  10. Scrumbag

    Scrumbag Member

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    Yeah, sadly in the UK there is a view that firearms should only be owned by the government. Sadly we are moving rapidly towards the nanny state.

    And HQ is right. People just generally don't believe gov't figures in the UK. Most people believe them to be if not directly fraudulent, the methodology for calculating statistics is often skewed in the Gov't favour. (I'm an economist by profession and so I notice this in EU gov't figures generally).

    ATB,

    Scrummy
     
  11. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Member

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    Jack--I knew she'd made the rounds here a few years back selling the same snake oil George Sorros was providing her. I'll have to read up on her.The UN Treaty will be the next big hurdle.
     
  12. razorback2003

    razorback2003 Member

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    If you look, most of these gun control laws around the world around the same time. Mid 90's US gets the assault weapon ban, Australia a lot of guns banned, Canada required gun registration and bans, and UK handgun ban.
     
  13. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    I was reading a thread (think here) about a UK home invasion.
    where a member had his licensed? demilled in a glass case, and ended up pulling it on the home invaders. Called the cops a number of times, once it was established that he had ran them off, there was no interest in it, until he mentioned he had used his demil to do it.

    The cops showed up FOR HIM, once he convinced them it was legally owned, they mentioned all the paperwork and charges HE would face, that they would steal (hold as evidence) his dewatted gun, as for the criminals, and taking a police report.....

    eh, they'd never find them anyways, so, we are going to report you're fine, not mention anything, you keep your gun, and have a nice day, or this will go badly for you......

    And people wonder why I say NEVER negotiate on the second, it's pointless when you have nothing to win, and everything to loose.
     
  14. Bohemus

    Bohemus Member

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    Interestingly Eurostat shows different data: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Crime_trends_in_detail
     
  15. DurangoKid

    DurangoKid Member

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    The 1930s most of Europe was disarmed. The German people went down and turned their firearms in to the Nazis.
     
  16. bobmcd

    bobmcd Member

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  17. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Member

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    Godwin's law in just 40 posts. :)
     
  18. Dr_B

    Dr_B member

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    The UK has a very violent history. They controlled an empire once, and before that they massacred people on their own island. And we're the ones with a lust for bloodsport?

    Forget about handgun carry over there. Its not even legal to carry a pocket knife. At least when I was there in 2010 you could be arrested for having one on you, and saying it was a tool or for protection was no good.
     
  19. DurangoKid

    DurangoKid Member

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    I think a pocket knife was legal when I was there. I carried one at that time. The laws are very anti firearms in all the of the old English held Nations as well as England. I found most of the people in favor of strong gun laws in those countries. Some one posted that the Nazis were not antgun. I can not believe where these yarns come from.
     
  20. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Consider
    you average brit cop is NOW armed, wears body armor etc.

    BEFORE the ban
    there was felt no need
    the reason 'bobby's' historically were unarmed was that there was the assumption (1800's early 19th century) that if a gun was needed, they would simply enlist 'upstanding citizens' (Posse Comitus BTW) who were assumed to be armed...

    NOW, gun crime is rising, and even the home office can't squelch that
    Kitchen knives are regulated
    Glass beer mugs are banned
    Plastic mugs are rated NOT to break into sharp shards

    BTW, UK has a HIGHER violent crime rate than the US, but hey who's counting that, it's ONLY the 'murders' (and lets not get into HOW they are spun...) that count, after all, other numbers might show that gun control doesn't work.
     
  21. Scrumbag

    Scrumbag Member

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    The UK is ridiculous. I'm glad I left. Really enjoying being able to carry a penknife with a locking blade and not break the law and shoot my growing collection of handguns...

    M19 or 1911 next...? Tough choices...
     
  22. hq

    hq Member

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    Frankly, - and unfortunately - UK is a country that exists primarily for its government, not its citizens. The density of police-monitored surveillance cameras is staggering (one for every 14 people :eek:) , blaming inanimate objects for crime is out of proportion, criminal legislation is biased towards perceived danger instead of real one, government has pretty much an absolute power over its subj... eh, I mean citizens. Even regular policemen aren't generally trusted; only special firearms units can carry guns on duty and they resemble a paramilitary riot squad with armored vehicles, body armor, helmets and SMG:s.

    UK is the only place in the world where I've been carded when I wanted to buy silverware (SPOONS!) and these assault spoons were in a locked display case as mandated by the law.

    A couple of my friends are high-ranking UK police officials and they've told me countless stories how screwed up and hypocritical the whole system is. I wish I could repeat some of them here, just to scratch the surface. One of them, for example, had only fired about 50 rounds with a handgun in his life, in supervised environment, and he was pretty much ecstatic visiting my summer place when I took a bunch of handguns and machine guns out of the safe, gave him a case of ammo and told him to have fun on the backyard.
     
  23. jack404

    jack404 Member

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    NOTE!!! this was written in 1999 after a years research (1998)

    Gun Control in Australia --- Chaos Down Under

    Miguel A. Faria, Jr., MD
    Last August, the rugged Aussie survivalist whose real life exploits inspired the "Crocodile Dundee" movies died in what then appeared to be a mysterious shootout with Australian police. A police sergeant was also killed in the incident. It was reported that Rodney William Ansell, the 44-year-old, blond haired Aussie, resembled uncannily Paul Hogan the actor who played his part in the movie and the sequel. Although Ansell was no angel and had had previous run-ins with police, he had been named 1988 Australian Northern Territory Man of the Year for inspiring the movie and putting "the Australian Outback on the map."

    What motivated this shooting? In 1996, Australia adopted draconian gun control laws banning certain guns (60 percent of all firearms), requiring registration of all firearms and licensing of all gun owners. "Crocodile Dundee" believed the police were coming to confiscate his unregistered firearms.

    In Australia today, police can enter your house and search for guns, copy the hard drive of your computer, seize records, and do it all without a search warrant. It's the law that police can go door to door searching for weapons that have not been surrendered in their much publicized gun buy back program. They have been using previous registration and firearm license lists to check for lapses and confiscate non-surrendered firearms.

    The problem began with the Port Arthur (a Tasmanian resort) tragedy on April 28, 1996, when a crazed assailant opened fire and shot 35 people. Australians were shocked and the government reacted quickly. Draconian gun legislation was passed in the heat of the moment. There are three major political parties in Australia: the center right (Liberal Party), the socialist camp (Labor Party), and the ultra left (Australian Democratic Party) --- which tilted the balance of power toward stringent gun control at the expense of freedom.

    As a result of the ban, all semiautomatic firearms (rifles and handguns) are proscribed, including .22 caliber rabbit guns and duck-hunting Remington shotguns.

    Writing in The Gun Owners (Jan. 31, 2000), the newsletter for Gun Owners of America (GOA), former California State Senator H.L. Richardson writes: "They outlawed every semi-auto, even those pretty duck guns, the Browning A5 and the Remington 1100s. They even struck down pump shotguns: the Winchester model 12 and the Remington 870...Do you own a Browning BAR rifle? Banned. How about a Winchester Model 100? Out of luck, all semi-auto hunting rifles were outlawed as well. They didn't miss a one."

    Be that as it may, at a cost of $500 million, out of an estimated 7 million firearms (of which 2.8 million were prohibited), only 640,000 guns were surrendered to police. What has been the result? Same as in England. Like in Great Britain, crime Down Under has escalated.

    Twelve months after the law was implemented in 1997, there has been a 44 percent increase in armed robberies; an 8.6 percent increase in aggravated assaults; and, a 3.2 percent increase in homicides. That same year in the state of Victoria, there was a 300 percent increase in homicides committed with firearms. The following year, robberies increased almost 60 percent in South Australia. By 1999, assaults had increased in New South Wales by almost 20 percent.

    Two years after the ban, there have been further increases in crime: armed robberies by 73 percent; unarmed robberies by 28 percent; kidnappings by 38 percent; assaults by 17 percent; manslaughter by 29 percent, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

    And consider the fact that over the previous 25-year period, Australia had shown a steady decrease both in homicide with firearms and armed robbery --- until the ban.


    Australia, a semi-arid, isolated continent, and a vast nation-state, in many ways parallels the history of the United States. In the 1850s and 1860s, it had gold rushes and pioneering settlers, reminiscent of our own western migration. In World War I and World War II, it fought with the allies. Australia remained a subject of Great Britain until 1986, when the last ties with the British crown were dissolved. With only 19 million people, Australia has an impressive fauna that includes plenty of varmints, marsupials, dingoes (that wreak havoc on livestock), as well as large rats and other rodents. Yet, hunting has become prohibitively difficult for all but a handful of Australians with private lands and the usual connections.

    Now, the ban on firearms and the disarmament of ordinary Australians has left criminals free to roam the countryside as they please. Bandits, of course, kept their guns. Like in America, only the law-abiding, by definition, obey the law. Yet, the leftist Australian government has responded by passing more laws; in 1998 Bowie knives and other knives and items including handcuffs were banned.

    Licensing is difficult. Self and family protection is not considered a valid reason to own a firearm. The right to self-defense, like in Great Britain and Canada, is not recognized in Australia, Like Americans, Australians loved and possessed firearms --- that is until the ban. Freedom has been extinguished. A way of life has ended. Please, don't tell me it cannot happen here!

    Dr. Faria is the Editor-in-Chief of the Medical Sentinel. His e-mail is
    Originally published in the Medical Sentinel 2000;5(3):107. Copyright?2000 Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS)
     
  24. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    Even in their zombie movies they have to use cricket bats etc.. like in Shaun of the Dead. tsk tsk.
     
  25. Dr_B

    Dr_B member

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    I think you're dead-on with that statement. Its like 1984 with the telescreens and beetle-eyed men watching in some secret monitoring station. I was there in late 2010. Only in London, to be fair, but I was all over that city. I spotted cameras bolted to buildings, strapped to trees, etc. They're everywhere. You're being watched 24/7 pretty much unless you're in the bathroom.

    I saw exactly two police-persons, one man, one woman, the entire time I was there and they were in the same place. Neither was carrying a firearm. Each had a taser.

    While I was there, they were having problems in London with gangs of adolescents attacking people. Sort of a flash mob kind of thing; beat the snot out of someone picked at random and run away. The news was telling citizens to NOT fight back. If it happens to you, get all the info you can and report it to the police!

    The UK has a problem with attitude. They've been slowly snowed by their government into being dependent on a welfare state and politely swallowing regulation after regulation because they are told they'll be safer and more civilized. THAT is the root of their lack of access to firearms.
     
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