Quantcast
  1. THR Just moved.  See problems?  Make sure you're logged in and come to this thread and tell us about it!

    Dismiss Notice

Ultimate Bear Stopper

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by 94045, Nov 2, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 94045

    94045 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2018
    Messages:
    128
    Another post about pistols for bears got me thinking. What would be the ultimate bear stopping rifle?

    If you were on Kodiak with a deer down and a Big Coastie circling and woofing in the fog what would you most want in your hands.

    Would you want a traditional controlled round feed bolt rifle in .375 H&H?

    How about a Heym 89B Double in .450/400?

    Or how about something custom like a Browning BAR or BLR .300 Win Mag converted to .416 Ruger?

    Personally I would prefer a Ma Deuce but they are s little aggravating to lug around.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
    DannyLandrum and adcoch1 like this.
  2. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    3,888
    Location:
    Brainerd Minnesota
    12 gauge pump with Dixie IXL-DGS slugs
     
  3. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,180
    Location:
    Ca.
    How about a BAR converted to .416 Taylor? .358 Norma? I’ve always wondered if that was possible...
    :thumbup:

    Personally my guide gun .45/70 is enough for me to want should I be in coastal bear country...

    Stay safe!
     
    dcloco, Jinx0760 and JeffG like this.
  4. .308 Norma

    .308 Norma Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    1,384
    Location:
    SE Idaho
    The rifle I would most likely have in my hands would be the same rifle I used to put the deer down. That doesn't mean it's the rifle I would most want in my hands when there's "a Big Coastie circling and woofing in the fog," but it is the most likely because I'm not likely to carry two rifles on a deer hunt.
    Therefore, I'd go for a good, dependable 375 H&H. Or better yet, my old Model 70, 338 Win Mag because I already have it.:)
     
    Gordon, Jinx0760 and someguy2800 like this.
  5. cdb1

    cdb1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,627
    Location:
    Justin, TX
    .404 Jeffery because if I ever buy a rifle chambered for a cartridge more powerful than .338 WinMag it will be a .404 Jeffery. But I’m with .308 Norma. If I’m deer hunting I’ll be carrying a rifle chambered in a deer cartridge. Under the scenario represented I would have a guide since it’s Kodiak island and also because I’m not an intrepid Kilcher. I’d tell the guide, you lead, I’ll be BEHIND you the whole way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
    Gordon and horsey300 like this.
  6. JeffG

    JeffG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,214
    Location:
    NE Wisconsin
    I'll go with my .458 WM Zastava. Lottsa mozza there, so to speak...
     
    Gordon and js8588 like this.
  7. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    3,888
    Location:
    Brainerd Minnesota
    .308 Norma likes this.
  8. Whiterook808

    Whiterook808 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2017
    Messages:
    231
    Location:
    21.3069° N, 157.8583° W
    Mosin M44. If five rounds of 7.62x54r doesn't stop him I still have the bayonet.
     
    Dibbs, mpd61, armoredman and 2 others like this.
  9. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2010
    Messages:
    2,041
    Location:
    south Florida
    My only brother lives in the MatSu area -just about 30 miles north of Palmer and has lived a subsistence life style for many years with only game meat in the freezers... Where he hunts in the interior the bears are nowhere near as big coasties - but most of them have learned that a rifle shot means a feeding opportunity and can get aggressive about it... He tells me you don't hunt solo ever and because willow and aspen thickets are high and dense, if a bear is coming (hopefully only false charging) you can hear him - but can't see him (and won't until he gets close...).

    As a result, all of his hunts are with a 375 H&H, period (he has three of them - all bought used in-state over the years). That same rifle is used in open tundra for caribou for long shots -or for hunting moose up close in timber - and much in-between. He'll take a small black bear for roasts and stews but has never (yet) had to shoot a grizz. That 375 should be up to the job if it's ever needed.

    Me, I'm not a hunter (except for two-legged animals - and I've quit doing that...) - I'm a fisherman and live a world away, down in south Florida. My brother? He thinks salmon is what you feed your dogs...
     
  10. 94045

    94045 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2018
    Messages:
    128
    .416 Ruger is the same diameter at the case head and the body is the same diameter as the belt on the .300 Win Mag / .375 H&H / .416 Taylor just carriers that diameter all the way forward and retains the 3.34" overall length The .416 Ruger is factory loaded and would be as stronger cartridge than the Taylor as it has more capacity.

    I chose the .416 Ruger as I believe it is the largest practical cartridge in powder capacity and size for those actions without the sectional density and stability issues the .458 Win Mag has had (although newer bullet designs may have alleviated this).

    If you want an interesting read sometime read about the dismal failure the .458 was at its intro in Africa. It absolutely failed to penetrate on buffalo due to a lack of sectional density, to lightly constructed bullets and inadequate velocity to stabilize in flesh (tumbling with resulting loss of penetration). The sad thing was the very engineer that designed the cartridge tried to tell the Ad Men that it shouldn't be used on thick skin / dangerous game and nobody would listen and a few good men died as a result.
     
  11. caribou

    caribou Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,854
    Location:
    North West Alaska
    7.62x54r has always worked VERY well dropping Brown Bears, as does .308, 30-06......pretty hard to choose.
     
    Dibbs, BigBore44 and cheygriz like this.
  12. 94045

    94045 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2018
    Messages:
    128
    Good choice. After the .375 H&H the .404 Jeffrey is likely the most pleasant of the Classic African Dangerous Game Cartridges to shoot.

    I'm not ashamed to admit I'm to much of a whimp for the .416 Rigby I shot on a regular basis (although the CZ550 Lux has a good stock it's a little light) . The only three ADG Cartridges I have shot that I would consider are the .375 H&H (More pleasant than some .300's I've shot). The .404 Jeffrey (Definitely more pleasant than the one .338 I've shot) and the .450/400 NE but then the rifles I shot were proper weight for caliber with a proper stock design for recoil. A straight stock and light weight in a .338 Win Mag is a recipe for a Sadist. Definitely worse than the .416 Rigby I mentioned above.
     
  13. jeepnik

    jeepnik Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,865
    Location:
    SoCal
    Rapid follow up shots. Big slow moving bullet. Has been used on elephants.
    RvyHwmo.jpg
     
  14. Salmoneye

    Salmoneye Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,875
    Location:
    The West Coast Of New England
    Marlin .45-70 loaded with Hornady 350gr Round Nose stepping along at 2,000fps for a ME over 4,000 foot pounds...
     
    BigBore44 and JeffG like this.
  15. Kingcreek

    Kingcreek Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,998
    Location:
    at the center of my own little universe
    M60 with a couple of belts
     
  16. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    2,782
    Location:
    High up in the Rockies
    But you only get one shot. Then the medicals have to re-attach your shoulder.
     
  17. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    3,539
    Location:
    Fl panhandle
    For what I would be willing to actually carry? A marlin 45-70 or a 12 gauge autoloader with something really nasty.
     
  18. 94045

    94045 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2018
    Messages:
    128
    That's actually slightly weaker than the Factory .450 Marlin Load.
     
  19. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,180
    Location:
    Ca.
    I knew the Taylor and Norma mags would probably only need a new barrel and proper gassing to fit the BAR, but I don’t know if the gun would be battered to death by the increased recoil these rounds develop over the .338. I also didn’t know if the Ruger was a magnum bolt head sized round or larger, but if they’re the same size the Ruger rounds could also be a possibility for a simpler rebarreling job than adding a bolt head modification to it as well.

    The .458 just doesn’t have the ooomph to be super reliable on those big animals, (and neither would the .45/70), but they both seem to be used in Africa a lot. (Speaking of Lott, his .458 is much more effective at causing damage... on both ends of the gun :what:...

    Stay safe!
     
    adcoch1 likes this.
  20. tark

    tark Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,491
    Location:
    atkinson, ill
    Any good double rifle in 470 nitro express.
     
    Gordon likes this.
  21. Frostbite

    Frostbite Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    Messages:
    501
    Location:
    Québec
    If I was the deer hunter, as others have mentioned, I would probably have my deer rifle, a BAR in .270 Win with 150 grains power points. I would not feel undergunned in front of any bear. I might miss if the bear charged me though, it kind of gets someone nervous, I guess. The gun would not be faulty, I might. If I was fishing and carrying for defensive purpose, it would be my twelve gauge pump loaded with four Brenneke slugs followed by two 00 Buck 2.75 loads. If I ever get to the buckshot, it will be so close that penetration should be adequate.
     
    Phaedrus/69 likes this.
  22. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    11,408
    Location:
    Georgia
    022.JPG

    Winchester 70 SS Classic, 30-06 loaded with 220 gr Partitions. Those bear have been killed with 9mm and 223. There is no evidence that anything bigger than 30-06 loaded heavy works any better.
     
  23. Gordon

    Gordon Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    8,928
    Location:
    central Kali.
    When I was in that position, a couple times 30 and 35 years ago the first time with a. Ruger 77 .338 win with a Leupold 2-8 with post and the second time with a Pre 64 Wincherster Super Grade .375 with a 1.5-6 Zeiss with German heavy picket post. Bear was on the tag the first time so I was hoping
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  24. tactikel

    tactikel Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,093
    Location:
    Northeastern Illinois
    Ultimate .458 WM, second best .375 H& H, third 12 ga with slugs.
     
    JeffG likes this.
  25. DannyLandrum

    DannyLandrum Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2017
    Messages:
    439
    Most Alaskan hunting guides use a 12 ga slug gun, .45-70 (or .50 Alaskan) lever gun, or .375 HH mag, in my understanding,, and roughly in that order of popularity -- though all manner of chamberings and configs are used, of course. "Ultimate" is limited solely by weight (practicality) and recoil tolerance.
     
    JeffG likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice